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My Ideal Mwo State (Part 2 Of 2)

balance Infotech

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Poll: Balance changes (25 member(s) have cast votes)

How would you like ECM to change?

  1. Unchanged (90m jamming radius, 75% sensor reduction effect) (13 votes [52.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 52.00%

  2. Pre-Dec2015 state (180m jamming radius, 75% sensor reduction effect) (2 votes [8.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.00%

  3. Compromise (120-150m jamming radius (F*** LURMS! =P), 50-65% sensor reduction effect) (10 votes [40.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 40.00%

Do you like Infotech (sensor, targeting, info-sharing) changes to improve Role Warfare in MWO?

  1. Sensor ranges vary by weight class (11 votes [23.40%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.40%

  2. Target Acquisition Rates by target profile (19 votes [40.43%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 40.43%

  3. Target Information Sharing by distance/LOS to nearest teammates (14 votes [29.79%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 29.79%

  4. None of the above (3 votes [6.38%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.38%

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#1 Onimusha shin

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Posted 24 January 2016 - 07:05 PM

Wall of Text 2!!!

Going on, I’d like to address the InfoTech aspect we saw in PTS1 & PTS2. It was generally a good idea to have varying sensor ranges according to weight classes or even from chassis to chassis. However, where PGI/Paul messed up was when they tied the laser ranges and hence damage to target locks or lack of them. In lore, it generally was the case that certain mechs were more suited for scouting because they had specialized electronics for doing so, while some are built as command mechs and etc.

Looking back at the previous PTS sessions that led up to the big rebalance pass on 1st Dec 2015, I liked how the sensor range ideas, semi-tied in with how Kanajashi’s information warfare ideas (see here and here) was suggested.

Basically, Kanajashi advocated that,

  • Smaller mechs have generally smaller profile sizes and hence should enjoy an increased stealth profile and thus slower radar detection.


  • Conversely, larger mechs should be more easily detected due to their size.




  • Kanajashi also mentioned that stealth quirks, both positive and negative, can be given to mechs that over-/under-perform compared to the baseline of their respective weight classes. While it is a feasible suggestion, given how the balance is still rather tender at this early point of the rebalance pass, I’d be more inclined to see if any truly OP chassis may appear.

In fact, PGI attempted to implement the above concepts to by way of changes to Target Acquisition Rates, Sensor Ranges and Target Information Sharing in PTS2 in the following manner.

Sensor Range
All ‘Mechs start with a baseline Sensor Range of 500m. Through the application of Sensor Range Quirks on a per-variant basis, individual variants can receive an increase to their baseline Sensor Range.

Post-Quirk Sensor Ranges will generally fall into the value regions listed below, according to weight class:
  • Light ‘Mechs: ~900m Sensor Range.
  • Medium ‘Mechs: ~800m Sensor Range.
  • Heavy ‘Mechs: ~700-750m Sensor Range.
  • Assault ‘Mechs: ~500-650m Sensor Range.
Target Acquisition Rate
  • The Target Acquisition Rate for all ‘Mechs during this test phase is 0 seconds.
  • Target Acquisition Rate can be quirked on a per-variant level, but there are no Target Acquisition Rate Quirks in place for this test phase.
  • Target Acquisition Rates are affected by ECM.
  • The Target Acquisition Delay caused by ECM for all ‘Mechs during this test phase is 3 seconds.
Target Information Sharing
  • Target information sharing is now based on the distance between the target and the first teammate, then from the distance of that teammate to all other teammates.
Looking back at the above suggestions, some may believe these changes to be too drastic and difficult for PGI to implement. However, I posit that the sensor range difference between the light mech class to the other weight classes should be more drastic than a mere 100m difference. This gives more meaning to mechs that are suited more for scouting, for eg, the LCT-1V or the SDR-5V which have limited weapon hardpoints. This should be on top of high rate of fire (ROF) weapon quirks to make them relevant in meta game of putting up adequate damage per second (DPS) output.


ECM (Electronic Counter-Measures equipment) aka Jesus Box

Moreover, I personally find it annoying and silly that a light or medium mech without ECM, is instantly detected on the radar if they are not under cover, making it difficult to send a flanking force to blindside an enemy position, thus making the deathball mechanic far more prevalent than necessary in MWO. This also makes ECM mechs with good DPS like the Artic Cheetah (ACH), Hellbringer (HBR) and possibly the ECM Griffin variant (GRF-2N) far more useful than should be necessary, in terms of wrecking havoc on enemy positions undetected.

Mcgral18 has written a lengthy rebalance post on weapons and equipment which I shall not delve into. However, I want to take into account what he and Kanajashi has suggested, ie. a reduction of the sensor jamming field that ECM provides to all enemy mechs at ALL ranges. Currently on the live MWO server, the effective sensor range on all mechs is 800m. ECM jams that range down 200m, by applying a multiplier of 25%. This means that ALL ECM-equipped mechs will not even be detectable at beyond 200m. This is very much game-breaking

Mcgral18 suggested that the jamming value be brought down to 50% while Kanajashi suggested 35%. I’m personally leaning towards 35% to 40% as it makes more sense that you can only detect an ECM-equipped mech the closer you get to it. So a scout light mech with 1000m sensor range would only be able to target an ECM mech at say 350-400m.

