54 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Red Shrike, on 24 January 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

We're not even off the first page, and there is already someone who feels threatened.

Ahem! Why do you think the term "e-peen" was invented?

[Zordicron]

So, a "sized hardpoints" and "class roles" with a hint of "weapon balance" all wrapped into one thread?

It's like forum nostalgia!

I wrote a suggestion for sized hardpoints long ago, but IMO PGI is not going to rework a fundamental game building block like that anymore. Maybe I am wrong, but the basic heatscale and mech building stuff really is locked down AFAIK based on Russ' comments about things of that nature.

I would love a Mechwarrior 3 style heat scale and a sized hardpoint system(man thats an oldie, goes all the way back to AC20's in MG slots on Catapults) as a means to stop the boating nonsense and giga alphas. But Russ has basically stated he isn;t going to go there ever again.

Here is a thread on sized system, but it isnt the original. Still way old though:

http://mwomercs.com/...zed-hardpoints/

[Bishop Steiner]

Agamemnon78, on 24 January 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

I´m in since Summer 2012. Right from the start. Played MWO for 2 years since on daily basis for hours.

You, PGI took this franchise and created a game with such an amazing bunch of variety and possibility. We all are gratefull for that.

But in the end, it all results in ever-identical giant mech-blobs, consisting of around 3 Mechchassis which are up-to-quirk-date and which are using mostly one single, sometimes 2 weapon-types.

It´s not whining.
Its an opinion out of my experience of 3,5 years of consistend MWO-playing.

Role-Warfare is nonexistent
Information-Warfare is nonexistent

The blessing your approach promised is your curse: Possibility and diversity.

The current incentives are misleading the course of the whole game.

Every single mechs only gets judged by those categories:
- can i boat something with it?
- do the quirks favor it even more?

You can turn virtually every chassis into something it never was meant to be.

Moreover, due to whichever reasons, you have two main-factions, one of which is generally much harder to win with and more expensive to buy and level. Units grab their pants and left. Usually you have to "pay" them, to join this side when you start another event.

From the viewpoint of our unit:
We lost inumerable members which could no longer cope with that lopsided approach.
The are burned out and frustrated.
On even terms, the chances of getting bashed stood clearly against us. To often.
Members left and joined IS-units, just to play IS-mechs. They have fun.
New members got all clan-Mechs levelled. Painful and near the limit of motivation.
They tried Thunderbolts, Jaegers and Dragons, Marauders and SEE, they were amazed at how much fun they are to play! Less heat-Problems, easy to brawl with, mostly slender design and thus harder to hit, Ballistic weapons which deserve the name and quirks to get your pants wet.


Usually at this point, the mono-opinional-forums-gods begin writing their "learn to play!" or "the usual whiny clanner"-sort of thing.
Please don´t. Its wasted on me.
I´m a fan of even chances and well played matches.
At the moment we are forced to play a style not favoured, just to grab those few percents of chance, if we want to win at all.

Stop reading if you consider yourself member of those all-knowing gods of mech-gaming.

All others:

Imagine!

- Only the heavies and assaults can carry LL and PPC, AC20 and big lurm-throwers

- LargeLasers do not do full damage from the start. Technically they are optimized to focus their "heat" at longer distances. So lets play with the idea of a LL making full-damage at 300m and above and the damage falls again from 9oo up.
--> No longer universal-laser-boats approaching LL blazing from 1300m and then entering a nice brawl.
You got long-range Firepower? Use it at longe range. You fear getting caught close up? Start using some small and medlaser as backup.
AS INTENDED!

- Tiny Light-mechs carrying giant Laser-weapons, even sometimes two of them --> ridiculous.

- All mechs beeing able to carry every module to fulfill every role is contraproductive

- All mechs beeing able to switch their laser in the slot x from small to large is contraproductive

Give lights a role! Let them combine with their big brethren!
--> they ought to have the best sensors.
--> give them a beacon for artillery/Airtstrike.
--> Only assaults should be capable of a command-console (perhaps built in from the start) and thus able to call in artillery. Assaults target the beacon and call arty.
Both got XP. Both are forced to play together.
--> only lights can NARC and TAG
--> they should not be the ones killing 6 mechs and going out nearly unscathed.
They are supporting scouts.
As it is, its the only "mechanized" game I know, where the fast and light class can easily outclass his heavier enemies.

