49 replies to this topic

[TyphonCh]

Render, on 26 January 2016 - 11:34 AM, said:

Wrong... I have spent more on this game than every other game I have ever played...
Yes that was my decision and all on me, but damn, I think we deserve better than these cheap money grabbing new Mech sales.
Where is the new content ? All the stuff we want like Solaris 7 and many other things people have been asking for?

No, you are wrong. Unless you have access to their numbers, or know the wage of each and every employee, bonuses, building and hydro costs (Vancouver is ******* expensive!!!!) etc, all your numbers are speculation.
Just because you yourself have spent money doesn't justify us getting more stuff. Even if you spent $3000 since start up, I bet thats hardly enough to cover one employees take home pay for a month long period. Think about it. All the money you spent? That was gone long ago. They need a constant flow of cash, and the best tried and true way is through mech packs. No ifs ands or buts. Buying mechs = content.
MC only makes up a small percentage of sales because really.. There isn't much incentive to buy MC unless you want the occasional color or paint job, PT, or there's a sale and you want to stock up on it. An MC pack can go a long way if you spend it right and wait for sales.
Then you have to consider Canadian players, or others with exceptionally weak dollars, aren't spending on the game because of the bad exchange rate. They're not necessarily making more if we don't spend.
Remember, MINIMAL VIABLE PRODUCT. I feel like this past year has given us more content than we ever could have asked for with their capabilities. So shut your pie hole, you get what you get!

Edited by Team Chevy86, 26 January 2016 - 12:40 PM.

[Cion]

Davegt27, on 26 January 2016 - 11:32 AM, said:

Russ said in one town hall that they need $70K a month so no I dont think they are doing that great

I agree, you can't run a ~50 person business (PGI's size) on 70k a month. You need at anywhere from 300k-500k a month for salaries, benefits and expenses.

Seem like too much?
between customer service reps and high end developers imagine an average salary of 65,000 a year. so 65k x 50 (employees) / 12 (months) = 270k roughly. Add benefits (insurance, days off, etc.) and you're over 300k. Then add rent, taxes, etc etc etc you'll easily pass 400k and likely more.

That's why that 70k figure looks odd to me and I dont recall it.

mogs01gt, on 26 January 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

Assuming 2500 on average for Steam players and another 2500 for non-Steam, that is 5000 players a day. So they need $14(9 Canadian) day from each player. That doesnt seem right.

You're forgetting that your 5k is players logged in at one time. The active player base is for sure multiple times that (I mean, even if you log in to play an hour every day, then that would mean you need to multiply your number by 24 to get active players.)

Edited by Cion, 26 January 2016 - 12:46 PM.

[Mystere]

Rizzelbizzeg, on 26 January 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

Here's some fun numbers:
4,173 Rizzelbizzeg 52

because I'm admittedly bad at the game, I played one terrible (pretty standard for me) match on my WHM-6R for the tournament. Yes, that's right, a score of 52 putting me in oh so glorious 4173rd place! Huzzah!

However what it does mean is that even if all these are just $20 packs, that's $83,460. Or $117,678 in loonies or whatever they call them in Canadia.

I played the Black Widow for considerably more games and got this:
1,528 Rizzelbizzeg 747

That's with multiple games so the number is likely much higher than only 1528 buys. Slam jam, tack another at least $30,560 (CAN $43,089) onto the pile!

For just the warhammer, they pulled in AT LEAST $114,020 (CAN $160,768). That should pay for 1 developer for a year.

You're forgetting 1 thing: taxes.

[Mystere]

Cillipuddi, on 26 January 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:

@Cion I meant the original post. I should've been clearer, haven't finished my coffee yet.

@Render All the Solaris stuff is coming out in Phase 3. Most of the maps for 4v4 and 8v8 will be Solaris based. The February Patch is going to be one of the largest updates ever. I mean seriously man. They just came out with a new map, new mechs are dropping regularly, and most higher skilled players would say game balance is really good atm. Over the last year this game has improved 100 fold. It's not perfect, no game is. They're trying to hire multiple mech, map, and balancing devs currently as well. I think they're spending their money very wisely. I've spent hundreds of dollars on this game as well and only have one complaint, and that's about how salty this community is.

Solaris will be part of Community Warfare in Phase 3? You've got to be ******* kidding, because that would be ******* insane.

[C I L L I P U D D I]

Mystere, on 26 January 2016 - 01:03 PM, said:

Solaris will be part of Community Warfare in Phase 3? You've got to be ******* kidding, because that would be ******* insane.

From what I've read and I cant qoute anything because I don't recall the specific link or tweet but yes, Solaris is suppose to be implemented heavily in CW.

