54 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

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If it could alpha the damage would be 7damage times 12 erMLAS for an 84pt alpha as a 50ton med mech with 5 jump jets. That would be better than good.

And again.... its the stock loadout. theyre the weapons its SUPPOSED to have. a mech should be able to fire its stock loadout without shutting down.

Youve missed the ENTIRE point. When a mech cant fire the weapons its supposed to have theres something obviously wrong with weapon balance in general. Thats all im saying.

Edited by Khobai, 26 January 2016 - 10:20 PM.

[El Bandito]

Khobai, on 26 January 2016 - 09:59 PM, said:

IS mechs make way better fencers due to their vastly superior range.

CERLL only has 10% more range than the ISERLL. But for some dumb reason IS mechs get 25% ERLL quirks. WHY?!

It makes absolutely no sense why the IS range quirks give IS more range than the range advantage clans have over IS in the first place.

Just because PGI is making mess of things on balancing, you shouldn't ask for more balancing mess.

Khobai, on 26 January 2016 - 10:18 PM, said:

And again.... its the stock loadout. theyre the weapons its SUPPOSED to have. a mech should be able to fire its stock loadout without shutting down.

Youve missed the ENTIRE point. When a mech cant fire the weapons its supposed to have theres something obviously wrong with weapon balance in general. Thats all im saying.

No one said the mech must alpha all its loadouts at once. The makers could have intended for the Nova to have enough firepower even when losing one side. The Nova most likely will have better heat reduction quirks than now, once the Clan quirk pass arrives in February, but asking for 12 CERMLs to be fired without shutting down? That's nuts.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 January 2016 - 11:10 PM.

[Mech Jager]

Khobai, on 26 January 2016 - 10:18 PM, said:

And again.... its the stock loadout. theyre the weapons its SUPPOSED to have. a mech should be able to fire its stock loadout without shutting down.

Youve missed the ENTIRE point. When a mech cant fire the weapons its supposed to have theres something obviously wrong with weapon balance in general. Thats all im saying.

No there is something wrong with the stock loadout and the people who day dream any differently. Stock does not have any real place in the way the game plays. The only reason they exist is to make the TT/lore crowd stay and feel validated.

[XX Sulla XX]

Khobai, on 26 January 2016 - 02:55 PM, said:

clan quirks are coming in february supposedly...

IF YOU THOUGHT THE GAME WAS A MESS NOW

I dont think its a mess now. I think over all the balance is as close as its been. Small changes to Clans and buffing worst mechs is all that is needed for now.

[Khobai]

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No there is something wrong with the stock loadout and the people who day dream any differently. Stock does not have any real place in the way the game plays. The only reason they exist is to make the TT/lore crowd stay and feel validated.

Yeah youre wrong. A mech's stock loadout should be what determines the mechs overall role in MWO and what quirks the mech gets.

The Nova should get heat capacity quirks because the whole point of the Nova is firing tons and tons of lasers. it has no other purpose. And thats the ONLY reason to use a nova over other clan mechs. period.

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Just because PGI is making mess of things on balancing, you shouldn't ask for more balancing mess.

How am I asking for more of a balancing mess?

I want clan lasers toned down and IS superquirks removed. I want clan and IS tech normalized at the base level to eliminate the need for IS to crutch on quirks. I want ISXL to survive side torso destruction. I want IS ES/FF buffed. And I want the nova, wnich is undeniably one of the worst clan mechs, to actually be able to function in its role as an energy boat, so its on par with other mechs. It should be use all 12 of its energy hardpoints, even if it means weakening clan lasers to make that happen...

What I want is actual balance. Which is the exact opposite of asking for more of a balancing mess.

Edited by Khobai, 27 January 2016 - 08:24 AM.

[WarHippy]

Khobai, on 26 January 2016 - 02:55 PM, said:

clan quirks are coming in february supposedly...

IF YOU THOUGHT THE GAME WAS A MESS NOW

Mystere, on 26 January 2016 - 03:00 PM, said:

Oh! It's that soon? I thought it was going to be timed for the next Clan pack.