Mediums and heavies fulfil the fast brawling-role or the occasional fast sniper.

All engines got a energy-limit.
Loading lasers needs energy. More lasers need more energy. Energy should be limited by the reactor.
You alpha with to many lasers? Got to wait longer for the recharge.

Categorize the slots into classes.
f.e. Energy-slots in 2-3 classes.
So you can switch a SLaser with a Medlaser, But no 3 MEdLasers for 2 LargeLasers.
Energy-limit allowing.

Give Clans some proper ballistic-weapons. One bullet. Done.
Even terms. Not more.
We already have the ******** hardpoints and the bigger target-surface.

All those proposals seem to range in the area which should be applicable.
Nothing really revolutional.
Shouldn´t be to complicated a programming-Einstein-skill to restrict some slots and give the player in the mechlab a simple text-feedback why its not possible to build 2 Largelasers into his tiny light-runner.

At the moment, and thats the plain truth, many players left the game and much more will follow, cause its
1. pointless to play, aside from the usual levelling
2. lopsided for 50% of the player-base (ok, its perhaps just 30% cause the rest isnt insane enough to play Clan)

Its sad, but at the beginning you said, that you wanted the Clans making FEEL different.
At the moment its exactly so.
You feel outclassed by chassis which should be evenclassed or which should be outclassed by YOU.
You (un?)intentionally took every aspect of the battle-mechanics so hard-fought balanced before the clan-invasion, and gave them aspects which made them inferior. Not different. Inferior in (too) many aspects. Not all (thank god!).

Your playerbase is bleeding away and new players quit as soon as they realize the plight they are in.

Go, take a look from above, outside the details and tiny follow-up-problems to follow-up-problems.
Start seeing the forest again, do not debate about single trees.

Many players will return, cause many players love Mechwarrior.

don't agree with all of this, but love the spirit it was posted in. A Mechwarrior game, not a Metawarrior game.

[Impyrium]

Same as you Bishop, can't agree with everything there but I can respect the drive. Reminds me of when I used to actively push for PGI to bring the game to its origins and genre more.

Simple fact is though, it's not going to change. Both because PGI has no interest in doing such, and also because in the many years MWO has now trundled on it has managed to generate a solid playerbase and sadly much of that playerbase likes it as it is, a competitive metafest, rather than what it could be.

[Navid A1]

I kinda understand the OP's frustration... but I disagree on most of his suggestions.

- Light mechs having "giant" lasers are more than common in BT... its their role. The adder has 2 "giant" PPCs

- Only lights can carry NARC/TAG?.... what?

- Large lasers are already at a disadvantage in a brawl (long burn time and long cooldown)

- Players leave because the game has nothing to offer. Its repetitive... no goal.

- Engines affecting cooldowns and energy is the worst... the Adder and Kitfox would be F*ed... i thought you were a clanner.


I kinda agree with sized hardpoints / classed weapons... for example that prevents people from placing PPCs in the torsos of a warhammer.

[sycocys]

Started out good, turned into a misguided clans are unplayable QQ.

GG, WP.

[patataman]

Agamemnon78, on 24 January 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

Every single mechs only gets judged by those categories:
- can i boat something with it?
- do the quirks favor it even more?

You can turn virtually every chassis into something it never was meant to be.

Worst problem imho in this game. You can build whatever you want; it's not even expensive to do so. It should take ridiculous amounts of money to customice a mech from stock to the "current meta build", and the limitations should be much harder. AC20 in a raven's arm? LOL It's true that some mechs are able to carry big weapons despite their low tonnage, like the urbie. But they should be an exception, something that makes them unique.

Agamemnon78, on 24 January 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

Moreover, due to whichever reasons, you have two main-factions, one of which is generally much harder to win with and more expensive to buy and level. Units grab their pants and left. Usually you have to "pay" them, to join this side when you start another event.

With this i can't agree. The pricing for IS and Clans is about the same once you take into account Endo, Ferro, XL engines...etc. Only the stock mech is cheaper. Do you see many mechs running a stock build? Clans can boat DHS for 1 less slot each, so heat should only be an issue if you carry too many weapons or too few HS, clan endo and ferro take half the slots, clan weapons weights less, clan XL engines don't kill you when one side torso explodes, SSRM6 boats. Sorry, but from wave 1 until last month, the clans had the tech advantage imho. And the IS didn't have the numerical advantage to compensate. Now the balance is better, idk if it favors the IS or clans, but the gap was greatly reduced since wave 1.

