42 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

DavidStarr, on 02 February 2016 - 06:56 AM, said:

Thanks for resolving the cognitive dissonance I've been having regarding the "XL" abbreviation I though it means extra large, but clearly that's not what it is based on the effects observable in the mechlab. And while we're at it, could you please explain how engine type affects survivability? I don't see any such effects in the Smurfy's configurator or in the mechlab. The armor amount doesn't depend on the engine.


It seems that I can put one more heatsink on after switching the engine: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bca15419ddda280
One more thing I don't get is why didn't they remove all armor from the empty right arm.

You actually get one less heatsink. (250 comes with 10, 200 comes with 8.) (Engine ratings give one heatsink per 25 'power'. So a standard 60 of an Urbanmech gives 2 heatsinks (25 + 25). The standard 100 gives 4 heatsinks (25 + 25 + 25 + 25). 200 gives 8, 250 gives 10. And it stops giving them away at 10, so 275 gives you a free 'slot' for one instead.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bca15419ddda280 XL 255, 15 DHS.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...608e624d6c59b2a The standard engine mod, 14 DHS (with the heatsink you added.)

(Should also note: 275 gives you around 100 kph on a 50 ton mech; so that 255 isn't really that fast to begin with; it'll be slower than the first HBK 4G video I posted when I wanting to change your opinion on HBKs; as that has an XL 275. But by the time someone actually shot me, I just exploded. All I had to do was even say "I have an XL" in chat... and boom, instantly killed.)

Fragility, this could be explained in so many ways. Technically, an engine fails if it loses 3 "crit slots".

The Standard engine has 6 crit slots and are all contained in the center torso. Lose 3, engine fails. Lose the center torso, you lose 6 and the engine has clearly failed. Not to mention no parts left. Lose a side torso, it can then remove 60% of ALL incoming damage dealt to it after it had been destroyed, before that damage is transferred to the center torso.

An Inner Sphere XL engine has 12 slots, but only 6 slots can be consumed by an engine in the the center torso. This means that 3 spill into each side torso. Lose 3, your engine is dead. Lose a side torso, lose 3 slots of engine, lose your engine. A side torso is MUCH easier to destroy than the center torso.

A Clan XL engine has only 10 slots, and 2 spill into each side torso. This sounds unfair and in MWO, it really was (it now throws in so many slap on the wrist penalties that it is almost fair; but if you're trying to kill a Clanner by the torso you should be dragged out to the road and shot anyway; go for the legs).

It's a ~lot~ more fair in the source material between through-armor criticals, drastic consequences for ANY damage to engine, etc.
Related but not:

Spoiler

I once had a Nova (also nicknamed a Blackhawk) lose its side torso. Because the real BT Novas do not have torso twist or a pelvis, losing the left torso removed one arm and one leg. In addition, 2 engine crits was adding 10 heat per 10 seconds with a shutdown threshold of 30 and a massive side effect threshold that begins above 46% heat. Add to this pilot fatigue and pilot injury. I'm physically injured, my mech has one leg [it's completely gone!], I'm not even able to limp so I have to jumpjet with an uneven set of jumpjets. It's hotter than hell, sweat going into my eyes reducing weapon and piloting accuracy. I'm having to fight 'black outs' as in I could lose consciousness. And I'm having to run from a Battlemaster who just kicked a Dire Wolf, breaking two of its actuators before SRM'ing, lasering, and PUNCHING it to death. And I just barely killed the Shadowhawk that was helping it.

There was an Adder (nicknamed Puma) that tried to help, but no sooner than he emerged from the building he just blasted through, the Battlemaster ran up and tackled it, breaking the Adder's leg, and then cockpit shot the Adder while it tried to get up. Sucks to be too close to your target.

I managed jumping over buildings, jumping over some 60 meters (length) of forest, Found a legged Locust that I legged early in the fight and left there. It was in deplorable condition, it couldn't get up. With my lasers on 3/7ths power to keep the heat low, I fired 6 ER MLs at it (each laser doing 3/7th damages to generate 1 heat each). The heat was so intense I had to remain still for a while and almost lost consciousness. Battlemaster was catching up, bulldozing through trees. Along the way he picked one up. In this process, I managed to melt yet another heatsink. I'm down to 5 DHS.

