31 replies to this topic

[Zarock]

Maybe Im just over-reacting a bit, but isnt the lrm-spamming getting out of hand?
Since the release of the new map, usually half my team consists of lrm-boats, same in the enemy team. I know, theyre part of the game and yes, Ive also played some lrm when I started playing this game and one or two lrm boats are okay in one match. But lately, especially on Polar Highlands, if you get spotted for more than 3 seconds, you got no chance. With 4 heavy lrm boats in the enemy team and a little spotter somewhere in your back and no cover... It doesnt matter what mech you sit in, it will get crushed within seconds.
It would be cool if there could only be, like, a maximum of 120 Rocketlaunchers per team in one match. Or if Assaults like the Atlas or King Crab become more lrm-unfriendly.
I actually started playing without lock on Polar Highlands to prevent my teammates from spamming them (doesnt really work though), except if the enemy is a lrm-boat himself.

If Im alone with this, please tell me, may be that its just me whos a little annoyed by this.

Oh and before you ask, no, its not a matter of the Tier youre in, except if theres a Tier above 1.

Have a great day, Mechwarriors!

[Contrex]

LRM are annoying but not even close to be overpowered. I think they should stay as they are, or get stronger,
Dont get me wrong, i dont play with LRM at all. I think they are super boring, but they are easy to counter,
even on a map as polar highlands...


If the current meta is mass LRM, switch the kind of mech u use. (radar dep / fast mechs / and so on)


In faction games they are completly useless btw.

[Rushin Roulette]

Logically seeing nerfing LRMs is all PGI can actually realistically do to balance them. The other change is not in the relm of PGI to actually be able to change.

Buffing players brains and intelligence.

[aaykeem]

Zarock, on 25 January 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

It would be cool if there could only be, like, a maximum of 120 Rocketlaunchers per team in one match. Or if Assaults like the Atlas or King Crab become more lrm-unfriendly.

I suggest all weapons be removed from the game, except ERLLs. And all engines above 270 rating, so that people stop running around all the time, messing with my aim.
OK, we can probably keep flamers and machine guns, for diversity's sake (although no one would actually use them amirite?).

Self-sufficient snobby attitude aside, this whole recent outcry about LRMs reminds me of the hundred years war, if the french knights of the 14th century had a forum to post in.
https://en.wikipedia...e_of_Cr%C3%A9cy

Edited by aaykeem, 27 January 2016 - 05:28 AM.

[Rattazustra]

Nerfing LRM would be incredibly stupid. You could just take them out of the game entirely then.

LRM are the most over-nerfed weapon in the entire game. If anything they need a buff.

No other weapon has so many counters. Radar deprivation, ECM, speedtanking, AMS,...

Sure it is annoying to get hit by LRMs but it is your own fault if that happens a lot. It is equally annoying to walk around a corner and look a Dire Wolf straight in the eye. Most people just got this weird Samurai thing stuck in their heads.

"Bah! Why is me happening the explosion thing? He is not doing the hugging of my face! He has no right to do the damage to poor old little me."

You know. Whining like that. If you die to MASSIVE lrm, you made a lot of mistakes in the 10-60 seconds that lead up to that point. Also your team is most likely junk.

LRM mechs take just as much skill as any other mechs. Maybe even more, who knows. Most people think they are either too easy to use or too hard. Guns and lasers need aiming skill. LRMs need positioning skill.

Oh and an enemy mech that is entirely dedicated to do one single, situational thing, with a pilot that does everything right, has every right to rip you to shreds. His entire setup is devoted to that and he obviously did everything right to be where you didn't see it coming, locked you without you being able to escape and take you apart with multi-second delay.

Every single time that happens you have screwed up. That is why people hate LRMs. It makes them face their own mistakes and there is little in the world that people hate more. It is much easier to blame the other guy then.

Have you seen the "LRM vs. The Meta" tournament? Nuff said.

I say buff them. Quite a lot actually.

[White Bear 84]

The problem I bet is that you are pugging.

[wanderer]

Quote

Maybe Im just over-reacting a bit, but isnt the laser-spamming getting out of hand?
Since the release of the new map, usually half my team consists of laser-boats, same in the enemy team. I know, theyre part of the game and yes, Ive also played some laser when I started playing this game and one or two laser boats are okay in one match. But lately, especially on Polar Highlands, if you get spotted for more than 3 seconds, you got no chance. With 4 heavy laser boats in the enemy team and a little sniper somewhere in your back and no cover... It doesnt matter what mech you sit in, it will get crushed within seconds.
It would be cool if there could only be, like, a maximum of 120 tons of lasers per team in one match. Or if Assaults like the Atlas or King Crab become more laser-unfriendly.
I actually started playing without lasers on Polar Highlands to prevent my teammates from spamming them (doesnt really work though), except if the enemy is a laser-boat himself.