Yeah, but they will probably be negative quirks rather than helpful quirks.

[Dirus Nigh]

This is the problem with thinking that quirks will balance every thing. The foundation of the system is uneven.

Clan equipment is just out right better. More damage, greater range, less weight, less slots. The only thing on the clan side that brings that close to manageable to IS is the raised heat on some weapons, and the small negative quirks. really there should never be a negative quirk.

This is my 2 cents worth of thought on clan tech.

Put the heat back to the original values.
Decrease the range of clan pulse to that of IS standard
Decrease clan laser damage by one point.
Decrease the range of clan ER lasers. To about 12% greater than IS standard.
Decrease the range of clan SRM/streaks to IS standard.
Decrease clan ERPP max range to that of IS' ER PPC

Use the clan targeting computers to boost the clan weapons back to the levels currently in game. If you want that great ER range and damage of the clan equipment then you should have to use clan Tcomps with extra weight and slots. Tcomps could also effect velocity of ER PPs, beam duration, targeting time for streaks/LRMs, target retention, the choke on LBs, and the speed of cAC burst fire.

Also weapon modules can stack with clan Tcomps. As they do already.

For the IS PGI should finally put in the slave system. Slaves can work like clan Tcomps with a difference. Instead of getting a bigger slave unit for better bonus on an individual mech, the number of slave units in a team determines the bonus for all slave equipped IS mechs as a whole. For example if one slave unit gives 2% bonus to laser range, then having 4 IS mechs with slave units give all 4 IS mechs with slave a 8% bonus to laser range

Tcomps and slave units should stack with modules.
PGI could add more modules like beam duration modules, heat reducing modules for weapon types, and damage by weapon type (maybe that one)

There should almost never be a weapon quirk on a mech. With very limited exceptions. If a mech does have them they should be very generic, and give a small bonus. A specific weapon bonus is OK to, but make it fore mechs that have a signature weapon. Such as the HBK's AC20, or the awesomes' PPCs. Again not more than 5%. Bringing a total of 10% when specific weapon quirk is added to a generic quirk. Again modules (and the pilot "skill" tree once PGI makes a brand new one) should be the main source of weapon bonuses. Having this way does two things, it forces the player to make a choice of what to select, and it allows the player to customize as they want.

As for ghost heat, **** it. Lower the heat threshold to 40-45, and add in a real heat scale with intuitive dynamic effects.

Just my thought on things, not saying my idea will "save the game". Just think it might make it better.

[Pjwned]

I wouldn't necessarily be against reverting some nerfs after nerfing quirks, though I don't see the need to revert any nerfs currently.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khobai, on 27 January 2016 - 08:17 AM, said:

It should be use all 12 of its energy hardpoints, even if it means weakening clan lasers to make that happen...

First, that makes no sense, you want Clan lasers to be nerfed harder so that you have to use up more hardpoints/tonnage to keep relevant. That's backwards, especially since being forced to use more lasers reduces the chance of running asymmetrically to corner peak making things worse.
Second, the SCrow already has 13 hardpoints so that still doesn't help the Nova out that much.
Third, the Nova's main problem has been shape and speed. Having the size and speed of an Ebjag without all the benefits is really crappy.

All that said, the Nova isn't terrible, for brawl matches it is still a suitable stand in for the 12 Small Pulse SCrow, it would be nice if Med Pulse (in both tech bases) were a little better to make using them over standard laser vomit or ALL THE SMALL LASERS a little more viable.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 27 January 2016 - 11:02 AM.

[Khobai]

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First, that makes no sense, you want Clan lasers to be nerfed harder so that you have to use up more hardpoints/tonnage to keep relevant

no i want clan lasers nerfed so we can get rid of IS superquirks.

I want the nova to get heat capacity/laser heat reduction quirks so its a better laser boat than other clan mechs. which it rightfully should be. since thats the WHOLE PURPOSE of the nova.