Let me tell you my first experience using clan tech. I purchased a mad cat for cbills, and played it with the stock loadout for the first match. I got 2 kills, several assists, 500 ish damage. I think i never was able to do something like that in an IS mech in the first match with a stock build.

Agamemnon78, on 24 January 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

Imagine!

- Only the heavies and assaults can carry LL and PPC, AC20 and big lurm-throwers

Sized hardpoints have been proposed many times. Fitting an AC20 in a MG hardpoint is LOL at best. But again, there are light mechs that carry big weapons in their stock loadouts. Imho the hardpoint inflation should be limited by the number of hardpoints AND tonnage. Take the panther, it carries 1 ppc stock, 7 tons, but with the current system, the 8z (3 energy hardpoints in the right arm) can carry 3 LPL in that arm. That's 21 tons in an arm for a 35 ton mech, it shouldn't even be able to stand still.

Agamemnon78, on 24 January 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

- LargeLasers do not do full damage from the start. Technically they are optimized to focus their "heat" at longer distances. So lets play with the idea of a LL making full-damage at 300m and above and the damage falls again from 9oo up.
--> No longer universal-laser-boats approaching LL blazing from 1300m and then entering a nice brawl.
You got long-range Firepower? Use it at longe range. You fear getting caught close up? Start using some small and medlaser as backup.
AS INTENDED!

This could be interesting, kind of like the ppc's, with an optimal range where the weapon deals max damage, if you shoot at a target that is closer, the damage is reduced progresively, same for targets beyond optimal range.

Agamemnon78, on 24 January 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

- All mechs beeing able to carry every module to fulfill every role is contraproductive

Yes. Plus modules are plainly unfair for new players.

Agamemnon78, on 24 January 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

Give lights a role! Let them combine with their big brethren!
--> they ought to have the best sensors.
--> give them a beacon for artillery/Airtstrike.
--> Only assaults should be capable of a command-console (perhaps built in from the start) and thus able to call in artillery. Assaults target the beacon and call arty.
Both got XP. Both are forced to play together.
--> only lights can NARC and TAG
--> they should not be the ones killing 6 mechs and going out nearly unscathed.
They are supporting scouts.
As it is, its the only "mechanized" game I know, where the fast and light class can easily outclass his heavier enemies.

Class != role. Scouting is not the only thing that light mechs can do (BT lore says so). Scouting is not even viable or relevant on most maps, if PGI starts doing bigger maps it will be, as polar highlands demonstrated. Another problem is the rewards. A scout that locates the enemy and transmits the information to the team ("They are in H7 moving south") gets just the scouting bonus. Or nothing if the enemies have ECM cover. If he chooses to use an UAV, not only does he have to take a big risk by getting closer, he's loosing money. Rewards should be based on victory/defeat with small bonuses for kills, assists etc.

About artillery and air strikes, i'd love to see them only available to the drop commander, from the map. An example of what i mean would be, a light with tag paints one spot where the enemy is, the commander opens the map and has a interactive marker in the spot where the tag is hiting the ground. He clicks the dot and an option to launch an arty appears for him. I think this would be the realistic aproach to arty, and more or less what you meant, right?

Agamemnon78, on 24 January 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

All engines got a energy-limit.
Loading lasers needs energy. More lasers need more energy. Energy should be limited by the reactor.
You alpha with to many lasers? Got to wait longer for the recharge.

Wouldn't it be better to remove the perfect instant convergence? A max reactor output makes sense from a technological point of view. But that won't help eliminate the pee-ka-boo meta, a laser boat could shoot a big alpha, then hide and just wait a bit longer before the next alpha.

Agamemnon78, on 24 January 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

Give Clans some proper ballistic-weapons. One bullet. Done.
Even terms. Not more.
We already have the ******** hardpoints and the bigger target-surface.

Target surface? My catapults and quickdraws send their regards.
Omnis can change their hardpoints. All my is mechs send their regards.
One bullet --> lower TTK. I'd rather use multiple bullets for the IS ballistic weapons. Again, don't forget the tonnage discrepancy, clan weapons weight less, and the omnipods make boating easier.