[Mystere]

Zolaz, on 26 January 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

How much hookers and blow is that?

You need hookers? That's so so very sad.

[Mystere]

Cillipuddi, on 26 January 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

From what I've read and I cant qoute anything because I don't recall the specific link or tweet but yes, Solaris is suppose to be implemented heavily in CW.

Please note that by "insane" I actually meant "stupid". Putting Solaris inside CW is ... never mind, I'm too flabbergasted.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Still CW is garbage. They don't really deserve money for crappy in a box calling it a mech name people will buy without giving real end game content. People are shills for this IP it is pretty ridiculous. Just throwing their money at them to get their favorite mech, so sad. The game potential is r3t4rd3d by it player base on that point alone.

[lshtaria]

Cion, on 26 January 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

Personally, I wish Russ becomes filthy rich.
1- hopefully that long term funds the development of the game
2- Russ took a huge risk in putting his business working on a new game for a decade old abandoned franchise. Whether he's done good or bad is anyone's opinion, but we have to admit it must have been quite the risk at the beginning.

Battletech/Mechwarrior will always be out there coming from the success of the good ol' tabletop days when all round 'ere were fields. Time moves on though but I've always thought BT translates better to video games than Warhammer does (the TT game not the mech of course).

While we all dream of the immersive single player experience that MW5 could bring on current gen PC hardware, it's just not something that's going to sell well enough for the big publishers like Acti*****n or Elec*****c Farts to want to put money into. Most of the kids of today have been CoD-ified and it's all about style over substance. Anyone else bang their forehead in despair when they saw how EA'd Mass Effect 2 had become after the opus of the original?

So, for now, an entertaining online game just off the side-street is what MW will always be for the time being. I know Russ is a big fan of the IP but I think a lot of his decisions do have a lot to be desired. Arbitrary systems instead of simple tweaks. Big buffs then moderate nerfs then minor buffs instead of incremental changes in the right direction until the sweet spot is reached. Listening too much to the comp-meta idiots who must win at all costs instead of hearing the voice of players who want to play for fun and enjoy their matches win or lose. Employing Paul Inouye.

I don't hope he becomes filthy rich but I hope he doesn't lose anything that he may have originally put in. I also hope he has a further future in the gaming industry and not just as some guy sitting at a desk at the back doing some random lines of code that never gets acknowledged.

MWO will never be perfect. The opinions of what would be perfect are so fractured that it's completely impossible to please everyone. What we do have is a much better game than we actually give Russ and PGI credit for though.

Edited by Milocinia, 26 January 2016 - 01:33 PM.

[Screech]

LULZ abound, thank you all.

[Lyoto Machida]

KosherBacon, on 26 January 2016 - 11:13 AM, said:

[Davegt27]

Quote

Interesting, when did he say that? I follow him on Twitter often and have attended every town hall but for sure missed some tweets or got late to a town hall.

it was like late June early july town hall meeting either 2014 or 2015

[Sjorpha]

Cion, on 26 January 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

but most importantly
The exchange rate for US Dollars to CAD Dollars

Remember all sales of MWO are in US Dollars. The great mayority of expenses are in CAD Dollars. The main expenses of a business are 1-Salaries, 2-Rent.

For those that do not know: a year and a half ago, Jul 2014, the exchange rate was at 1.06. Meaning, for every 1 US dollar PGI received 1.06 CAD Dollars.
Now the exchange rate is at 1.41, meaning that for every 1 US Dollar in sales, PGI receives 1.41 CAD Dollars.

So for doing absolutely nothing PGI's revenue has increased 33%. Couple that up with things they have done like the Warhammer, new pricing model, etc. and it's safe to assume that PGI has more cash than ever before.

The CAD being worth less just means it's worth less. It's not increased revenue, it's the same revenue but now measured in a weaker currency.

I have no idea how people can be so think about this topic, it was the same in that other thread. As is if the CAD/US relationship were difference from the relation between other currencies. If you want to know the real worth profit of a business you adjust for inflation and price curves.

Perhaps Canadian Salaries are falling behind their inflation curve a bit, that would mean cheaper labur and increased profit margin for PGI. But it would be cheaper labor and not increased revenue, and I'm not convinced it is actually the case either.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

70k a day maybe. They'll budget most expenses off of the major sale items like packs so they have a slush fund of sorts so they KNOW they can pay their bills. If they were hoping to cover expenses every month on regular sales, they game would indeed be in dire straights.

Sjorpha, on 26 January 2016 - 02:37 PM, said:

The CAD being worth less just means it's worth less. It's not increased revenue, it's the same revenue but now measured in a weaker currency.