However, the ECM absolute jamming (sounds like a heavy metal band concert, because, all that ‘noise’!) field radius is currently set at 90m. Depending on how the sensor range and ECM jamming changes turn out, I’m inclined to increase that radius to 120m to 150m. This is a personal preference and arbitrary, though somewhat based on assault weight class sensor range values after factoring in the proposed 35-40% ECM jamming value change. Also, I would prefer the absolutely jamming field to not be so small that LRMs will be effective against non-ECM mechs, which would make taking ECM mechs a strong preference over non-ECM mechs. LRMs are not meta weapons and shouldn’t be encouraged.

While this exposes the slowest assaults to backstabbing attempts by ECM mechs, most assault mechs mount enough firepower to demolish a careless light/medium mech. However, if you have difficulty dealing with a single backstabbing light/medium mech, do refer to the more basic piloting guides available. I will also be working on an article on this in future. Moreover with in-game VOIP and text chat, the besieged pilot should be able to send out an SOS, even if not in time, would alert his team to a potential backstab from their team's rear.

Information Warfare

Lastly, WRT Information Warfare, this next idea is likely to be harder to implement if PGI has not coded this for friendly mechs. Namely, information can only be shared with your teammate, if Line of Sight (LOS) between the two friendly mechs is maintained while one of the two mechs acquires or holds a target lock. This LOS mechanic is actually in place between two opposing mechs but doesn't account for changing how targeting information is relayed to your teammates.

Right now, as long as a friendly mech has an enemy mech in its sights within its sensor range not under enemy ECM cover, targeting info will be acquired eventually after maintaining LOS, upon which, this info on the enemy mech is instantly shared with all your teammates. What I propose to change is the method which this targeting info is shared with your teammates, namely, requiring LOS with your teammates in order to share this info.

However, this idea is something I conceived to prepare the game for the introduction of C3 command & slave equipment. It's not something critically needed and may increase the death-ball mechanic further. Also, PGI coded Target Information Sharing (TIS) delays according to distance instead of LOS. It’s an acceptable placeholder until they can do the LOS version I proposed. In fact, my LOS version, if successfully coded and implemented, can work along with the TIS version that PGI has tried in PTS2. And future C3 equipment introduction can circumvent or reduce such TIS delays.

Please let me know what are your thoughts, and if you think this is more viable. IMO, the reason why PGI failed to make this concept materialize was because of Ghost Laser Damage being linked to target lock requirement, which complicates things even further.

Edited by Onimusha shin, 24 January 2016 - 07:43 PM.


#2 jay35

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Posted 26 January 2016 - 09:25 AM

Quote

It was generally a good idea to have varying sensor ranges according to weight classes or even from chassis to chassis


Eh, not really. The "infotech" is actually fine how it is now, barring a few minor tweaks to things like TCs and the ComConsole, and perhaps the addition of Active and Passive radar modes. But when you start dicking around with different ranges for different mechs it all becomes too arbitrary, forced, and unnecessary complex, which leads to gameplay that is frustrating and people burning out faster or risking losing new players who simply can't be bothered to get into a game where their stuff doesn't work consistently as well as everyone else's in the match simply because they chose a chassis that others didn't so now they can't acquire a target properly or whatever, due to the random negative quirk nonsense we saw in PTS 1 & 2.

I'm glad they ditched all of that and hopefully it never comes back.

What is needed foremost is actual game modes beyond team deathmatch, with actual objectives that matter and which provide the only win conditions (respawn mechanics for mechs/players, while teams battle to do things like CTF, Payload, VIP Escort, etc), so that the entirety of maps gets utilized instead of everyone just meeting in the middle (or other well known spot) for a brawl. And along with proper game modes comes the inherent inclusion of roles because specific chassis will excel at specific roles within those game modes even without PGI monkeying with forcing mechs into roles with negative quirks or other unnecessary mechanics. Just let the mechs take their natural roles based on their existing stats.
Less heavy-handedness, more natural fits for mechs.

When you're down to screwing around with sensor ranges, it's time to buy a clue and realize there are bigger-picture and more natural ways to create whatever differentiation and depth you're really seeking.

Edited by jay35, 26 January 2016 - 09:27 AM.


#3 Jables McBarty

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Posted 26 January 2016 - 09:38 AM

I voted for compromise on the ECM just so I could submit my vote, but I don't really care about it--it won't make or break my game as if I'm boating LRMs I bring TAG, and if I'm scouting I use VOIP.

I really like the different radar profiles and sensor ranges; kind of meh about the TIS with distance and not at all a fan of LOS. Might as well be communicating with visual telegraphs.

As for what Jay35 said...yes we want and need more depth, but this sounds like an easy and logical change to emphasize role warfare.





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