Agamemnon78, on 24 January 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

At the moment, and thats the plain truth, many players left the game and much more will follow, cause its
1. pointless to play, aside from the usual levelling
2. lopsided for 50% of the player-base (ok, its perhaps just 30% cause the rest isnt insane enough to play Clan)

I'd say those are not the only factors in play. Too many mechs compared to other content. Irrelevant CW. Playing the same 13 maps over and over and over and over. Only 3 game modes for the regular queue and 2 for CW. Leveling at least 3 variants for each chassis. Pricing. Boring laser meta. Small maps. Position at the time. The island. Other games. A player base with a high average age (more responsabilities in live, less free time)... etc.

Agamemnon78, on 24 January 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

Its sad, but at the beginning you said, that you wanted the Clans making FEEL different.
At the moment its exactly so.
You feel outclassed by chassis which should be evenclassed or which should be outclassed by YOU.
You (un?)intentionally took every aspect of the battle-mechanics so hard-fought balanced before the clan-invasion, and gave them aspects which made them inferior. Not different. Inferior in (too) many aspects. Not all (thank god!).

Now you know how a lot of IS players felt after the clan injection, when dires, timbers and crows outclassed everything else.

Another thing i miss a lot in this game is not feeling like i'm in the BT universe. There is no backstory, in CW being part of a faction means nothing, and only the IS/clan choice has any impact. The clans are using mercs (lolwut?). Planets don't matter. etc.

[MadcatX]

If a light mech has a huge weapon on it, it should at least really show it, such as the Hollander.




Ok, a little extreme.

[Galus Carmolius]

GreyNovember, the idea of lights carrying heavy weapons is an issue because in original game terms the mech would not have the space to carry such a weapon, its why a hunchback is able to carry AC 20. The whole design of the mech was based to hold an AC of that caliber on its shoulder. So, when you look at that hunch and look at a raven or a cheetah, its chassis is not suppose to hold up such weight, not to mention the recoil from the shot would theoretically shatter the joints and tear the synthetic muscle fibers in the mechs. the deal with certain boats like thunderbolts or timberwolves with laser vomits is that quirks are breaking the foundation of the mech itself.. thunderbolts too powerful that they are able to alpha 6-8 medium pulse 4-5 times before needing to cooldown from heat while timberwolves are almost useless for swiss-army builds they were intended to with lasers being their focal weaponry. Instead of making it increased heat for them, make it like it is with the gauss rifles, only able to fire so many at a time, like only 2 rifles at a time instead of the all four the direwolf can house. Doing this would make both sides have to think about their choices, while leaving the alpha button still useful in that it is a "forced" fire overide but the drop back to it is internal damage to the the engine or for a time your are lacking in energy and are only moving at 30 kph and cannot fire. It makes you have to weigh your tactical decision of "is it worth the risk or not".

[Agamemnon78]

Sure,

its a wall of text atm.
But to include all viable excemptions and relativization would surely blow the thread up.

I want to clarify on some matters:

- Its not about BEEING OP as Clan. This phase was terrible (even if funny at start), but it wasnt balanced during the first months of CW.
- The suggestions take lore as a rough starting point. Because many TT-elements are not implemented. You couldnt just take those which please you, without the other ones. f.e. convergence and randomized hit-chances.
- Sure, atm balace is pretty well between IS and Clans. But thats widely RELATIVE. In Mwo its a matter of some seconds to determine between life (with a yellow CT) and death. If you repetedly have to attack LL-Mobs, MEchs that seem to soak up damage like a spoon and still standing, loosing the first mech just after entering the gate due to LL-Hellfest with short duration and cooldown (nothing clans could mimick in any way), then entering brawl and realising that your center gets eaten wether you twist or not while the opponents often do not evenbother to turn the torso and just keep pulsing (while you are cooking your balls in override), then its not near balanced as it needs to be.

Sure against a PUG group in CW or even 2-3 small unit-groups, we mostly win (about 90-100%).
But not without a hard fight. Its never a simple steamroll.

IS-metablobs just steamroll in, bash the base and omega to win. Done.
If we stand against a 10-12 man IS-metablob (proposed they know how to position themsleves) they usually LL us to death from max Distance and the rest gets mopped up in the pulse-brawl.
Returnfire is mostly inefficent cause you have to chose the lower-lying lanes of movement and HEY, you got only ******-hardpoints with lasers hanging at level with your balls, while your head gets lighted up.
Chances to win are round about 20-30% at max.


