32 replies to this topic

[VanillaG]

}{avoc, on 08 December 2011 - 11:59 AM, said:

If I can run, target an area in between being hit and bouncing over the terrain I should be rewarded for it.

That makes perfect sense to me but let me throw this wrinkle in. The amount of perceived bounce is influenced by pilot proficiency but it is not the sole determining factor. Basically just to throw out some random numbers the speed and terrain account for 80% of the bounce you experience but the last 20% can be reduced by your pilots experience. The more experience a pilot has is with given a mech and weapon types they experience a slightly smoother ride making aiming slightly easier. Obviously the numbers would need to be worked out so it is not too much of an advantage but this should give you general idea.

The rational for this type of system is that a new pilot to a mech and type of weapons has learning curve to get used what happens when you try to pilot a brand new mech and shoot an unfamiliar weapon. The more experience they acquire with a particular setup the smoother they become. An exaggerated example would be a person who drops some real money to jump directly into a Hunchback without gaining any pilot experience with smaller mechs be thrown to ground the first time they press the trigger on the AC/20. I know that would never happen(but it would be pretty funny to watch) but hopefully you see what I am getting at.

[BerserX]

}{avoc, on 07 December 2011 - 07:19 AM, said:

I would agree to this to a MAXIMUM bonus of 10%. This would benefit people who tend to stick to certain roles/weapons/chassis but not cause such a huge advantage as to make them unkillable.

I would also suggest that there be a large number of things to specialize in, not just energy, ballistic, missile.
I'm thinking small energy spec (which could include small lasers and flamers), medium energy (MLas), large energy spec (PPCs and LLas) etc. along with recon specific specializations like electronics suites (which would also level up with Command).

VanillaG, on 07 December 2011 - 01:44 PM, said:

I would think the proficiency would be broken down into at least 4 categories:

• Gunnery Major - LRM, SRM, Laser, AC
  
• Gunnery Minor - LRM-5, LRM -10, Small Laser, Small Pulse Laser, ect.
  
• Pilot Major - Light, Medium, Large, Assault
  
• Pilot Minor - Specific mech type.

Those factors would be used regulate the size of the aiming reticule when firing weapons (basically a cone of fire - this has been hashed out in other threads). The more experience a player has with a certain mechs and weapons, the smaller the reticule becomes. For example, you start in a light mech and your reticule is fairly large but as you gain experience with that mech and weapons the reticule begins to shrink down to almost pinpoint precision. You decide you want to try another mech the following would occur:

• Another light mech with similar weapons, the reticule becomes slightly larger because of a different Pilot Minor.
  
• Another light mech with totally different type of weapons, the reticule is larger that the one in 1 because of different Pilot Minor, Gunnery Major, and Gunnery Minor.
  
• A medium mech with similar weapons, the reticule is larger that the one in 2 because of different Pilot Major, Pilot Minor, and most likely Gunnery Minor because of different sized weapons.
  
• A medium mech with totally different weapons, the reticule is larger than the one in 3 because of different Pilot Major, Pilot Minor, Gunnery Major, and Gunnery Minor.

This kind of system allows a player to specialize in a style mech (AC heavy, Laser Heavy, Missle Heavy) so they can be more proficient stepping up in weight with a similar mech than one that starts out Light - Laser and goes to Medium-Missile. You can still move to different style but you have a steeper learning curve than had you stayed with something similar. With enough experience you back in to being competitive.


You could also introduce a decay that every match you play and you do not use a skill you lose a small amount of experience. This prevents a player from maxing out all of the different mechs and weapons and being able to jump into any mech with max skill. Basically you must use your skills on a regular basis or your performance will suffer when go back to a different mech/weapon.

Red Beard, on 07 December 2011 - 05:09 PM, said:

Pilot leveling might make sense if leveling up comes when using mech specific abilities. If all a pilot does is charge in and fire his lasers, there should be no XP for that as it does not assist in teamwork. However, if a scout is proficient in gaining usable recon, and can succeed in doing so on a regular basis, this should be rewarded. I cannot say what abilities will exist beyond weaponry, but rewarding specific traits that are isolated to only a few mechs seems more viable than simply leveling up ones gauss skills after so many shots fired.