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Second, the SCrow already has 13 hardpoints so that still doesn't help the Nova out that much.

I fail to see your point. no variation of the scrow is supposed to use 12 energy hardpoints. the stormcrow is not meant to be an energy boat. it should not EVER be as good as energy boating as the nova.

the whole point of quirks is to differentiate mechs and make mechs good at the things theyre supposed to be good at in canon. The nova is supposed to be better at using energy weapons than the stormcrow. simple as that.

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That's backwards, especially since being forced to use more lasers reduces the chance of running asymmetrically to corner peak making things worse.

corner peeking should be worse. the fact that some mechs are way better at hillhumping/cornerpeeking than others is one of the reasons why we have such a huge power level disparity between mechs (and why heavies are so much better than assaults). On the whole, the game needs to place much less emphasis on where hardpoints are located. otherwise mechs with low hardpoints will never be worth using. decreasing the individual power level of weapons, especially lasers, helps accomplish that.

Edited by Khobai, 27 January 2016 - 11:25 AM.

[Mech Jager]

Why do people play a different game media and expect it to play like the other one.

This just validates my view that the stock loadouts need to be changed from lore so that they do work in this game and from this point on stock refers to what came on the MWO loadout. People are still free to read and enjoy the BT lore that is also closely incorporated into TT.

This game has elements of BT, and PGI has really tried to incorporate many more for the fans when the golden rule of game balance is more is always more problems.

I only care that PGI balances what is physically affecting online game play and then developing new material for future game play.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khobai, on 27 January 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

no i want clan lasers nerfed so we can get rid of IS superquirks. I want the nova to get heat capacity/laser heat reduction quirks so its a better laser boat than other clan mechs. which it rightfully should be. since thats the WHOLE PURPOSE of the nova.

I'd rather the IS lasers just get a bit more range so they are more useful (iSL/SPL I'm looking at you) and a slight heat reduction, but that's as far as I would go since the biggest quirks currently outside of the range quirks are the structure quirks.

Khobai, on 27 January 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

I fail to see your point. no variation of the scrow is supposed to use 12 energy hardpoints. the stormcrow is not meant to be an energy boat. it should not EVER be as good as energy boating as the nova.

You have to give it pretty big buffs to allow it to compete since the SCrow can run 1 energy hardpoint shy of the max a Nova can run, and with more DHS. Basically you are quirking it to overcome the lack of Endo to give it more tonnage to run DHS.

Khobai, on 27 January 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

decreasing the individual power level of weapons, especially lasers, helps accomplish that.

It just puts more emphasis on big guns instead of boating mediums, because that's how bad exposing all of your mech is.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 27 January 2016 - 01:46 PM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Wouldn't un-nerfing cause TTK to decrease even more. We want TTK to increase.

[Lugin]

Khobai, on 26 January 2016 - 10:18 PM, said:

And again.... its the stock loadout. theyre the weapons its SUPPOSED to have. a mech should be able to fire its stock loadout without shutting down.

Youve missed the ENTIRE point. When a mech cant fire the weapons its supposed to have theres something obviously wrong with weapon balance in general. Thats all im saying.

The Nova's Prime config has ALWAYS been a stupidly hot mech.
Consider that with just an alpha, no movement/jumping that round, it generates 24 excess heat. On a scale where 30+ is a forced shutdown. You're already looking at a shutdown check of 8. Throw in any jump, or run, and you face a check of 10 instead. On 2d6.

Saying that it needs additional heat capacity is... I have no words for how entitled that makes you sound.

Yes, the Nova is a damned hot mech. Use chainfire or smaller groups.

Edited by Lugin, 27 January 2016 - 04:48 PM.

[Lefty Lucy]

cdlord, on 27 January 2016 - 01:47 PM, said:

Wouldn't un-nerfing cause TTK to decrease even more. We want TTK to increase.

Why? I know a lot of players have this gospel concept that slow TTK = "more tactical" but slow or fast TTK the good players still do better than the bad players.