If Im alone with this, please tell me, may be that its just me whos a little annoyed by this.

Oh and before you ask, no, its not a matter of the Tier youre in, except if theres a Tier below 5.

Have a great day, Mechwarriors!

I found OP so inspirational that he led me to make this post. Notice me, senpai!

Seriously. Topics like these make the meta watchers cry bloody tears at how off-target you are on how dangerous LRMs are.

And that's from a guy who lives in missile boats full-time.

[Azzgaroth]

Lolrm are only good in low tier. Get radar deprivation and lolrm are pretty much dead.

[Rattazustra]

wanderer, on 28 January 2016 - 06:22 PM, said:

Topics like these make the meta watchers cry bloody tears at how off-target you are on how dangerous LRMs are. And that's from a guy who lives in missile boats full-time.

Word.

[Voivode]

I'd like to see LRMs have a longer cooldown time but receive a change to how they move. Instead of a flat speed from launch to target I'd like to see them have a low speed at launch and accelerate as they move (y'know, like an actual missile) so that at closer ranges they have a lower effectiveness than currently in game and at longer ranges they'd have a greater effectiveness.

Of course, this would require some changes to the incoming missile warning to matter. Maybe you don't receive the warning until missiles are 300 meters distant from you. So if they were fired from close range their low speed gives you a good moment to get into cover but if they were fired from 900meters away they are cooking in on you and the warning barely precedes the impact.

[Rattazustra]

Better LRM game mechanics, promotion of teamwork, more technical sense and credibility, better information warfare and scouting dynamics and less nonsensical ECM, all in one package:

1. Make them fly 50-100% faster. What are they? Thrown rocks? Even an arrow from a bow is faster right now.
2. Make ECM create a ghost-invisibility first, where there is a 2 second delay before the mech shows up on sensors as a lockable object, THEN have it increase locking time by 2 seconds and then have it increase detail information time by 2 seconds. Remove all other effects.
3. Make radar deprivation reduce the range at which a mech can be locked. Nothing more, nothing less.
4. Increase the range at which a mech can be locked based on how hot it is.
5. Make LRMs tracking slightly worse, but:
6. Make NARCs and TAGs stack up at 50% consecutive bonus. A mech lit up with 2-3 TAG lasers should be like a missile magnet christmas tree.
7. Make LRMs crit like machineguns.
8. Add the L-AMS for clans (availlable from 3048 onwards)
9. Allow all AMS systems to be switched between four modes: Missile defense, OFF, direct fire and overdrive. In direct fire mode make it shoot like any other weapon. Make the stats of the machinegun like the stats of the AMS and make both use the same ammunition. After all, the anti missile system IS a machinegun. Only linked to a BETTER targeting system. There is no reason why it should not be able to perform lesser duties. In overdrive mode make it fire twice as fast, but have it accumulate significant heat doing so.
10. Give "Warning: Incoming Missiles" only to mechs equipped with an AMS, no matter whether or not it has ammunition for it left, and to mechs with an active probe.
11. Add smoke cannisters as a consumable that create a big cloud of thick smoke (about 20m diameter) which blocks TAG lasers and reduces the range at which mechs can be locked through the cloud. Since rangefinding already uses raytracers in the game this is not a technical problem to implement.
12. Make it possible to shoot down LRMs with regular weapons. I know it will be neigh impossible to hit them, but it should be possible. After all, many lights are neigh impossible to hit as well if the pilot is good. I still get to try.

This change would mean that people who are running solo LRM boats are worse off when they do it wrong, slightly better off when they do it how they should (fire at medium ranges and use TAG and/or NARC) and have an easier time picking out enemy snipers due to their heat. At the same time if they keep lurming away like crazy, they themselves would become easier to lock at greater ranges, enabling enemy LRM mechs to conduct counter-artillery strikes with their own missiles. The ECM change would make ECM good for flanking and hiding, but it would not be the weird force screen of stealth that it is now. The change to radar deprivation would make it more balanced and more fair. It could be countered with advanced sensors and tag and it would not be a magical immunity system to missiles. The AMS change would make AMS more popular, since if there are no enemy missiles you can just use it as a weapon and if you also have regular machineguns they can share the ammunition. AMS overdrive mode would make it a better missile defense, with the risk of overheating you and shutting your mech down as a fair trade side effect. The addition of smoke cannisters would give more tactical options to obscure movement and numbers, to shift flanks and to get away from lots of LRMs. All the above would make individual and lone LRMs mechs weaker, but those in a team setup reliably strong. Yet they'd still require good teamwork and they could be countered, but not with effortless cheap tricks. It would require skill to avoid them as well, but the tools would be there. Promoting teamwork is always a good thing. On top of all that it would make more sense in a technical way, reducing the required amount of suspension of disbelief. Especially the AMS part. if I have a super accurate high ROF machinegun, why can't I use it to shoot mechs? Also the ability to shoot LRMs with lasers would reduce the feeling of hopelessness. Plus it makes sense. If I have nothing better to shoot at, why not shoot at the missiles that are trying to kill me?

