I've just finished my cadet levels and wanted to try buying and building a mech of my own. So far I've mostly played with the trial Enforcer, which was OK but not quite what I wanted.
This is the build I'm looking at -- a Blackjack 1X that tries to be a useful laser sniper without sacrificing too much up-close capability. Thoughts?
1
11 replies to this topic
#2
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- The Boombox
- 4,469 posts
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Posted 06 February 2016 - 08:20 AM
Use this build, fire 4 at a time.
Your build has a STD engine when most BJs can safely run XL giving you more speed/quickness/free weight.
The BJ-1 has the (soon to be nerfed) E Range quirks, if you are looking for sniping.
You want 8 back armor for STs/CT
You dont need Ferro because its a waste and only used on a handful of light builds.
Use this for reference when building.
Hope this helps.
Your build has a STD engine when most BJs can safely run XL giving you more speed/quickness/free weight.
The BJ-1 has the (soon to be nerfed) E Range quirks, if you are looking for sniping.
You want 8 back armor for STs/CT
You dont need Ferro because its a waste and only used on a handful of light builds.
Use this for reference when building.
Hope this helps.
#3
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- Littlest Helper
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- LocationThe Far Country
Posted 06 February 2016 - 08:21 AM
It's not good at anything. It's only ok at a couple things. That's why it stinks.
#4
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- Mercenary Rank 3
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Posted 06 February 2016 - 08:21 AM
IMO pick 1 or the other.
LLs will run a little cooler with a bit less range than the erLL, or run the fairly standard 6ML+2MPL build that the 1x does very, very well.
If range is your thing, can also try 3 erLL and forgo the MLs (or try 4erLL but that may be warm).
LLs will run a little cooler with a bit less range than the erLL, or run the fairly standard 6ML+2MPL build that the 1x does very, very well.
If range is your thing, can also try 3 erLL and forgo the MLs (or try 4erLL but that may be warm).
#5
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- Guardian
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Posted 06 February 2016 - 08:26 AM
Hang on a minute, let me go into a lot more depth than the others so far have.
Alright, so the first thing to ask yourself when selecting a 'mech is 'what can it do?'
The BJ-1X can:
The second thing to ask yourself is 'what are its strengths?'
The BJ-1X's strengths are:
The third thing is 'what is it better at than comparable 'mechs?'
In this case, you're going to want to compare the BJ-1X to:
Finally, you want to consider the question 'what are its weaknesses?'
The weaknesses of the BJ-1X are:
Then you pretty much roll it all together.
Different pilots have different priorities based on how they pilot, how they shoot, what their habits are, how likely they are to take a shot that might not hit, where they prefer to be during a fight, how hard they will ride an iffy heat curve, when they pull back from combat, et cetera.
In my case, my view on the BJ-1X runs like this:
This being a Blackjack means a specific body shape that is good mostly for two things- soaking damage with a side torso from side-on, and peering just over a hill to shoot someone. It's better at peeking over things than any non-Blackjack lower-weight Medium 'mechs, and probably better at it than any non-Blackjack Medium 'mech, period. So it should be constructed primarily for one of these two things.
When it comes to peeking over obstructions at targets, you're going to be better at that the more places you can get into. This means that this Blackjack is going to be worse at that activity than the BJ-3, since the 3 has jump jets and the 1X does not. Since I have a 3 that's kitted out for hill-humping, I probably don't want to take a different variant to do basically the same thing, unless there's some other advantage I can get for hill-humping.
In this case, that would be the larger engine cap. My BJ-3 has only a 225 engine in it- but that gives it an 87 kph top speed after Speed Tweak. If I'm going to get an advantage out of a speed difference, I want that speed difference to be as big as possible, so a 295 engine (or as close to it as I can reasonably get) is the way to go here.