I have no idea how people can be so think about this topic, it was the same in that other thread. As is if the CAD/US relationship were difference from the relation between other currencies. If you want to know the real worth profit of a business you adjust for inflation and price curves.

Perhaps Canadian Salaries are falling behind their inflation curve a bit, that would mean cheaper labur and increased profit margin for PGI. But it would be cheaper labor and not increased revenue, and I'm not convinced it is actually the case either.

They'll make more on the bottom line. More profit, good on them. Enjoy it while you can because when it eventually recovers, you'll be used to that extra 30% conversion rate to CAD from your USD sales and need to find a way to make up for it. So have a plan in advance. If what you needed to take this game to a new level of development was cash, you've been handed a pretty substantial boost to get new hires and tech for your game.

Edited by xMADCATTERx, 26 January 2016 - 02:44 PM.

[Mawai]

Davegt27, on 26 January 2016 - 11:32 AM, said:

Russ said in one town hall that they need $70K a month so no I dont think they are doing that great

I think that number has to be way low ... are you sure that is what he said? They have like 50 employees ... at 50k a year (which is low for a decent developer) that is 2.5 mill or a minimum 200k and that is a low ball value. It also doesn't include rent, taxes, server costs, utilities, and the myriad other costs. Did he mean $700k?

As for how PGI is doing? It has been running this game in open beta for 3 1/2 years now. They are a private company so they don't have to file financial statements ... but if they weren't making a profit or are close after this length of time ... they would not still be in business.

If they have 50,000 players ... could be more ... based on the assumption that steam represents about 40% of the currently online users ... meaning steam 4k implies about 10k online and assuming 20% of active players online at peaks ... then they would need about $14/month on average from each player to make a $700k target.

Anyway, all this aside, the OP is perfectly correct that the pressure on PGI has gone down due to the current exchange rate ... their costs are in $CA and revenues in $US ... which is giving them a 41% premium at the moment ... revenue dollars are going a lot farther than they used to.

[Lyoto Machida]

Davegt27, on 26 January 2016 - 11:32 AM, said:

Russ said in one town hall that they need $70K a month so no I dont think they are doing that great

$70,000 per month? No way is that number correct. If so, it explains why this game gets developed so slowly.

I run the books for a business that is smaller than PGI. Our employee payroll alone is about $85k per month and this doesn't factor in contractors, rent, utilities, software leases, licenses, supplies, etc, etc...

[Ted Wayz]

Came expecting facts and financial data.

Realized on interwebz in MWO forums.

Post meets expectations.

[TLBFestus]

Cillipuddi, on 26 January 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

This is post is so dumb. Just another bash PGI because I think I'm owed something post.

That's what I love about about replies like this. The OP makes a decent observation, not criticism, and asks what people think could be done. Then some Rose colored glasses wearing White knight dingle-berry takes offense despite the fact none was given.

Turns out there are "those" type of people on both sides of the argument eh?

[C I L L I P U D D I]

How is it a "decent observation"? A company making money, oh better start rolling out the red carpet for its players and throwing free mechs and content at people like we're on Oprah.

I would love to see you guys do this to a non-video game business, without any of you owning stock in the company. They would tell you where you could put your opinion and let you know if you didn't like what they're doing to just stop buying their product.

It's like you guys bought a car, signed the papers and 3 years later came back and said,
"I'm not happy with this car, I'm not going to give it back or pay you money to fix the issues. I just want you to fix it and make it look like all the cars that have came out this year."
"No, I don't want a new car. I want this one, but with all the new car stuff in it."

Or, "I've spent money money on this car but, I don't really like this car, most people like it but I don't. Even though the majority of people love this car, I'm going to write negative reviews and send ridiculous emails to them to make my tiny minority opinion a lot louder than the people who enjoy it."

Call me what you want, but how PGI spends their money, unless you're a stock holder, is their business. You don't like it, shove off.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Render, on 26 January 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

PGI is like a rich spoiled kid... they just want more and more money for less and less work.

PGI is a business, not a damn charity their sole purpose is to make money. So, if they're setting the prices higher for their new content and they're getting enough people to go along with it to make up for those who won't pay the higher price, then obviously they were under pricing their goods before.

Milocinia, on 26 January 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

Battletech/Mechwarrior will always be out there coming from the success of the good ol' tabletop days when all round 'ere were fields. Time moves on though but I've always thought BT translates better to video games than Warhammer does (the TT game not the mech of course).

To be fair, warhammer was designed to sell models first and be a game second. If you look at the state of balance throughout warhammer's history it shows. They are some kick *** models though.

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 26 January 2016 - 09:18 PM.