10 replies to this topic

[Altered Metal Status]

Greetings, I've only been playing a little over a week and have been fumbling through certain things as a genuine newb, like lingo and mech info. But thankfully I've learned a lot from these forums and sites like mwo.gamepedia.com. These questions may have already been asked and if so I apologize ahead of time.

I made the mistake of asking many people in game whether endo steel and ferro fibrous were available for all mechs prior to purchasing my first. All I heard was yes and of course I now know that not to be the case after buying a Hellbringer this week for CBills with the sale. It's a fine mech regardless but was wondering whether there was a way to see and determine in-game which mechs have access to which upgrades prior to purchasing them? Correct me if I'm wrong but the mech tooltip that shows upgrade info for each variant seems to just show what upgrades do or do not come preloaded with that variant upon purchase — am I right? I now see that mwo.gamepedia.com does mention the Hellbringer's inability to access these particular upgrades, but is that site the only way to see this info and can I trust that site to be complete prior to purchasing a mech?

Also, I've been using mwo.gamepedia.com a fair bit for some basic info regarding game mechanics and other mech related sorts but frequently find it to be somewhat incomplete, outdated, or ambiguous in some areas. Are there any sites that attempt to do what mwo.gamepedia.com does but better? I'm aware of mech meta sites and the like but they don't fill in the blanks regarding specific info.

Thanks for your time!

[IraqiWalker]

Akel Damascus, on 30 January 2016 - 02:34 AM, said:

Greetings, I've only been playing a little over a week and have been fumbling through certain things as a genuine newb, like lingo and mech info. But thankfully I've learned a lot from these forums and sites like mwo.gamepedia.com. These questions may have already been asked and if so I apologize ahead of time.

I made the mistake of asking many people in game whether endo steel and ferro fibrous were available for all mechs prior to purchasing my first. All I heard was yes and of course I now know that not to be the case after buying a Hellbringer this week for CBills with the sale. It's a fine mech regardless but was wondering whether there was a way to see and determine in-game which mechs have access to which upgrades prior to purchasing them? Correct me if I'm wrong but the mech tooltip that shows upgrade info for each variant seems to just show what upgrades do or do not come preloaded with that variant upon purchase — am I right? I now see that mwo.gamepedia.com does mention the Hellbringer's inability to access these particular upgrades, but is that site the only way to see this info and can I trust that site to be complete prior to purchasing a mech?

Also, I've been using mwo.gamepedia.com a fair bit for some basic info regarding game mechanics and other mech related sorts but frequently find it to be somewhat incomplete, outdated, or ambiguous in some areas. Are there any sites that attempt to do what mwo.gamepedia.com does but better? I'm aware of mech meta sites and the like but they don't fill in the blanks regarding specific info.

Thanks for your time!

Slight clarification needs to be made here.

1- Endo Steel and Ferro are available for BATTLEMECHS, not Omnimechs. The trade off for the Omni system is that their upgrades take half the slots, but are fixed, and can't be changed. Same with their engines.\

2- All the information you need to know about a mech prior to purchase is provided to you in-game. Including which upgrades it comes with.

3- Gamepedia is ancient, and hasn't been updated in forever. I'm honestly surprised they have a page on the Hellbringer.

4- If you click on a mech prior to purchase, and select "Edit in Mechlab" you would be able to actually see if a mech can swap upgrades, or do whatever it is you intend for it to do.

It should have been clarified more easily, but Omnimechs come with predetermined upgrades, that they can't swap. The upswing of that is they can change their body parts to have any hardpoint set they want (from the pool of available variant pods)

Battlemechs are the ones that come with ability to swap upgrades, and engines, but they can't change hardpoints.


