14 replies to this topic

[stocky0904]

Im nobody who normaly complains about what PGI does. But this time i got really angry, because PGI wants to sell me something stupid in this roadmap in telling me it makes my game even better. It doesnt!

Reducing all laser range quirks to 10% because the range of certain (3 or 4) ERLL-builds is to high? Please, explain that to me! In the light of the range advantage the clans already have with all other lasers that is only stupid.

IS builds with SL or MPL or lights that have this quirks will get hit bad, too. Why? Will this make this game really better as you try to make us believe? Im not sure.

The balance atm is the best i saw in the last 3 years. And im playing both sides. To remove the negative quirks from the few clan mechs like SCR and TBR is ok. At the moment everybody can live with that.

But I think this is a bit of an overkill here. PGI went the easiest way to go. Not thinking about changes on one weapon system but using a lawnmower to cut everything down. Very nice!

Congrats to all you clan whiners. Well done!

Edited by stocky0904, 31 January 2016 - 04:43 AM.

[Ratpoison]

Smartest thing they could have done, range quirks over 10% are just a bad and broken idea.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

They are reducing those range quirks heavily so that clans have the definite advantage in range but lose up close. There will probably be other quirks to replace the range so that IS gets solidified further as the superior faction for close range laser brawling.

We don't even really know how its all going to be anyway, I'll wait until the patch gets here to really care either way.

[Johnny Z]

I agree balance has never been better and all the proposed changes sound bad.

[Darian DelFord]

Dakota1000, on 31 January 2016 - 04:48 AM, said:

They are reducing those range quirks heavily so that clans have the definite advantage in range but lose up close.

This is a common mis-conception as an ERLL clan or IS, is just as effective at 800 meters as it is at 20 meters. This is part of the problem with the game. Why stick in Short Range Weapons when you can get the benefit of the Range and damage at max distance.

This is the problem with MWO. I sincerely belive if you make long range weapons less versatile, and have diminishing returns up close, then at lot of this crap range meta we have now will go away. You should start seeing a more balanced load outs.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Darian DelFord, on 31 January 2016 - 04:59 AM, said:

This is a common mis-conception as an ERLL clan or IS, is just as effective at 800 meters as it is at 20 meters. This is part of the problem with the game. Why stick in Short Range Weapons when you can get the benefit of the Range and damage at max distance.

This is the problem with MWO. I sincerely belive if you make long range weapons less versatile, and have diminishing returns up close, then at lot of this crap range meta we have now will go away. You should start seeing a more balanced load outs.

You fail to realize that in MWO you pay for that range in heat, and in the case of lasers duration also. I could have a single clan ERLL and generate 10 heat for 11 damage over the course of 1.5 seconds or I could have 3 small pulse lasers and do 18 damage for only 9 heat with a beam time half as long at 0.75 seconds all for one ton less. A dedicated short range loadout has a massive advantage over a dedicated long range fighter. The long range weapons still do their damage up close, but are far less effective to other weapons built for that range.

Spoiler

And before anyone mentions gauss being effective up close just compare it to a UAC20 at that same range and while you are at it just realize how much of a death trap your mech becomes once the armor covering it breaks

[Darian DelFord]

Dakota1000, on 31 January 2016 - 05:05 AM, said:

You fail to realize that in MWO you pay for that range in heat, and in the case of lasers duration also. I could have a single clan ERLL and generate 10 heat for 11 damage over the course of 1.5 seconds or I could have 3 small pulse lasers and do 18 damage for only 9 heat with a beam time half as long at 0.75 seconds all for one ton less. A dedicated short range loadout has a massive advantage over a dedicated long range fighter. The long range weapons still do their damage up close, but are far less effective to other weapons built for that range.

Spoiler

And before anyone mentions gauss being effective up close just compare it to a UAC20 at that same range and while you are at it just realize how much of a death trap your mech becomes once the armor covering it breaks

Until you bring quirks into the fold. Then EVERYTHING changes, and Long Range Lasers especially pulse lasers are just as effective up close as at range, with a HUGE range advantage.

Quirks as they did it was a complete and utter failure, hence the reasoning they are having to do massive requirkings almost every month now.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 31 January 2016 - 05:23 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

I'm more pissed off at the proposed removal of negative quirks on the already dominating Timberwolf and Stormcrow.

I couldn't care less about those range quirks.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Darian DelFord, on 31 January 2016 - 05:22 AM, said:

Until you bring quirks into the fold. Then EVERYTHING changes, and Long Range Lasers especially pulse lasers are just as effective up close as at range, with a HUGE range advantage.

Quirks as they did it was a complete and utter failure, hence the reasoning they are having to do massive requirkings almost every month now.

Well, if you are just going to use quirks to make whatever it is you have better then I'm going to say that whatever I am using up close also gets a bunch of quirk bonuses to make it even more OP.



This isn't how we do an argument. I busted out numbers and everything but you didn't. I really was hoping for more.

[Darian DelFord]

Dakota1000, on 31 January 2016 - 05:27 AM, said:

Well, if you are just going to use quirks to make whatever it is you have better then I'm going to say that whatever I am using up close also gets a bunch of quirk bonuses to make it even more OP.



This isn't how we do an argument. I busted out numbers and everything but you didn't. I really was hoping for more.

At work (

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Darian DelFord, on 31 January 2016 - 05:28 AM, said:

At work (

Oh well, guess we can get into a proper analysis of stats based on each other's arguments later on then.

[Alistair Winter]

With so much customization and quirks, the difference between Inner Sphere and Clans is negligible to begin with. Depending on whether you're playing CW or public matches, you pick the mech with the relevant hardpoints and quirks and you engage in ERLLpoking or pulse vomit.

On top of that, a lot of people actually want Clan XLs to be the same as IS XL engines, and give all clan mechs full freedom to remove hard mounted items, replace FF with Endo, etc. For the sake of balance, they want to remove all flavour from the factions, untill we've basically got identical mechs with different skins. Reduce Clan laser duration, increase IS laser range, etc.

Personally, I'd rather let PGI try to balance two seperate, interesting experiences, instead of just putting everything in a blender and putting a vanilla flavour on everything.

[Russhuster]

if the Goal is to make two sides equal, that will be the only way
So when everyone is asking to balance every bit and bat to equal that is the result

When everything is in balance there is no room for diversity

Edited by Russhuster, 31 January 2016 - 06:34 AM.

[Mechteric]

Wah they're balancing my robut, wahhhhhhh!

[DivineEvil]

I fully support those changes. Extreme Energy Range quirks made too many Laser types equal if not better than Clan analogues. IS Lasers already has definite advantages over Clan ones, so in general the changes are going to make them equal. If there's nothing some people can do except for silly ERLL trades, then at least both parties should be ok doing that.

The validity of changes mainly will depend on whether PGI will actually compensate these reductions with something else, otherwise it will plainly nerf many variants of those mechs, compared to others, which essentially turn them inferior.

Removal of negative quirks is also fine by me. They were not that much severe to begin with, and their removal is not going to change much, except making those mechs look clean as a lower standard for quirks in general.