I leaped again, managing to vault over a wall. Sure, the Battlemaster COULD attempt to climb that wall, but he chose to go around to the gate. He didn't want to drop that tree. Personally, I didn't make it over the wall unscathed. The toe hit the wall. I toppled forward. The Transplast® transparent armor plating had been roughed up and breached. Part of it is now in my gut, ensuring that if I did win this fight I would be still be dead. Still, I'm going out shooting. I won't let this freebirth filth take me without a fight.

Still, after getting up (with 1 failed attempts), I shut the engine off. I couldn't cool artificially. I couldn't heat up.

Some 30 seconds later, he came at me. Though I waited with the engine off, another DHS had melted in this time bringing me down to 4. The sheer heat of my engine damage is astronomical. I flipped it on and I waited another 10 seconds, I wanted my enemy to be close enough to make out past the blur of my eyes so I could hit him. It didn't help that the HUD had stopped working when the cockpit armor had been breached. The air... outside air... smelled toxic with the smoke billowing from my machine. "Come on, you dishonorable *******!" I shouted out to him. But as I shouted again, something was wrong. "Try your barba...ric.." No. Not now. "melee skills...on me...n--"

I blacked out, finally. I lasted between a minute and 20 to a minute and 30 seconds before losing consciousness. As it happens, between a minute and 30 to a minute and 40 seconds, the engine shut down.

The Battlemaster walked up to my 'Mech...and shoved the tree branch-end fist into the cockpit...and twisted it.

Battlemasters are lunatics.
(Actual online tabletop battle description; Koniving versus Lordred.)

To note: An Extra Light engine is extra large. The material is lighter, thinner...and a bit too flexible, so like cardboard it is layered, filled in, layered again...and the end result is it is thicker yet lighter with about the same strength.
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Removing the armor on the arm can be done, and with how small the arms are it probably wouldn't matter... But if your arm can take the abuse in place of your torso, why depreciate it? It's that much more of a buffer protecting you.

Edited by Koniving, 02 February 2016 - 07:51 AM.

[GotShotALot]

Playing a long-range sniper or LRM is a perfectly understandable desire.

Pros:
-You get to see how a few battles shape up from a further perspective.
-You get to 'phone in' some damage and spend a little time considering targets and locations.
-You usually live a bit longer before disappearing in a fireball of incoming damage.

Cons:
-As others have said, you end up learning all the wrong skills to do well in the overall game.
-You don't usually do much 'effective' damage (meaning damage that leads to a kill)

That is part of why people suggest a more active/maneuvering role. The other thing to keep in mind is, when experienced players say 'we recommend mech X', they don't mean "you will probably live long and prosper in this mech".

They most likely mean "you will die horribly in any number of ways, however such deaths will teach you to defend/position yourself better. This mech, once you learn those ways, is capable of both defending itself and dishing out the return damage".

I did a writeup of my first 25 battles, if you want some vicarious battle experience it is here:
http://mwomercs.com/...es-first-mechs/

The main things I learned was that 'survival' was mostly based on my speed, maneuverability, and not walking around corners unless I had a pretty good idea what was on the other side of them.

My 'damage' was mostly based on having 2 good, simple, complementary weapons (like, 2 Large Lasers and 3-4 mediums) that I could set up as sort of a 1-2 punch (for my 2-button mouse, yours may allow 3+ weapons groups).

Lastly, my 'match score' or damage-per-match relied on both my heat sink capacity (how many times can I unload my weapons before overheat) and my remembering to back off and take cover when I am near heat capacity, to cool down. Overheat/shutdown in front of an enemy mech is pretty much a death sentence.

You don't need a huge pile of weapons. What you need is the speed to get your mech to a shooting position, the weapons to get a good punch in, and the discipline to back out and cool down. Lather, rinse, repeat for maximum effect.

[Leone]

DavidStarr, on 02 February 2016 - 06:56 AM, said:

One more thing I don't get is why didn't they remove all armor from the empty right arm.

It is a build consideration based probably as much on playstyle an preference as anything else. Alotta folk tweak their builds for thier own styles. Personally, I will downgrade armour on a dead side arm because some people tend to aim for smoking components, an I want them aiming away from my important bits. Other's would rather have more capacity for tanking while twisting. It's a choice. See what works best for you an incorporate it inna your builds.

~Leone.