EDIT: Like Rogue Jedi mentioned: You should check Smurfy-net.de if you need an out of game resource that is extremely accurate. You can trust the numbers there because they are pulled out of the game data itself.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 30 January 2016 - 03:37 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Akel Damascus, on 30 January 2016 - 02:34 AM, said:

Greetings, I've only been playing a little over a week and have been fumbling through certain things as a genuine newb, like lingo and mech info. But thankfully I've learned a lot from these forums and sites like mwo.gamepedia.com. These questions may have already been asked and if so I apologize ahead of time.

I made the mistake of asking many people in game whether endo steel and ferro fibrous were available for all mechs prior to purchasing my first. All I heard was yes and of course I now know that not to be the case after buying a Hellbringer this week for CBills with the sale. It's a fine mech regardless but was wondering whether there was a way to see and determine in-game which mechs have access to which upgrades prior to purchasing them? Correct me if I'm wrong but the mech tooltip that shows upgrade info for each variant seems to just show what upgrades do or do not come preloaded with that variant upon purchase — am I right? I now see that mwo.gamepedia.com does mention the Hellbringer's inability to access these particular upgrades, but is that site the only way to see this info and can I trust that site to be complete prior to purchasing a mech?

Also, I've been using mwo.gamepedia.com a fair bit for some basic info regarding game mechanics and other mech related sorts but frequently find it to be somewhat incomplete, outdated, or ambiguous in some areas. Are there any sites that attempt to do what mwo.gamepedia.com does but better? I'm aware of mech meta sites and the like but they don't fill in the blanks regarding specific info.

Thanks for your time!

before buying any Mech I recommend visiting mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab and having a play with the Mech to see what you can do and how much it will cost
however to check in game go to the store you can check the load out.
Click on the Mech and bottom center Mech Stats will show up, click on "view in Mechlab" and you can try out different load outs however you cannot save the loadout and it does not tell you the cost like Smurfy does.

smurfy also has a LOT of information available on quirks, stats of Mechs weapons ect.

here is a link to the best guide to MWO I have found
https://docs.google....d.g263f6502b_00
until I found that I was planning to write one myself but I could not do a better job than Kin3ticX did

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 30 January 2016 - 03:39 AM.

[The Basilisk]

Their answers where correct. I see there may be a missconception here.

Endosteel and Ferrofibrous armor are indeed available for all BATTLEMECHS.

The Hellbringer is an Clan OMNIMECH.

Battlemechs in MWO are limited by their hardpoints ( the branch and number of weapons you may mount ) They can change the material of their structure and armor and their kind of heatsinks.
But not the number and type of their hardpoints.

Omnimechs can change Weaponpods ( Omnipods ) and combine, within certain borders, different pods to create a large variaty of different loadouts.
But they are restricted by not beeing able to change engine, ferro/standart armor, endosteel structure and type of heatsinks.

Overall the config process of Omnimechs is more complicated and their weapon loadout can sometimes surprise you. Clan Omnimechs and Battlemechs also use other weapons than IS Mechs.
Those weapons either have a significantly different firing pattern, have greater optimal and maximal ranges than IS Weapons, do sometimes more damage over a longer time, are also lighter tonnagewise and smaler regarding their usage of crits in your Mech.

Edited by The Basilisk, 30 January 2016 - 03:49 AM.

[Cy Mitchell]

I am also new to playing MWO but I at least have a leg up because I have been playing Mechwarrior games off and on since the very first mech computer game was released on DOS.

You got tripped up by the "lingo" as you so eloquently phrased it. It is important to realize that many, if not most, veteran MWO players are RABID Battletech fans. When you ask a questions such as can endo steel be added to any Battlemech then you can usually expect to receive the literal answer to your question from these folks. They, unlike us, differentiate completely a battlemech from an Omnimech. To most new players a mech is a mech is a mech.

The terminology will come with time. So too will the understanding of what goes where and what cannot go where. Hopefully, it will not cost you a bunch of c-bills when you make a mistake. As the others have mentioned there are a lot of excellent information resources available both in game and online. I have just scratched the surface in trying to absorb the available knowledge when researching how to spend my Cadet bonus C-bills.