If I'm not going to hill-hump with this thing, I'm going to be brawling or ambushing with a large engine- the defining feature of this Blackjack compared to all other Blackjack is a very high maximum engine size. If I'm not going to use that, I might as well take a different Blackjack and benefit from a different defining trait. That large engine is a large tonnage investment, and that means not having much weight left. Low-weight energy weapons are for close combat, so brawling, fire-and-duck, or fire-and-leave are the only really good options here. Particularly since energy weapons run hot, and that means consuming more tonnage for heat sinks.
106 (114 with Speed Tweak) is not fast enough to escape all or even most 'mechs that are dangerous to a Blackjack, and the structure boosts make it unnaturally durable for a 45-tonne chassis, so fire-and-leave is out, and fire-and-duck makes poor use of the 'mech's quirks. Especially since the heat and refire rate quirks mean that it's better at protracted combat than a 'mech that lacks those quirks. The range quirk will also help offset the low range of light energy weapons a little, so light energy weapons are a good way to go.
That means that ER Large Lasers are proscribed (that is to say, the situation and experience advises against them) for this 'mech- it doesn't want to be sniping from far away, they're hotter than warranted up close, and they not only weigh more compared to damage output than smaller lasers, they have a longer burn time. That longer burn time means more of their firing cycle is not reduced by the 'energy refire rate' quirk, and the pilot has to stay facing the enemy for longer when they would rather turn or twist to the side to present a smaller and harder to hit target. Even regular Large Lasers would be pushing it here.
With that in mind, I would most likely do one of three things:
MWO:Mechlab - BJ-1X
This is a bit on the hot side. It doesn't use as large an engine as I'd want, but it runs a Standard engine so that it can lose a side torso and still keep gunning. This is a bit of a metagame choice- nearly all Blackjacks are XL-engine users, which means that enemies will typically try to tear out a side torso. Continuing to run and gun when that happens can be a very nasty surprise for them. However, that's at a significant expense in tonnage, which means loss of heat sinks, shaving a little armor, and having a pair of small lasers in the torso to fill the weapons complement. Virtually nobody who isn't me would do this, but it's the kind of thing that I have a habit of making work better for me than the more typical builds would.
MWO:Mechlab - BJ-1X
This is a fairly common 'efficiency' loadout. The engine is a 280 XL because in XL engines, the 280 and 275 are the same tonnage, and because this leaves you the right amount of empty mass to create a balanced loadout, with one side the same as the other. The medium pulse lasers' low burn time means less time facing an enemy per burst of fire, which means more time side-on making it harder to hit you. The torso lasers are not to be fired until/unless you're using your last burst- either before exploding, to kill a crippled 'mech, or before leaving the main fight (either by running off or by hiding, both done to get time to cool down). The added damage is good in an ambush, but you can't lean on it too hard or you'll overheat and shut down standing in front of a foe. Not a good way to increase your life expectancy.
MWO:Mechlab - BJ-1X
Finally, we have the 'maximum firing time' build. As with the previous one, we skip the torso lasers most firing cycles (ghost heat is painful), but they're there when we need them for a burst of improved damage. Dropping everything to standard medium lasers buys us precious tonnage, and losing Ferro and Endo construction increases the space available for double heat sinks. This also lets you have the maximum engine without any sacrifices beyond driving an XL Blackjack. The damage rate is lower than the second example, but you can keep it up for significantly longer before you need to hide or retreat for a cooloff.
Finally, the thing to keep in mind that many don't is that these are all builds you can and should modify if your experience warrants. Example one is faster than you really need but not putting out enough damage? Reduce the engine for better weapons. Example two runs just a little too hot? Swap two pulse lasers down to regular or drop the torso lasers and take either more sinks or a larger engine. Et cetera.
Never be afraid to 'tweak' a build, don't even be afraid of the C-bill cost. That's more time practicing in your 'mech as you build up money and more time to get better both in general and at using the 'mechs you've already built.
Happy sploding.
-QKD-CR0
Alright, so the first thing to ask yourself when selecting a 'mech is 'what can it do?'
The BJ-1X can:
- run at a fast clip, since its largest possible engine gives it a 106 kph top speed before Speed Tweak.