[jper4]

plus one thing that seems to make LRMs worse that I've seen happen a lot. player A seems LRM boat B 300m away, LRM boat starts LRMing. player A runs away from LRM boat and gets killed when pushing TOWARDS it makes LRMs totally useless (clans excepting mind you) when you get inside their minimum rage. player A declares LRMs to be OP, lrm boat breathes a sigh of relief at the timidness of players.

[Lyoto Machida]

As a heavy LRM user, I'm advocating that PGI removes them from the game completely so we don't have to suffer through threads like this anymore.

[Dr Hobo]

Rattazustra, on 29 January 2016 - 12:49 AM, said:

Better LRM game mechanics, promotion of teamwork, more technical sense and credibility, better information warfare and scouting dynamics and less nonsensical ECM, all in one package:

1. Make them fly 50-100% faster. What are they? Thrown rocks? Even an arrow from a bow is faster right now.
2. Make ECM create a ghost-invisibility first, where there is a 2 second delay before the mech shows up on sensors as a lockable object, THEN have it increase locking time by 2 seconds and then have it increase detail information time by 2 seconds. Remove all other effects.
3. Make radar deprivation reduce the range at which a mech can be locked. Nothing more, nothing less.
4. Increase the range at which a mech can be locked based on how hot it is.
5. Make LRMs tracking slightly worse, but:
6. Make NARCs and TAGs stack up at 50% consecutive bonus. A mech lit up with 2-3 TAG lasers should be like a missile magnet christmas tree.
7. Make LRMs crit like machineguns.
8. Add the L-AMS for clans (availlable from 3048 onwards)
9. Allow all AMS systems to be switched between four modes: Missile defense, OFF, direct fire and overdrive. In direct fire mode make it shoot like any other weapon. Make the stats of the machinegun like the stats of the AMS and make both use the same ammunition. After all, the anti missile system IS a machinegun. Only linked to a BETTER targeting system. There is no reason why it should not be able to perform lesser duties. In overdrive mode make it fire twice as fast, but have it accumulate significant heat doing so.
10. Give "Warning: Incoming Missiles" only to mechs equipped with an AMS, no matter whether or not it has ammunition for it left, and to mechs with an active probe.
11. Add smoke cannisters as a consumable that create a big cloud of thick smoke (about 20m diameter) which blocks TAG lasers and reduces the range at which mechs can be locked through the cloud. Since rangefinding already uses raytracers in the game this is not a technical problem to implement.
12. Make it possible to shoot down LRMs with regular weapons. I know it will be neigh impossible to hit them, but it should be possible. After all, many lights are neigh impossible to hit as well if the pilot is good. I still get to try.

This change would mean that people who are running solo LRM boats are worse off when they do it wrong, slightly better off when they do it how they should (fire at medium ranges and use TAG and/or NARC) and have an easier time picking out enemy snipers due to their heat. At the same time if they keep lurming away like crazy, they themselves would become easier to lock at greater ranges, enabling enemy LRM mechs to conduct counter-artillery strikes with their own missiles. The ECM change would make ECM good for flanking and hiding, but it would not be the weird force screen of stealth that it is now. The change to radar deprivation would make it more balanced and more fair. It could be countered with advanced sensors and tag and it would not be a magical immunity system to missiles. The AMS change would make AMS more popular, since if there are no enemy missiles you can just use it as a weapon and if you also have regular machineguns they can share the ammunition. AMS overdrive mode would make it a better missile defense, with the risk of overheating you and shutting your mech down as a fair trade side effect. The addition of smoke cannisters would give more tactical options to obscure movement and numbers, to shift flanks and to get away from lots of LRMs. All the above would make individual and lone LRMs mechs weaker, but those in a team setup reliably strong. Yet they'd still require good teamwork and they could be countered, but not with effortless cheap tricks. It would require skill to avoid them as well, but the tools would be there. Promoting teamwork is always a good thing. On top of all that it would make more sense in a technical way, reducing the required amount of suspension of disbelief. Especially the AMS part. if I have a super accurate high ROF machinegun, why can't I use it to shoot mechs? Also the ability to shoot LRMs with lasers would reduce the feeling of hopelessness. Plus it makes sense. If I have nothing better to shoot at, why not shoot at the missiles that are trying to kill me?

