65 replies to this topic

[jjm1]

The Shadowcat SHC-P.

Am I wrong in thinking this mech is deadweight? I have been swapping omnipods and weapons around for a few days and only one build broke the 400 dmg barrier first time I used it (twin ERPPC).

I really want a single gauss mobile sniper build to work but it doesn't because gauss just isn't good enough.

One ton of ammo = 10 shots
1 shot = 10 damage

So I'm already capped at 400-500 damage with everything else including some armor stripped. (I usually hang on to ECM for dear life)

This assumes I'm within the gauss's optimal range of 660, at this range the Shadowcat can and will likely be killed by anything that sees it.

I've had lights run up on my position, I've managed to hit them head on with the gauss and then they have circled and outright killed me very easy. So I can't even defend my own position let alone my teams.

I've spent well over a ton of ammo on single heavy mechs and they seem to just shrug it off.

If I break the 200 dmg barrier make one kill (steal) and survive then it was a good match.

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I've had really good matches with it, where I've sat high and really crapped on the other teams state of zen, but I always felt like they were a losing team to begin with if they cant even try to spot you.

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So do I suck for wanting this mech to be half dangerous? I don't think Gauss itself needs a buff per se because I also use two of them on a DWF and that feels right. I think small specialist mechs need some powerful quirks to make them viable. The Shadowcat already has some Gauss quirks, and I'm using a maxed c-gauss cool-down module, but I could just as easily go without as it makes so little difference.

IMO what would fix it is one or a combination of:

• More than 10 shots per ton. 100 points of damage in this game isn't that much unless its delivered all at once.
  
• Huge ballistic speed increase. Currently it feels like firing a cannon ball from a sailing ship, mech's can take a step back and it can miss. Personally I would make the gauss a hitscan weapon with a smoke tracer effect, sort of like an actual rail gun. Its already limited by its charge and cool-down times.
  
• Optimal range increase. Because 660 on maps like polar is basically face to face and a very quick death. Further away and that 10 points shrinks into ammo wastage. Might as well ERLL.
  
• Straight up damage increase perk. I can hear the purists scream, but this is kinda the one thing that will make it work as sniper support IMO.

I've seen other comments on the Shadowcat that desired the ability to strip jump jets and MASC. While this should probably be the case, I'd personally like to keep them. The problem is JJs and MASK on this mech will rarely ever win battles against raw firepower. I think it would be better if they stayed rather than ripped out to make another weapon boat.

Don't get me started on its machine guns. I tried using them I really did. I think maybe I killed a heatsink or two.

[Chuck Jager]

Pretty sure the damage is 15, and the fall rate is not as harsh as lasers.

[MechWarrior849305]

Sh!tCats are as they'r called - Sh!t. That's all about it. Use 3xER-LLs, grind in CW - the best way to master it... and sell rite after

Edited by Bukkakechans flying futapantsu, 23 January 2016 - 01:28 AM.

[Duke Nedo]

I found these quite OK and of they ever receive a new pod so that it can mount 4-5 E they will become good.

Had most success with 2 x cLPL and ecm, that's the equivalent of 3 x is erll. If it had been able to fit 5 x cmpl, or 4 x cmpl+missiles it would be good imo.

[Paigan]

Bukkakechans flying futapantsu, on 23 January 2016 - 01:27 AM, said:

Sh!tCats are as they'r called - Sh!t. That's all about it. Use 3xER-LLs, grind in CW - the best way to master it... and sell rite after

SHC will never be a good brawler or small assault or some other form of "pure damage dealer".
But if one's horizon goes beyond brainless brawling, they can be really good. I recently started playing intensively with them again and it happens more than once that I have >500 damage and >2 kills (mind you in PUG, not carried by a team).

If you use a mech as what it's designed for, news flash, it can be pretty good.

Edited by Paigan, 23 January 2016 - 01:48 AM.

[MechB Kotare]

Actually its quite viable in combination of Terrain, JJs, Close range, and SRM6s. Once you expose yourself to whatever enemy tho... you are f'd. So yeah.

3x cERLL or 2x cLPL + cERMlas. Wish you could strip at least some JJs from it. Same as summoner. Its a fun mech tho, and good player can make it work.

As For P variant, i'm using from time to time 2x cLPL and 6x Mach. G. Just for fun...

Edited by MechB Kotare, 23 January 2016 - 01:51 AM.

[Kuritaclan]

jjm1, on 22 January 2016 - 11:37 PM, said:

So do I suck for wanting this mech to be half dangerous?

The Shadowcat out of my view is not a threat to lights and or mechs of the same weight class. And don't ask for punching ahead of it's tonnage. It is just not usable for duell, as of what i noticed, when i played around with it. As you said you can't compete with raw firepower.