- mount up to eight energy weapons.
- fire energy weapons faster and farther at the same total heat rate as other 'mechs will typically fire slower and closer.
The second thing to ask yourself is 'what are its strengths?'
The BJ-1X's strengths are:
- using energy weapons more efficiently.
- dodging.
- tanking damage beyond its weight.
- being harder to hit side-on because of its flat torso.
- peering over hills because of high arm mounts.
- tiny, difficult to hit arms.
The third thing is 'what is it better at than comparable 'mechs?'
In this case, you're going to want to compare the BJ-1X to:
- other Blackjacks.
- Cicadas, because they are fast, almost the same tonnage and many of them are also energy rafts.
- Vindicators, because they are the same tonnage and are also mostly energy rafts.
- Crabs, because they are fast, almost the same tonnage, and they are all energy rafts.
Finally, you want to consider the question 'what are its weaknesses?'
The weaknesses of the BJ-1X are:
- no jump jets.
- its 45-tonne weight means it's lighter than most other Medium 'mechs.
- the body shape makes it easy to shoot in the open when it's facing an enemy.
- its center torso is big from the front.
- its side torsos are big from the back.
Then you pretty much roll it all together.
Different pilots have different priorities based on how they pilot, how they shoot, what their habits are, how likely they are to take a shot that might not hit, where they prefer to be during a fight, how hard they will ride an iffy heat curve, when they pull back from combat, et cetera.
In my case, my view on the BJ-1X runs like this:
This being a Blackjack means a specific body shape that is good mostly for two things- soaking damage with a side torso from side-on, and peering just over a hill to shoot someone. It's better at peeking over things than any non-Blackjack lower-weight Medium 'mechs, and probably better at it than any non-Blackjack Medium 'mech, period. So it should be constructed primarily for one of these two things.
When it comes to peeking over obstructions at targets, you're going to be better at that the more places you can get into. This means that this Blackjack is going to be worse at that activity than the BJ-3, since the 3 has jump jets and the 1X does not. Since I have a 3 that's kitted out for hill-humping, I probably don't want to take a different variant to do basically the same thing, unless there's some other advantage I can get for hill-humping.
In this case, that would be the larger engine cap. My BJ-3 has only a 225 engine in it- but that gives it an 87 kph top speed after Speed Tweak. If I'm going to get an advantage out of a speed difference, I want that speed difference to be as big as possible, so a 295 engine (or as close to it as I can reasonably get) is the way to go here.
If I'm not going to hill-hump with this thing, I'm going to be brawling or ambushing with a large engine- the defining feature of this Blackjack compared to all other Blackjack is a very high maximum engine size. If I'm not going to use that, I might as well take a different Blackjack and benefit from a different defining trait. That large engine is a large tonnage investment, and that means not having much weight left. Low-weight energy weapons are for close combat, so brawling, fire-and-duck, or fire-and-leave are the only really good options here. Particularly since energy weapons run hot, and that means consuming more tonnage for heat sinks.
106 (114 with Speed Tweak) is not fast enough to escape all or even most 'mechs that are dangerous to a Blackjack, and the structure boosts make it unnaturally durable for a 45-tonne chassis, so fire-and-leave is out, and fire-and-duck makes poor use of the 'mech's quirks. Especially since the heat and refire rate quirks mean that it's better at protracted combat than a 'mech that lacks those quirks. The range quirk will also help offset the low range of light energy weapons a little, so light energy weapons are a good way to go.
That means that ER Large Lasers are proscribed (that is to say, the situation and experience advises against them) for this 'mech- it doesn't want to be sniping from far away, they're hotter than warranted up close, and they not only weigh more compared to damage output than smaller lasers, they have a longer burn time. That longer burn time means more of their firing cycle is not reduced by the 'energy refire rate' quirk, and the pilot has to stay facing the enemy for longer when they would rather turn or twist to the side to present a smaller and harder to hit target. Even regular Large Lasers would be pushing it here.