AMS should have it's own ammo pool but the pilot can direct them to do the same damage as an MG.

Agree on everything else. But AMS really needs a faster target acquisition from missile to missile. On the new map,Polar,fighting an LRM heavy team with 1 AMS kinda hurts. But I suppose that's because I don't have everything learned on that map yet.

[Throe]

Zarock, on 25 January 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

I actually started playing without lock on Polar Highlands to prevent my teammates from spamming them (doesnt really work though), except if the enemy is a lrm-boat himself.

You're a jerk, and you should run a kitfox with ECM and 3 AMS if you don't like LRMs. LRMs have been far more powerful in the past, and the current status quo is good, IMO. I just played a match on Polar Highlands with an XL275 Griffin with no ECM this morning, and was under heavy missile fire from the enemy team for a good 15 seconds straight before I went down. This was due to a poor decision to push a bit closer to the enemy team than I should've, but the fact that I lasted 15 seconds under heavy LRM fire means LRMs are not overpowered. The only reason people are complaining about them is that they're slightly better on Polar Highlands than on any other map thus far. The real solutions to this are two fold: 1)Don't fight in the center of the map, where there is very little cover, and 2)Run more AMS and ECM if you find yourself being shutdown by LRM fire. There are numerous structures suitable for LRM cover on Polar Highlands, but since the murderballs tend toward the middle of the map, and no one wants to play by themselves(safety in numbers), the cover isn't nearby enough to be of use in an engagement.

It's probably worth mentioning that a set of three team mates running 1 AMS each appropriately placed between the LRM boat and it's target is capable of shooting down 21 missiles, last time I checked the stats on AMS(and some 'Mechs now have AMS bonuses). One of the corollaries to people running AMS is the same people learning to use AMS to the betterment of the team. AMS is far more effective at protecting team mates than it is in protecting AMS carrier. I'd bet every good Kitfox pilot knows this.

[LupineShadow]

Ever watch a LRM team crumple against a team of mechs with a few ECM and EVERYONE carrying 1-3 AMS? It's actually kind of funny. Makes me wish we still had to pay for the ammo we use...

[Void Angel]

wanderer, on 28 January 2016 - 06:22 PM, said:

I found OP so inspirational that he led me to make this post. Notice me, senpai! Seriously. Topics like these make the meta watchers cry bloody tears at how off-target you are on how dangerous LRMs are. And that's from a guy who lives in missile boats full-time.

I like where he says the Atlas is LRM-friendly.

[cSand]

Zarock, on 25 January 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

Maybe Im just over-reacting a bit, but isnt the lrm-spamming getting out of hand?
Since the release of the new map, usually half my team consists of lrm-boats, same in the enemy team. I know, theyre part of the game and yes, Ive also played some lrm when I started playing this game and one or two lrm boats are okay in one match. But lately, especially on Polar Highlands, if you get spotted for more than 3 seconds, you got no chance. With 4 heavy lrm boats in the enemy team and a little spotter somewhere in your back and no cover... It doesnt matter what mech you sit in, it will get crushed within seconds.
It would be cool if there could only be, like, a maximum of 120 Rocketlaunchers per team in one match. Or if Assaults like the Atlas or King Crab become more lrm-unfriendly.
I actually started playing without lock on Polar Highlands to prevent my teammates from spamming them (doesnt really work though), except if the enemy is a lrm-boat himself.

If Im alone with this, please tell me, may be that its just me whos a little annoyed by this.

Oh and before you ask, no, its not a matter of the Tier youre in, except if theres a Tier above 1.

Have a great day, Mechwarriors!

let me ask you one single question

how many of your mechs have AMS equipped?

[MechB Kotare]

Increase velocity speed, and damage per rocket. And then massively increase their cooldown.

Bem! LRMs gets more viable, LRM spamming gets removed.

Their DPS is ok to weak. Nothing OP. Weapon system itself is easy to evade, once you learn how to use terrain into your advantage and once you learn how to watch out for UAvs.

Nerfing the LRMs? No.
Redoing them? Yes.

[Bespoke Cheese Cake]

I'm sure people have said this before, but I will say it again. ECM, AMS and cover are the counters to LRMs. It is up to us the players to use them properly.

I will agree the lurm rain can be a pain though.