I also agree that leveling up should be tiring and slow. One should only be given a higher status within the ranks of one specific mech type after many, many missions.

All three of y'all have great ideas!

In M&B, when you first use a crossbow, your reticule is huge. After numerous hits, one proficiency point is awarded. The better the shot - the faster you gain proficiency points. After receiving a large amount of points, they become much harder to obtain. I think that this is how MWO should be. It rewards players who are committed to specific weaponry, and rewards them better when they line up a good shot.

[That Guy]

I am really against having any avatar or mech "leveling" in this game (yeah the devs are going to add it, im going to be sad). I want a level playing field. all i have to say is "World of Tanks".

when you start out, you are basically stuck sucking for several matches (or days) until you A) under stand how to play, and B.) grind to get better gear. the same applies when you go up a tier. everyone who has been there longer than you has a significant tactical advantage. they have better crews, they have better guns, they have better engines, they have better radios, they have better models. they are just plain better.

this is a TERRIBLE way for a competitive online game to work.

I really hope that all the leveling is very very subtle, and has very limiting affect on actual combat, with mostly out of game buffs and bonus (like increasing income slightly, hiring more skilled techs, lowering maintenance costs etc), or affecting things that us the human doesn't have as much direct control of (balance, jumping, sensors etc).

I really want to hear directly from the devs what they plan to implement and how,but until then i am quite against "avatar skill"

[CeeKay Boques]

I'm with that That Guy, not just for the competive part, but because it will kill immersion, beause of what it means to gameplay.

I shoot better now? Because of a Perk?
You know what that means?
I don't actually have to shoot better, I just have to level it!

I blame WoW and achievement loaded games. Why do I have to level to feel good? Can't I just look back and say "Hey, I'm pretty good now, I remember when I sucked!"

No Warrior left behind I guess....

[Nik Van Rhijn]

As they have said that all classes of mech will be available at the start, then piloting a Hunchback or Atlas from the go (as they've shown those 2 already) is highly likely. People are going to be piloting lights from choice, not becuse that's where you start. I think "perks" should be in areas like sensors and coms not piloting and shooting. That's were the "real" person takes over.

[BerserX]

That Guy, on 27 December 2011 - 04:34 PM, said:

I am really against having any avatar or mech "leveling" in this game (yeah the devs are going to add it, im going to be sad). I want a level playing field. all i have to say is "World of Tanks".

when you start out, you are basically stuck sucking for several matches (or days) until you A) under stand how to play, and B.) grind to get better gear. the same applies when you go up a tier. everyone who has been there longer than you has a significant tactical advantage. they have better crews, they have better guns, they have better engines, they have better radios, they have better models. they are just plain better.

this is a TERRIBLE way for a competitive online game to work.

I really hope that all the leveling is very very subtle, and has very limiting affect on actual combat, with mostly out of game buffs and bonus (like increasing income slightly, hiring more skilled techs, lowering maintenance costs etc), or affecting things that us the human doesn't have as much direct control of (balance, jumping, sensors etc).

I really want to hear directly from the devs what they plan to implement and how,but until then i am quite against "avatar skill"

Nik Van Rhijn, on 28 December 2011 - 03:24 AM, said:

As they have said that all classes of mech will be available at the start, then piloting a Hunchback or Atlas from the go (as they've shown those 2 already) is highly likely. People are going to be piloting lights from choice, not becuse that's where you start. I think "perks" should be in areas like sensors and coms not piloting and shooting. That's were the "real" person takes over.

My idea was more in line with, "Okay, rotaries are great, but they jam like crazy. I have used them extensively, and now I have a 5% lower chance of jamming." I do not want excessive perks - just enough to justify (to a reasonable extent) specialization in a particular weight class/weapon-type/roll-type.

I am hesitant about them, because there are not many practical ways to incorporate it. In M&B, you swing your blade faster/harder; ride your horse quicker; shoot your bow straighter; throw your javelin straighter/harder; etc.: whenever you use it/them effectively "X" amount of times. This encourages you to practice your archery, lancing, etc. in order to become a better warrior.