With that in mind, I would most likely do one of three things:
MWO:Mechlab - BJ-1X
This is a bit on the hot side. It doesn't use as large an engine as I'd want, but it runs a Standard engine so that it can lose a side torso and still keep gunning. This is a bit of a metagame choice- nearly all Blackjacks are XL-engine users, which means that enemies will typically try to tear out a side torso. Continuing to run and gun when that happens can be a very nasty surprise for them. However, that's at a significant expense in tonnage, which means loss of heat sinks, shaving a little armor, and having a pair of small lasers in the torso to fill the weapons complement. Virtually nobody who isn't me would do this, but it's the kind of thing that I have a habit of making work better for me than the more typical builds would.
MWO:Mechlab - BJ-1X
This is a fairly common 'efficiency' loadout. The engine is a 280 XL because in XL engines, the 280 and 275 are the same tonnage, and because this leaves you the right amount of empty mass to create a balanced loadout, with one side the same as the other. The medium pulse lasers' low burn time means less time facing an enemy per burst of fire, which means more time side-on making it harder to hit you. The torso lasers are not to be fired until/unless you're using your last burst- either before exploding, to kill a crippled 'mech, or before leaving the main fight (either by running off or by hiding, both done to get time to cool down). The added damage is good in an ambush, but you can't lean on it too hard or you'll overheat and shut down standing in front of a foe. Not a good way to increase your life expectancy.
MWO:Mechlab - BJ-1X
Finally, we have the 'maximum firing time' build. As with the previous one, we skip the torso lasers most firing cycles (ghost heat is painful), but they're there when we need them for a burst of improved damage. Dropping everything to standard medium lasers buys us precious tonnage, and losing Ferro and Endo construction increases the space available for double heat sinks. This also lets you have the maximum engine without any sacrifices beyond driving an XL Blackjack. The damage rate is lower than the second example, but you can keep it up for significantly longer before you need to hide or retreat for a cooloff.
Finally, the thing to keep in mind that many don't is that these are all builds you can and should modify if your experience warrants. Example one is faster than you really need but not putting out enough damage? Reduce the engine for better weapons. Example two runs just a little too hot? Swap two pulse lasers down to regular or drop the torso lasers and take either more sinks or a larger engine. Et cetera.
Never be afraid to 'tweak' a build, don't even be afraid of the C-bill cost. That's more time practicing in your 'mech as you build up money and more time to get better both in general and at using the 'mechs you've already built.
Happy sploding.
-QKD-CR0
Edited by Quickdraw Crobat, 06 February 2016 - 09:13 AM.
#7
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- The Seeker
- 8,625 posts
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- LocationSeraphim HQ: Asuncion
Posted 06 February 2016 - 08:36 AM
I'm not overly familiar with Blackjacks, but your build doesn't seem too bad to me. Looks like it could use a bit more punch in my opinion.
Some suggestions I might have for you, based on your original stated intentions. My linked build has a larger XL engine (because someone here said they were reasonable with them), more back armor, and two extra medium lasers. It will run a little hotter than before if you alpha everything, so try to use things in their proper ranges, or learn to control your fire.
You could always change out the ERLLs for normal LLs, but the heat savings isn't really there anymore. (Unlike the older days. Did they nerf ER heat when I wasn't looking?) I'd probably keep the ERLLs, and make sure they get placed on the highest energy hardpoint on your mech. You'll want them up high to shoot over stuff.
Some suggestions I might have for you, based on your original stated intentions. My linked build has a larger XL engine (because someone here said they were reasonable with them), more back armor, and two extra medium lasers. It will run a little hotter than before if you alpha everything, so try to use things in their proper ranges, or learn to control your fire.
You could always change out the ERLLs for normal LLs, but the heat savings isn't really there anymore. (Unlike the older days. Did they nerf ER heat when I wasn't looking?) I'd probably keep the ERLLs, and make sure they get placed on the highest energy hardpoint on your mech. You'll want them up high to shoot over stuff.
