- Hard rock-paper-scissors balancing, for example long-range-direct-fire always beats brawling always beats indirect-fire (LRM etc.) always beats long-range-direct-fire and so on. Each subcategory will have its own meta though, but at least there are more varied builds overall. This could make the game feeling less of a sim and more gamey which could be bad.
- Make the game non competitive such as by introducing PvE (section) where there is little pressure for performing as best as possible. You could always ignore the leaderboards but when other people depend on you, it's hard to not take the best.
- Vary the environments themselves. This makes the most sense and PGI have been certainly trying to do this up till now but the results are not that remarkable. Why?
Could You Really Complain That The Meta Sucks?
#1
Posted 24 January 2016 - 10:03 PM
#2
Posted 24 January 2016 - 10:07 PM
Its fire all the things. Dance like a prancy unicorn and somehow twist away 90 damage every 3 seconds.
Game has no real battletechy, mech battle feel. No real heat management feel to it, nothing. Just a call of duty, fire everything all at once all the time kinda gameplay.
PVE would be cool, but given the fact that im sure the AI is just going to lolpha us in the CT, it wont be that much fun.
THis game would do well to get a CoF bloom based on how many weapons we fire, the less weapons fired at once, the less bloom we get. Some kind of Aim time delay as well, to represent the mech's targeting computer sighting in the guns and getting them to the proper convergeance.
Maybe not alot of OTM bloom like in tank games, but some bloom and CoF like Armored Warfare, and a mechanic that slows overall firing down would be fantastic.
#3
Posted 24 January 2016 - 10:10 PM
the more important question is how much better is the so called 'meta' than other builds.
Edited by LordNothing, 24 January 2016 - 10:15 PM.
#4
Posted 24 January 2016 - 10:11 PM
Hit the Deck, on 24 January 2016 - 10:03 PM, said:
- Hard rock-paper-scissors balancing, for example long-range-direct-fire always beats brawling always beats indirect-fire (LRM etc.) always beats long-range-direct-fire and so on. Each subcategory will have its own meta though, but at least there are more varied builds overall. This could make the game feeling less of a sim and more gamey which could be bad.
- Make the game non competitive such as by introducing PvE (section) where there is little pressure for performing as best as possible. You could always ignore the leaderboards but when other people depend on you, it's hard to not take the best.
- Vary the environments themselves. This makes the most sense and PGI have been certainly trying to do this up till now but the results are not that remarkable. Why?
Yes, SOMETHING will always be tops.
The Issue, in MWO, has traditionally been the divide between that something, and everything else. For that, there is no need, and no excuse.
I would have no issue, if Laservomit (or insert FotM here) was option 1a.
As long as we had some choices that comprised 1b.
Problem is with MWO, we go straight from option 1, the Meta of the Moment, to option rank 5 or 6, everything else really sucks in comparison. Not sorta sucks, not "well, this is good, but pewpew is better".
No, it's THIS IS THE ONE TRUE WAY, AND ALL ELSE IS META APOSTASY.
See the difference?
Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 January 2016 - 10:12 PM.
#5
Posted 24 January 2016 - 10:23 PM
Bishop Steiner, on 24 January 2016 - 10:11 PM, said:
The Issue, in MWO, has traditionally been the divide between that something, and everything else. For that, there is no need, and no excuse.
I would have no issue, if Laservomit (or insert FotM here) was option 1a.
As long as we had some choices that comprised 1b.
Problem is with MWO, we go straight from option 1, the Meta of the Moment, to option rank 5 or 6, everything else really sucks in comparison. Not sorta sucks, not "well, this is good, but pewpew is better".
No, it's THIS IS THE ONE TRUE WAY, AND ALL ELSE IS META APOSTASY.
See the difference?
This. PGI doesn't seem to understand that to get rid of a problematic meta you have to buff up the other options to par, not nerf one into the ground. RIP the LRMaggedon, RIP poptarts, RIP MGs. Just waiting for them to drunkenly nerf lasers so the cycle can start all over again.
#7
Posted 24 January 2016 - 10:27 PM
Squirg, on 24 January 2016 - 10:23 PM, said:
Both could certainly work.
Wolfways, on 24 January 2016 - 10:23 PM, said:
(I still won't use meta)
That depends on what you had been using before
#9
Posted 24 January 2016 - 11:02 PM
Edited by LordNothing, 24 January 2016 - 11:05 PM.