We all love well-fought matches. If we lose a good fought match, we had fun. Cause fighting a good enemy in a fair fight is fun.

btw: The Clan-faction is not only "short staffed" because of the huge amount of IS-loving players, isnt it? There are enough players without any contact to lore. But most are chosing the IS-side. Sooner or later. Evidence? Coincidence?

Can someone link some Vids showing 12man Clan vs 12man IS-metablob winning more then 50% of lets say 20 matches?
Comparable teams. Not the 17.company of a huge come-join-all-in-merc-clan vs. the 1. guard-unit of a clan-unit (or elite-mercs playing clan).
Seriously. Would like to see some statistically valid evidence of fights between even-skilled teams.

Edited by Agamemnon78, 24 January 2016 - 11:37 PM.

[Mystere]

Agamemnon78, on 24 January 2016 - 11:36 PM, said:

Can someone link some Vids showing 12man Clan vs 12man IS-metablob winning more then 50% of lets say 20 matches?
Comparable teams. Not the 17.company of a huge come-join-all-in-merc-clan vs. the 1. guard-unit of a clan-unit (or elite-mercs playing clan).
Seriously. Would like to see some statistically valid evidence of fights between even-skilled teams.

It's neither a video nor 12v12. But, this sure stirred things up.

[Agamemnon78]

Sure, and it promted the usual expected reactions as well

[Scar Glamour]

Wonderful strange how noone ever came up with similar suggestions to enhance MWO experience before, OP. Oh, wait...

While I don't agree with all of it, surely, many of these things would be good to see in the game. Will we see it though? Somehow I doubt that.

[Johnny Z]

I always liked the sized hard point idea brought in, in some way.

That's so far down the list of what this game needs to add yesterday its funny.

[Khobai]

Sized hardpoints are a bad idea. Because sized hardpoints restrict large weapons. But large weapons ARNT the problem. People boating small weapons like lasers is the the problem. Restricting large weapons even more will just lead to even more boating of smaller weapons.

A better fix is just to nerf lasers for everyone.

Quote

Class != role. Scouting is not the only thing that light mechs can do (BT lore says so). Scouting is not even viable or relevant on most maps

Um so make it viable and relevant? A very simple way to make sensors relevant would be to reduce the damage of weapons by ~30% when firing at targets that arnt locked. If you have to get sensor locks to do full damage and lights are the best mechs at getting sensor locks suddenly scouting is a much more important role.

The role of scouting should also include way more than just finding enemy mechs and pressing R. Scouting should also include electronic/information warfare. Deceiving enemy sensors with fake radar contacts, cutting off enemy mechs from their sensor network, maybe even screwing with IFF so mechs no longer appear red or blue, just gray. Light mechs should be masters of controlling the flow of sensor information, both acquiring it, and deceiving/hindering the enemy from getting it.


They also need to redo the skill trees so each weight class has its own skill tree. That way they can emphasize the roles of each weight class and balance each weight class independently of the other weight classes.

And redo the module system by dividing modules into categories (weapon, defense, sensor, mobility, support, utility, universal, etc...) Youd only be able to equip modules that match their module slot, so like a mobility module could only go in a mobility module slot. Weight class and mech role would determine the combination of module slots each mech gets. For example, Assaults/Heavies would typically get more weapon/defense module slots while Mediums/Lights would get more mobility/sensor module slots. And Medium mechs would get the most universal slots since theyre supposed to be the most versatile weight class.


And the last part of role warfare is gamemodes. We need more open-ended gamemodes (i.e. not just skirmish or a variation of skirmish) that allow all four weight classes to excel at their specific roles. And also a gamemode that creates dependency on all weight classes so you cant win without a good mix of weight classes. Incorporating ticket-based respawn would also allow lights to be worth less than assaults because they would cost less tickets when you die (mechs would cost a number of tickets equal to their tonnage). So this nonsense of lights having to equal assaults in 1v1 combat can finally be put aside.

Edited by Khobai, 25 January 2016 - 08:15 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mystere, on 24 January 2016 - 11:57 PM, said:

It's neither a video nor 12v12. But, this sure stirred things up.

which is weird since not really sure how that "proved" anything

Khobai, on 25 January 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:

Sized hardpoints are a bad idea. Because sized hardpoints restrict large weapons. But large weapons ARNT the problem. People boating small weapons like lasers is the the problem. Restricting large weapons even more will just lead to even more boating of smaller weapons.