That's all I want.

[Pht]

That Guy, on 27 December 2011 - 04:34 PM, said:

I am really against having any avatar or mech "leveling" in this game (yeah the devs are going to add it, im going to be sad). I want a level playing field.

Realizing that players are never equal, if just in human talent... I can understand what you fear. But I don't think it is *necessarily* going to be bad. It depends on what they choose to give to the avatar.

Most of the "finer" piloting skills are completely cut off from us - we don't have functioning neurohelments as they exist in the BTUniverse; and that's the main tool for keeping the 'mech upright that works in tandem with the 'mechs gyro. At some blunt, crude level, we can and SHOULD control piloting - where we're going, how fast, and in what mode - but we, at our computers, simply have no way to simulate the piloting skills for 'mech balance. In tabletop terms, pretty much *everything* that requires a PSR - piloting skill roll to keep from falling over (or what not) could be fair game for avatar skills.

[Scarlett Avignon]

I like the idea of be able to get proficiencies with weapons that I use. I don't see it as game-breaking, having played that other armored game we don't talk about. Sure, you suck for a bit at first, but it will be far different in this game because you only have one avatar to skill up, where in the other game, you have multiple crews spread out over multiple vehicles. Honestly, it mirrors RL where, as you use a weapon more and more, you become more skilled in it's operation.

[Pht]

Franklen Avignon, on 28 December 2011 - 04:24 PM, said:

I like the idea of be able to get proficiencies with weapons that I use. I don't see it as game-breaking, having played that other armored game we don't talk about.

... This could very well boil down to the players that have specialized in pulse laser weapons sniping it out at extreme range with those players who have specialized in gauss weapons and all the others dying left, right, and center.

Bad mojo.

Edited by Pht, 28 December 2011 - 04:29 PM.

[Xhaleon]

Pht, on 28 December 2011 - 04:28 PM, said:

... This could very well boil down to the players that have specialized in pulse laser weapons sniping it out at extreme range with those players who have specialized in gauss weapons and all the others dying left, right, and center.

Bad mojo.

Only if we have Clan pulse lasers. Otherwise, I'll be fine with pulse laser specialists universally becoming jumpers because that's just the only logical way to use their superior short-range accuracy.

[Pht]

Xhaleon, on 28 December 2011 - 04:41 PM, said:

Only if we have Clan pulse lasers. Otherwise, I'll be fine with pulse laser specialists universally becoming jumpers because that's just the only logical way to use their superior short-range accuracy.

Actually, if the allow for the longer "extreme" and "los" ranges even the lowly ISLPL becomes scary... but yes, the CLPL is what it is: probably the most accurate long ranged energy weapon in the entire BTUniverse (which is not necessarily bad).

[That Guy]

i still feel that "weapon specialization" should be a player, not avatar skill. wile playing mercs again on gameranger, i have become a very good shot with IS SRMs, and to a certain extent rocket launchers (granted deadfire missiles are about the only weapon that takes any real skill). its because I know how and where to use them, not some +10 to SRM accuracy on my avatar.

on the other hand i just cant get freaking LRMs to work for me. others who use LRMs ruin my day at LR, but when it do it, its a cavalcade of fail

but yes i see PGI wanting some sort of progression mechanic to keep people interesting in the long term, but i am just a diehard "old school" player centric dude. i just hate having to play a game for a long time and sucking simply because the games numbers tell me i suck (as you might be able to tell, im not a big fan of RPG games, specifically first person ones) no matter how "good" i am at the game. i just hope that the leveling and progression is subtle. i want a first day noobie to be able to stand up to a launch day veteran (provided the noobie knows how to play)

[Kurohyou]

pilot proficiency should be determined by number of wins or battle points that a pilot has achieved over his/her lifetime. The top pilots should have access to the top of the line House Weapons/Mechs.

Yes, Im a MPBT:Solaris vet so this isn't my first go round with online mech battles