#8
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- The Ominous
- 1,573 posts
Member
Posted 06 February 2016 - 08:39 AM
Well, this is no the worst build I've seen, but meh.
Mostly because you start with the wrong idea: "be a useful laser sniper without sacrificing too much up-close capability" is silly, that means you will carry dead weight just in case and never be at your full potential.
Also, you're slow
No, alpha strike. If you're using 6 standard lasers and 2 pulses it's to be able to alpha strike without ghost heat.
Mostly because you start with the wrong idea: "be a useful laser sniper without sacrificing too much up-close capability" is silly, that means you will carry dead weight just in case and never be at your full potential.
Also, you're slow
- STD245 : 245 is a realy bad engine rating, since it only includes 9 internal heatsinks (out of 10 at max, for 250 and higher engines). Internal DHS dissipate 2 heat, when external DHS only dissipate 1.4, so if possible try to reach the 250 engine rating.
- your build does not take advantage of the strenghts of the BJ-1X chassis: high engine rating (up to 295) and 8 energy hardpoints. If you dont you'd better make the same build on the BJ-3 to benefit from better quirks and jumpjet capabilities.
- since you're not using all the hardpoints, at least you can make an educated choice of which one you'll use, and take advantage of that by building an asymetrical mech. That way you'll be able to corner peak and use your left side as a shield and damage buffer (like this : this is not a good build yet, but it's beter without the need to buy anything)
- I don't like the ERLLas + MLas combo. You have two very long range weapon, and two close/medium range weapons. If you position yourself in order to use the ERLLas, you won't be able to use your MLas (and then maybe you should mount another ERLLas instead). If you position yourself in order to use the MLas, then you should use standard LLas.
- to be honest, not using a 280+ engine rating on the BJ-1X is a waste of potential (that will most likely mean an XL engine). If you want a sniper (3 ERLLas) you need to be fast. If you want a brawler (6MLas+2MPLas) you need to be fast as well.
InspectorG, on 06 February 2016 - 08:20 AM, said:
No, alpha strike. If you're using 6 standard lasers and 2 pulses it's to be able to alpha strike without ghost heat.
#9
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- The Boombox
- 4,469 posts
Member
- LocationCleveland, Ohio
Posted 06 February 2016 - 08:41 AM
epikt, on 06 February 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:
No, alpha strike. If you're using 6 standard lasers and 2 pulses it's to be able to alpha strike without ghost heat.
Derp, tru dat.
Was typing as i am getting ready to take my better-half to work. Good eye.
#10
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- The Jaws
- 110 posts
Member
Posted 06 February 2016 - 08:55 AM
Metamechs is amazing. Thanks for pointing me that direction.
The "laser vomit" build for the 1X looks like the better version of what I was trying to do. Weirdly, though, I haven't been able to recreate it. With what looks like an identical build I come in one ton short. Any idea what I might be missing?
The "laser vomit" build for the 1X looks like the better version of what I was trying to do. Weirdly, though, I haven't been able to recreate it. With what looks like an identical build I come in one ton short. Any idea what I might be missing?
#11
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- The Ominous
- 1,573 posts
Member
Posted 06 February 2016 - 09:01 AM
TacoJ, on 06 February 2016 - 08:55 AM, said:
The "laser vomit" build for the 1X looks like the better version of what I was trying to do. Weirdly, though, I haven't been able to recreate it. With what looks like an identical build I come in one ton short. Any idea what I might be missing?
Zero armor on the dead arm.
Also, beware, this mech is not a sniper. This is a mid-range mech.
edit: or if by "one ton short" you mean you have one remaining free ton, it's because you didn't filled the DHS slot in the engine
Edited by epikt, 06 February 2016 - 09:03 AM.
#12
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- Guardian
- 1,326 posts
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Posted 06 February 2016 - 09:17 AM
Quickdraw Crobat, on 06 February 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:
a response
Here, have a full-on analysis.
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