Also the Gauss eats to much of the rare loadout tonnage. I ripped it of and don't use any kind of ballistics on this mech. They weigh too much to use them with secondary weapons.

However the mech in its role of a long range harasser does a "good" job compared to the level of threat a fridge (ICF) has.

Duke Nedo, on 23 January 2016 - 01:40 AM, said:

I found these quite OK and of they ever receive a new pod so that it can mount 4-5 E they will become good.

Had most success with 2 x cLPL and ecm, that's the equivalent of 3 x is erll. If it had been able to fit 5 x cmpl, or 4 x cmpl+missiles it would be good imo.

Well to be good it needs somewhat like 6E Hardpoints? Every Cicada Jenner ACH and what note has 6E and are can sustain them more or less. But the 45t clan mechs seem like do get the short end of the stick.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 23 January 2016 - 01:54 AM.

[adamts01]

Kuritaclan, on 23 January 2016 - 01:51 AM, said:

The Shadowcat out of my view is not a threat to lights and or mechs of the same weight class.

3xStreak6 with artemis and 2ML is pretty nasty against lights, and anything else late game.

[TheCharlatan]

I may be crazy, but i really like going dual AC2/UAC2 on it. Plenty of ammo, great suppression.
And can also poptart (you basically pogostick, using MASC to never lose momentum)!
Just become the buddy of an assault or heavy mech, shoot at what he shoots, give him ECM, reap rewards.
And it's really fun to use.

More solid build is 2xLPL (can add a ERML if you like), though... but i find it boring.

[Kuritaclan]

adamts01, on 23 January 2016 - 02:05 AM, said:

3xStreak6 with artemis and 2ML is pretty nasty against lights, and anything else late game.

Well if you start with streaks the SCR is the top notch, and to compete with it you need more that 3 SSRM6s and 2ML. So no for this job the SHC would be a worse version of it. I don't think that the SHC ever can do this job, even if you give it the Hardpoinsts for it. Also the SHC doesn't have the speed for it. I rather go hunt lights with my IFR than with something like the SHC.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 23 January 2016 - 02:20 AM.

[Russhuster]

the shadowCat suffers as most Clan mechs from a mixture of fixed interior no significant payload (16 tons for a 45 ton mech are simply to puny) and paper AR

In its weight class the SHC has opponents like the Blackjack,.. and can in no way keep up with an overquirked godmode bucket like thw BJ
The ridiculous small load capacity forces the SHC in the energy weapon section where the mech simply provides to few hardpoints through all omnipod variations plus the recent heatsink nerf makes even a halfway usable energy build next to unplayable as a valid opponent

The hardcoded jump jets as well as the in its actual state next to useless MASC eating up to much badly needed space and tonnage

So in facit concideratio it leaves to be a chassis that could have potential with 4 - 6 tons more payload and a broader omnipod vaiation what will not hapen, so its just another dust catcher in the mech hangar until PGI is considering a inteligent overworking of every chassis with individual ( chassis concerned ) overlooking of the dead nerfed C mechs

But that will happen exactly three days after hell is frozen so.. good bye ShadowCat

Edited by Russhuster, 23 January 2016 - 02:42 AM.

[adamts01]

Kuritaclan, on 23 January 2016 - 02:18 AM, said:

Well if you start with streaks the SCR is the top notch, and to compete with it you need more that 3 SSRM6s and 2ML. So no for this job the SHC would be a worse version of it. I don't think that the SHC ever can do this job, even if you give it the Hardpoinsts for it. Also the SHC doesn't have the speed for it. I rather go hunt lights with my IFR than with something like the SHC.

I wan't comparing it to the Stormcrow. But if you want to pitch a 45 tonner up against possibly the best 55 tonner in the game we can play that game. ECM, it's awesome. Some of the best jump jets in the game also let it keep up with good lights MUCH better depending on the terrain. Not to mention, those jump jets let it pop tart over ledges and friendlies to get a lot more shots in than the Stormcrow can. In an open field, yes, the Stormcrow will absolutely eat the Shadowcat alive. But in that same field, the streak Summoner will eat a Streakcrow alive, with all it's extra armor and quirks. In an actual map with terrain, the Shadowcat can give the Stormcrow a run for it's money.

[ChapeL]

Apart from the Stormcrow and Nova (which has many problems on its own) all clan mediums are over specialized, fragile little things that get wiped out if they are found outside of their prefered environnement much like giant pandas and koalas. Imagine Shadow Cats and Ice Ferrets on a National Geographics cover...

Plainly, you can make them work but it requires alot of work; You have to remain in their very narrow mission profile and have to be very good at it to get anywhere.