Um so make it viable and relevant? A very simple way to make sensors relevant would be to reduce the damage of weapons by 1/3rd when firing at targets that arnt locked.

The role of scouting should also include way more than just finding enemy mechs and pressing R. Scouting should also include electronic/information warfare. Deceiving enemy sensors with fake radar contacts, cutting off enemy mechs from their sensor network, maybe even screwing with IFF so mechs no longer appear red or blue, just gray.

actually, sized hardpoints are a good idea, they are just not a total fix on there own.

A lot of the "meta" builds shift precipitously if Stalkers aren't mounting large weapons in the arms anymore, or slots used for medium lasers on Black Knights and Warhammers aren't suddenly sprouting large lasers and ppcs.


But it absolutely needs to be viewed as PART of a process, not the whole "fix".

It also makes "Omnis" more omni compared to Battlemechs, as long as they don't have such restrictions.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 January 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

which is weird since not really sure how that "proved" anything


actually, sized hardpoints are a good idea, they are just not a total fix on there own.

A lot of the "meta" builds shift precipitously if Stalkers aren't mounting large weapons in the arms anymore, or slots used for medium lasers on Black Knights and Warhammers aren't suddenly sprouting large lasers and ppcs.


But it absolutely needs to be viewed as PART of a process, not the whole "fix".

It also makes "Omnis" more omni compared to Battlemechs, as long as they don't have such restrictions.

Yea that whole sized hard point thing in MW4 really annoyed me, when I found it on the Timber Wolf.... especially when combined with missile only slots in the ST's....

[Khobai]

Quote

actually, sized hardpoints are a good idea, they are just not a total fix on there own.

no theyre really not a good idea.

there is no need whatsoever to restrict large weapons in the current game. theyre not being abused. Are spiders/cicadas with PPCs really a problem? Not really. In actuality the game needs to encourage MORE large weapons to move people away from boating lasers.

sized hardpoints achieve the opposite of what the game needs, they discourage large weapons, and encourage even more boating. Cant do PPCs on a cicada anymore it has no large hardpoints guess I have to use x6 ISML derpa derp.


signature hardpoints are a far better idea. signature hardpoints would reward mechs for using their stock loadouts (warhammer gets a bonus for putting ppcs in its arms for example). but does it with a carrot rather than a stick. it doesnt force you to use large weapons, it encourages you to use them with bonus quirks. Signature hardpoints would also differentiate mechs way more than sized hardpoints ever could.

Quote

A lot of the "meta" builds shift precipitously if Stalkers aren't mounting large weapons in the arms anymore, or slots used for medium lasers on Black Knights and Warhammers aren't suddenly sprouting large lasers and ppcs.

You wanna get stalkers to not use large lasers in their arms? Take away their large laser quirks and balance weapons properly at the base level. Its that simple. PGI trying to use quirks to balance weapons is currently the biggest problem of all.

Edited by Khobai, 25 January 2016 - 09:24 AM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Russhuster, on 24 January 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

but he is right,.. an Raven carrying an AK20 is ridiculous and and yet seen, there are just the quirk buckets left

Wubbolts, wubbknights Wubbmasters rule and above all the 45 Ton Atlas called blackjack
Iam just waiting the BJ getting 100 Ton weapon capacity - in an 45 ton mech

The feeling of Battletech has been destroyed utterly - This isnt a game anymore worth to support

MWO isnt an athmospheric BT-game at all anymore, just a comon mecha-shooter

You can take my AC20 Raven I've been playing since closed beta from my cold dead hands sir.

Look, there's a place for silly builds and mech lab. However, for a battletech feel, I think a random 3025 stock mech mode would probably be ideal. Each mech has it's unique loadout and role. Plus 3025 tech is actually pretty well balanced (makes sense considering they built mwo without tech level 2 trash in closed beta).

[Khobai]

Quote

but he is right,.. an Raven carrying an AK20 is ridiculous and and yet seen, there are just the quirk buckets left

You realize theres a stock Urbanmech with an AC20 right? And it weighs 5 tons less than the Raven.

There is NOTHING wrong with an AC20 raven. This game has tons of problems but thats not one of them.

Again sized hardpoints would only punish bad builds like this. And encourage more laser boating...