#11
Posted 25 January 2016 - 02:41 AM
And it is sad to see mutilated 'mechs, who lost all their individuality.
Obviously, there always will be meta. I probably want it shifted from alpha strike one-button loadouts to two-three buttons diverse loadouts.
I believe this can be achieved with 1) heat management balance - more dissipation, less capacity 2) zonal quirks - quirk work only in certain mech location for certain amount of weapons (amount limitation because some mechs have too many hardpoints in same location)
And no more of this stupid quirks for weapon range, beam duration etc. Buff/nerf weapons themselves.
At least this would be a start.
#12
Posted 25 January 2016 - 02:52 AM
#13
Posted 25 January 2016 - 03:05 AM
Bishop Steiner, on 24 January 2016 - 10:11 PM, said:
The Issue, in MWO, has traditionally been the divide between that something, and everything else. For that, there is no need, and no excuse.
I would have no issue, if Laservomit (or insert FotM here) was option 1a.
As long as we had some choices that comprised 1b.
Problem is with MWO, we go straight from option 1, the Meta of the Moment, to option rank 5 or 6, everything else really sucks in comparison. Not sorta sucks, not "well, this is good, but pewpew is better".
No, it's THIS IS THE ONE TRUE WAY, AND ALL ELSE IS META APOSTASY.
See the difference?
That's not true at all
Pit a max laser vomit vs a 6 CUAC 5 Dire and it will shred that laser guy in less than it can recharge for a second shot.
Laser meta is only for the peek and poke play, which is of course what happens in open maps, like the new one, but some maps cater more to brawling and a laser stands absolutely no chance at that vs an auto-cannon
#14
Posted 25 January 2016 - 03:32 AM
#15
Posted 25 January 2016 - 03:49 AM
Nothing PGI does and nothing you suggest will make you better at the game, and you will always have things to complain about. It's ok though, I understand playing the game to have fun and by all means I promote it. Please keep playing the game, but do understand when you buff one thing and nerf another some thing else will take the metas place. Just like when they nerfed gauss and cermeds, srms and assaults became meta for a few weeks. And people were complaining about assaults, it may not have been anyone in this particular post but it happened. Game balance will never replace player skill. Buffs and nerfs only make the cream rise higher, and make the lower end players complain more.
#16
Posted 25 January 2016 - 04:27 AM
#17
Posted 25 January 2016 - 04:38 AM
#18
Posted 25 January 2016 - 04:42 AM
Sigmar Sich, on 25 January 2016 - 02:41 AM, said:
And it is sad to see mutilated 'mechs, who lost all their individuality.
This! All my +1s!
I wanted a Mechwarrior game, not a glorified World of Tanks game.
#19
Posted 25 January 2016 - 04:47 AM
LordKnightFandragon, on 24 January 2016 - 10:07 PM, said:
Agreed, but the "skillz" crowd who think that getting instant pin-point damage with their laser vomit requires "real skill!" are so offended that they'd lose their point-and-click shooter that they shout down this idea every time it comes up. So, instead we get ghost heat, almost got ghost range on lasers, and scatter based weapons - as well as ones that require leading - are still inferior to point-and-click laser damage.
#20
Posted 25 January 2016 - 05:06 AM
Squirg, on 24 January 2016 - 10:23 PM, said:
This. PGI doesn't seem to understand that to get rid of a problematic meta you have to buff up the other options to par, not nerf one into the ground. RIP the LRMaggedon, RIP poptarts, RIP MGs. Just waiting for them to drunkenly nerf lasers so the cycle can start all over again.
Sigmar Sich, on 25 January 2016 - 02:41 AM, said:
I believe this can be achieved with 1) heat management balance - more dissipation, less capacity 2) zonal quirks - quirk work only in certain mech location for certain amount of weapons (amount limitation because some mechs have too many hardpoints in same location)
Buff/nerf weapons themselves.
DovisKhan, on 25 January 2016 - 03:05 AM, said:
Pit a max laser vomit vs a 6 CUAC 5 Dire and it will shred that laser guy in less than it can recharge for a second shot.
That's absolutely not true. There are some small pulse, medium pulse builds that will eat a dire alive. Dakka dires have to face tank to do damage, can't torso twist and their side torsos melt like butter.
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