There are also tons of videos on Youtube that pertain to particualr mech builds, strategy and game play that I find helpful. Now, if I could just find a pill that would enhance my aiming and button pushing skill then I would be golden!

Good luck to you. I hope to see you on the Battlefield sometime.

Edited by rampage, 30 January 2016 - 04:47 AM.

[John1352]

These guys answered the main questions you asked, so I'll just add: Try everything you want on smurfy's mechlab before you buy it, and check armor values. Sometimes I'll be thinking "This build is amazing, all those guns, why isn't everyone using it?" then I realize it has no armor.

You'll be able to see if a mech is able to change engines, endo steel, ferro armor or omnipods when you build it there.

[Altered Metal Status]

Thank you for the great clarifications. I must admit, when I was first hearing mention of battlemechs vs omnimechs it left me with further questions, especially since all mechs in the Store are listed under a "Battlemechs" tab. Is this because all mechs are technically battlemechs while omnimechs are merely a unique non-vanilla battlemech? I don't know my Battletech lore so for now those sorts of things are lost on me.

I also lost as to the reality of how L or R torso destruction results in death due to part of the XL engine extending into them as well — makes sense, but I was pretty confused for a week about why I would sometimes die when my center torso, head, and legs were still intact. Thanks to the forums here I can see why Hellbringer pilots recommend some of the hardpoint changes that they do because of the Prime's default ECM location.

And I'll be sure to check out and toy with things on Smurfy's site. Thanks for helping the lost!

[InspectorG]

metamechs.com for general meta build advice.

Smurfy's to plan a build.

IN GENERAL:

IS mechs will need DHS - First, ENDO - second. FERRO - usually never unless certain lights.
Stock BT builds basically do not work in MWO and armor will need to be 'front loaded'.

CLAN mechs come in 2 flavors:
OMNImechs - no upgrades aside from Artemis. Has equipment that is fixed and cant be moved. Has pods that can be interchanged so you may need to buy new pods to get a meta build.

Regular Clan mechs like the llc series are like IS mechs that are more customiz-able.

Some jargon:

Some mechs can 'Deadside'. This means you put ll the guns on one side and use the other as a shield.
A lost ST/component actually absorbs some incoming damage as it transfers to the next component. Can be greatly used on some mechs like Stalkers.

'Stripping Armor', MWO is about concentrated+coordinated firepower so generally cutting armor for more guns is advantageous.
You will see builds with an arm with no guns and 1 armor. This is normal.

'Ridge/Hill Humping' some mechs have high hardpoint locations, like the main gun on a contemporary tank. Kinda flat-like enabling it to peek up a hill just enough to shoot then immediately peek down to hide. This is good.
The opposite are the 'beltline' hardpoints like on an Altas where you need to expose the whole top-half of your mech in order to shoot over a hill. This makes you a bigger target of course and is detrimental.

'Side poking' essentially hillhumping but sideways. Some mechs have all their guns on one side in a manner that little of the mech is exposed to peek. this is good. Some, like Stalkers can side peek and hill hump well.

LRM boat - this is an all LRM Missile mech. Decent if its a fairly fast medium. Sad if its a slow XLengine Heavy/Assault. You may see lots of LRM as a newb but do not fall for the trap of thinking they are a good weapon. They are not. They have the most hard counters that do not include AMS. Once you get T3, you will see less of them. This weapons system needs work to be fixed.

Hitboxes - are important because some mechs are mis-scaled or shaped poorly and 'bad' hitboxes make it easier to isolate and destroy components thus neutering said mech.

Solo vs Group vs CW play. All modes are DIFFERENT and require different builds even if its just variations on a theme.

Solo is about dealing with random conditions so a generalist build tends to do better unless the pilot in question has strong skills elsewhere - like maining lights or being VERY good with LRM, or brawling.
Main tactic is 'murderball to the center' and the team that 'Sucks Less' tends to win. You need Street Heart to deal with the losing streaks. Carry Harder - ancient proverb. YOU WILL GET FRUSTRATED AND NEGATIVE - WELCOME TO PUGLANDIA.