I found myself doing much better in a Vindicator at 45 tons than in a shadow cat but I have seen people play them exceptionally well.

edit: We needed a trooper medium like the Huntsman much more than the Kodiak IMO ( there enough agenda pushing for one topic )

Edited by ChapeL, 23 January 2016 - 02:52 AM.

[beerandasmoke]

The 3xSSRM6Streak build is a lot of fun. With the JJs you can poptart people with the streaks making it a different playstyle than the streakcrow.

[adamts01]

ChapeL, on 23 January 2016 - 02:50 AM, said:

Apart from the Stormcrow and Nova (which has many problems on its own) all clan mediums are over specialized, fragile little things that get wiped out if they are found outside of their prefered environnement

Except for the tier 1 Clan mechs, they're all goofy little things that take a special kind of person to play well.

[jjm1]

Chuck Jager, on 23 January 2016 - 01:18 AM, said:

Pretty sure the damage is 15, and the fall rate is not as harsh as lasers.

Your right it is 15. Even with a shallower damage decay it still feels like its a non-option next to lasers due to the tonnage it requires to have just one of them.

shame

In other news, I just bought a Pirates bane and (stock load-out) blew away my hard earned Shadowcat record first try. Its just not right.

[jjm1]

TheCharlatan, on 23 January 2016 - 02:10 AM, said:

I may be crazy, but i really like going dual AC2/UAC2 on it. Plenty of ammo, great suppression.
And can also poptart (you basically pogostick, using MASC to never lose momentum)!
Just become the buddy of an assault or heavy mech, shoot at what he shoots, give him ECM, reap rewards.
And it's really fun to use.

More solid build is 2xLPL (can add a ERML if you like), though... but i find it boring.

Yeah tried the dual UAC2, wasn't bad. Did quite a bit of damage thanks to ECM. The random jamming gets on my nerves after a while though, maybe reliability perks for some mechs that can only carry one or two UACs and nothing else?

I'm like you, I find laser boats get a bit boring. I like higher skill based weapons, but they need a pay-off or else whats the point.

[Yosharian]

SHADOW CAT SHC-PRIME 36 18 18 1.00 43 18 2.39 15,728 36,764 04:18:30
Average damage: 436

Yeah... this mech isn't bad at all. It's definitely low on hardpoints, though. That's why you equip heavy lasers on it. That's an absurd average damage for a medium (for me anyway). It's literally the highest average damage I have on any mech I own. (Note: solo queue)

If you look at what this mech is good at, versus what it's bad at:

Advantages:
- Very good at climbing obstacles/ascending hills
- Very high hardpoints
- Extremely good poking ability using MASC + skill

Disadvantages
- Relatively low tonnage due to jumpjets/MASC
- Low number of hardpoints
- Relatively poor hitboxes - very easy to hit CT
- Relatively poor structure quirks for legs/arms, compared to BJ for example (a mech I frequently come up against - the other being the Quickdraw)

So what gets you killed or makes you ineffective in this mech:

Trying to brawl, e.g. with SRMs
**** hitboxes, torso energy mounts, easily blown-off arms: dead or weaponless mech

Trying to equip ballistics like gauss/UAC5
**** tonnage, low damage: **** damage

What makes you a 700 damage-a-round monster pimp:

2xLPL or 3xERLL
Great hardpoint locations, great poking ability: uber damage

6 jumpjets and MASC
Float about the map using obstacles to gain an advantage (MASC allows you to maintain full speed while running over pebbles and hopping over rocks) and using high sniper roosts to blast away at enemies who don't know you're there or who can't shoot you back: alive mech

That's about it really. If you watch some of Sean Lang's videos you'll get a better idea of how to pull ridiculous damage in this mech.

Now that said, I completely get that some of you are frustrated because you can't run gauss or ballistics or play it as a brawling striker. It's definitely a niche mech. That niche just happening to be lasers.... Yeah.

Edited by Yosharian, 23 January 2016 - 03:55 AM.

[Steve Pryde]

With removable jump jets and masc u would have enough tonnage for a gauss+laser build just like in mw4. But yeah, PGI...

[Russhuster]

I liked the shadowCat.... very but its just not competetive against the IS mechs in its weight class like BJ etc.....

Quote

Now that said, I completely get that some of you are frustrated because you can't run gauss or ballistics or play it as a brawling striker. It's definitely a niche mech. That niche just happening to be lasers.... Yeah.

yeah and with the last heat sink nerf energy builds are even more crap to play on clan side
and the SHC just has not the tonnage for some more heatsinks to compensate the braindead heatnerf

so again,.. Thanks for another nerfed to death mech chassis PGI ..and still

goodbye ShadowCat

Edited by Russhuster, 23 January 2016 - 04:06 AM.