10 replies to this topic

[DaManiac]

Can anyone comment on if the SHS is of any worth compared to the DHS post the latest patch.

Going from 0.1 to 0.11 doesn't seem to really be a game changer (pun intended).

Not that I need to care about the 1.5 million C-Bills, I just want to know under what circumstances it might not be worth upgrading anymore or where the trade-off is minimal.

Clearly with Light Mechs there is no rationale not to change to DHS, esp if you aren't taking FF.

But with assaults, is there any form of trade-off that can be found? e.g very heavy ballistic builds, mechs that come default with FF? Have weight but no space? Because if DHS are still twice that of SHS in the engine, then I still don't see any point of SHS.

Most builds I see only carry usually no more than three extra HS outside the engine.

[DovisKhan]

Ballistic builds are heat effective with base DHS you get with the engine, so it's always the go to choice to upgrade if you're a ballistics fan, if you go for a mix of ballistics+some medium lasers - you need a few DHS more.


SHS are totally never worth it with a ballistic build since you want all the ammo you can get, lets say you're packing an UAC5 build, to have a 1000 worth of damage in ammo you need 7 tonns, given your accuracy won't be 100% you need at least 8 tons of ammo to break the 1k damage mark.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

http://mwomercs.com/...55#entry4857255

Did it. No one paid attention.

Quick summary.

3/5 energy boat assaults and up to a 4/6 energy boat assault with an XL tend to be better with SHS

[DaManiac]

This forum needs better search tools, I was searching for a page just like that, but was getting stuff from 2013. Thanks dude.

[DaManiac]

Actually I read it and I don't really understand. What do you mean 3/5 and 4/6 Energy assault boats?

So as long as you are willing to walk a (fair) bit slower, you can get overall slightly better heat performance with SHS with energy based assaults, so essentially Awesome, Stalkers, Banshees and Atlases, Banshees and Atlases being dubious as they need a min of STD300 which gives the additional free 2 slots for DHS.

So the only case for SHS is a very weak niche case?

[Narcissistic Martyr]

DaManiac, on 25 January 2016 - 11:48 PM, said:

Actually I read it and I don't really understand. What do you mean 3/5 and 4/6 Energy assault boats?

So as long as you are willing to walk a (fair) bit slower, you can get overall slightly better heat performance with SHS with energy based assaults, so essentially Awesome, Stalkers, Banshees and Atlases, Banshees and Atlases being dubious as they need a min of STD300 which gives the additional free 2 slots for DHS.

So the only case for SHS is a very weak niche case?

3/5 and 4/6 are walk/run TT speeds.

They're basically direwolf speed and stock cataphract, warhammer, zeus, orion, etc speed. Or about 48 kph and 64 kph respectively.

Andyou've got the basic idea down.

The break even point is about 24 SHS to equal a mech stuffed with DHS. Give or take a few depending on build number of actuators, etc.

Also, if anything I say or write doesn't make sense it's probably because I did it while drunk. Just point it out and I'll fix it.

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 26 January 2016 - 12:52 AM.

[Mad Porthos]

There are some other cases where heavies and lighter assaults boating lots of light energy, eg. Med laser, med pulse... Can obtain greater heat efficiency and much greater heat capacity than double heat sinks, by boating single heat sinks and possibly large XL engine. It takes like 30-34 SHS to be with it, but once in the 75+ ton range, you can manage this by running lots and lots of light, one slot, quick cooldown weapons and filling all your spaces with those singles. To get the space you may even have to run without endo, or run a low standard engine (freeing 6 side torso XL engine slots) or conversely run a largish XL for more internal engine slots at relatively light weight.

Managed to make this work really well in a black knight running a mix of 8 medium and medium pulse lasers, with 33 single heat sinks, XL 350 - heat efficiency 1.34, and HUUUUGE heat capacity meaning it could alpha much more before having to hide/cool shot etc. Same build with double heat sinks was nowhere near same efficiency and much lower heat capacity made for many more shutdowns. Near max armor too and carried a beagle active probe IIRC.

Edited by Mad Porthos, 26 January 2016 - 08:02 AM.

[MechWarrior5152251]

An assault with many energy hard points could benefit from single heat sinks if they could fit 40+ heat sinks....

[Narcissistic Martyr]

MechWarrior5152251, on 26 January 2016 - 06:14 AM, said:

An assault with many energy hard points could benefit from single heat sinks if they could fit 40+ heat sinks....

It's 24 for IS DHS but for clan DHS it's about 36 or so. Currently only the Highlander IIC with 4cERLL has the tonnage to benefit from SHS. But you can still run max clan XL engine and near max armor still so you end up with good cooling and great heat capacity. Effectively this allows you to alpha twice or if you aren't playing peekaboo, continue firing long after your DHS rival has shut down. You do have to give up JJ but lets be honest, assault JJ are pretty much worthless anyways.

[DaManiac]

I've done a bit more digging into the SHS DHS issue, and further in summary

SHS beats DHS ONLY when.

- Assault laser boat running many (5+) med lasers with no Endo because you only have energy hard-points. So a giant walking assault heat sink with the main armament of MLas with a couple of LLas.

So, specifically variants of stalkers and banshees and Awesome running nothing higher than a STD 300. This works even better if you run an XL, (but we all know, XL in an assault...)

This is because you have the tonnage (from light energy weapons) and the space to run SHS right through your entire torso and legs.

But, even if you have a single ballistic or missile point that can be utilized with a heavy bore weapon (AC/10 or LRM 15) you can likely increase you DPS if you swap to DHS.

Edited by DaManiac, 26 January 2016 - 09:11 PM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

DaManiac, on 26 January 2016 - 09:10 PM, said:

I've done a bit more digging into the SHS DHS issue, and further in summary

SHS beats DHS ONLY when.

- Assault laser boat running many (5+) med lasers with no Endo because you only have energy hard-points. So a giant walking assault heat sink with the main armament of MLas with a couple of LLas.

So, specifically variants of stalkers and banshees and Awesome running nothing higher than a STD 300. This works even better if you run an XL, (but we all know, XL in an assault...)

This is because you have the tonnage (from light energy weapons) and the space to run SHS right through your entire torso and legs.

But, even if you have a single ballistic or missile point that can be utilized with a heavy bore weapon (AC/10 or LRM 15) you can likely increase you DPS if you swap to DHS.

That's far too specific an extrapolation from my work.

A good general rule of thumb, ~50 kph assaults with STD engine or ~64 kph with an XL that mount around 20-25 tons of energy weapons will typically come out ahead with SHS. Check it in smurphy to be sure of course but that's my general rule of thumb. For clan mechs... well SHS are great for a 4ERLL highlander build and basically useless for everything else.

Personally... I have a bunch of complicated graphs and charts that I use to figure which is best. Mostly because I like graphs and charts... to be honest. I need another hobby... or a new job where I can get that out of my system...