Group is a team effort based on your Unit. Good units have a leader calling where to move and which enemy to shoot and even which component to shoot on that enemy. Good units do this VERY quickly and will ask teammates to use certain builds to create more synergy.
Solo and Group are similar but have different skill sets. Pilots can be better at one than the other. Good units offer training.
Competitive play will set up pre-agreed upon matches with chosen maps, tonnage limits, objectives. Very scientific.

CW is similar to Group but yo get 4 mechs so there can be more planning to what each wave can accomplish. Yes, more organized, practiced units will, by nature, roll Pugs on average.
CW will tend to have its own meta builds as well because currently range builds are king.

Hope this helps!

[Rogue Jedi]

Akel Damascus, on 30 January 2016 - 06:49 AM, said:

Thank you for the great clarifications. I must admit, when I was first hearing mention of battlemechs vs omnimechs it left me with further questions, especially since all mechs in the Store are listed under a "Battlemechs" tab. Is this because all mechs are technically battlemechs while omnimechs are merely a unique non-vanilla battlemech? I don't know my Battletech lore so for now those sorts of things are lost on me.

I also lost as to the reality of how L or R torso destruction results in death due to part of the XL engine extending into them as well — makes sense, but I was pretty confused for a week about why I would sometimes die when my center torso, head, and legs were still intact. Thanks to the forums here I can see why Hellbringer pilots recommend some of the hardpoint changes that they do because of the Prime's default ECM location.

And I'll be sure to check out and toy with things on Smurfy's site. Thanks for helping the lost!

basicly Omnimehcs were first designed to require less time for repair and refit than Battlemechs, technically they are a type of Battlemech but are designed to be refitted with an alternatave playload in hours thanks to the Omnipods which weapons and equipment are mounted in
Battlemechs required months to modify the weapons and equipment as it is hardwired into the chassis, and took much longer than Omnis to repair.
the Clans developed Omnimechs, and it will probably be years before we start seeing Inner Sphere Omnis

[Leone]

Worry not, the HBR isn't a bad mech, but yes, next time you have questions, come to the forums, we'll hook you up with tons of conflicting opinions.

~Leone.

[IraqiWalker]

Akel Damascus, on 30 January 2016 - 06:49 AM, said:

Thank you for the great clarifications. I must admit, when I was first hearing mention of battlemechs vs omnimechs it left me with further questions, especially since all mechs in the Store are listed under a "Battlemechs" tab. Is this because all mechs are technically battlemechs while omnimechs are merely a unique non-vanilla battlemech? I don't know my Battletech lore so for now those sorts of things are lost on me.

I also lost as to the reality of how L or R torso destruction results in death due to part of the XL engine extending into them as well — makes sense, but I was pretty confused for a week about why I would sometimes die when my center torso, head, and legs were still intact. Thanks to the forums here I can see why Hellbringer pilots recommend some of the hardpoint changes that they do because of the Prime's default ECM location.

And I'll be sure to check out and toy with things on Smurfy's site. Thanks for helping the lost!

Here's the short and dirty of it.

Battlemechs are the ancestors of Omnimechs.

I'm going to avoid getting into the lore, you can go to sarna.net for the detailed lore.

Omni mechs are built differently. In order to accomodate their "pod" system, most of the main equipment is hardwired into the omnimech. So you have a chassis with lots of big holes in it, where you can plug and play weapons, and equipment.

The advantage is that what would require a mech factory, and six months of work with great engineers to do on a battlemech, takes about 6 hours on an omnimech. The downside is that there is equipment that is hardlocked, and can never be removed, whether you like it or not, like the engines.

In the Table Top rules, you could technically rip apart hard locked equipment, and swap them out, but if you do so, you have to turn the mech into a battlemech, instead of an omni mech. So it loses the pod system, and the versatility.