98 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

Davegt27, on 02 February 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

The rate of fire for my CUAC2 is so slow I just laugh

I keep my dakka TW build around so I can just stare at it in the Mech lab and cry in my cornflakes

Man that thing used to rip mechs apart

When PGI says they are going to buff something (like MASC) I just say please don’t you will just screw it up

Good point. I have tried to make the Ac 2 work several times with not even a little bit of success. The LBX 10 as well, on different mechs.

In fact going to take my long time in storage fully equipped triple AC 2 hunchback out for a spin. I keep it around on principle. Will come back with how it went.

Could have gone worse....

Edited by Johnny Z, 02 February 2016 - 04:52 PM.

[Dingo Battler]

Not just lasers, but a few wepons are boated over and over

Good: Lasers (Except for cERLL), Gauss, IS Ballistics

Average: SRMs, cBallistics

Crap: PPC, LBX, cERLL, MG, flamers

Feast or Famine: LRMs

So there are quite a few weapons that can be boated. The best builds tend to be some kind of gauss vomit on the heavier builds, and laser voms on the lighter ones. IS ballistics are still heavily used in the meta. This is why noskill scrubs keep petitioning for gauss to have no charge time, so that even noobs can use it.

The problem is moving the crap-tier weapons upwards. PPC is a big one, that needs either less heat, or more damage. Gauss is far superior to PPC in every single conceivable way. The LBX is literally a bug, which was supposed to be able to switch firing modes. Hopefully the new cryengine will fix that. cERLL was just unfairly nerfed.

LRM is the most controversial weapon of all, because its feast or famine. It's almost critical to have it in maps like polar, fantastic to have in maps like tourmalie, and crap in matches like mining.

[Roadkill]

FupDup, on 02 February 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:

This is the same guy who plays with a joystick and uses it to judge weapon balance (e.g. charge up mechanism), so it's just par for the course.

Don't knock a joystick. If you have a good one and it's properly configured, a joystick gives some big advantages over mouse/keyboard. Analog turning is huge in a brawl, for example.

I suspect that an ideal setup would be joystick + mouse. Joystick for turning/throttle, mouse for torso/aiming.

[Wintersdark]

Roadkill, on 02 February 2016 - 04:56 PM, said:

Don't knock a joystick. If you have a good one and it's properly configured, a joystick gives some big advantages over mouse/keyboard. Analog turning is huge in a brawl, for example.

I suspect that an ideal setup would be joystick + mouse. Joystick for turning/throttle, mouse for torso/aiming.

Best setup I've seen is a good throttle and mouse. A good throttle with sufficient buttons to not need a keyboard at all, and to handle analog throttle control and turning, with the mouse for aiming.

[Void Angel]

Roadkill, on 02 February 2016 - 04:56 PM, said:

Don't knock a joystick. If you have a good one and it's properly configured, a joystick gives some big advantages over mouse/keyboard. Analog turning is huge in a brawl, for example.

I suspect that an ideal setup would be joystick + mouse. Joystick for turning/throttle, mouse for torso/aiming.

Will this game support analog turning? I'm going to go get a joystick again for Elite, so I might as well do double duty if I can.

[DivineEvil]

Adjusting the heat management system for lower Capacity rates is the only thing that will ever be needed to fix that. Lasers are good as burst-damage weapons, but only average if used in chain-fire. Heat Capacity is needlessly overbuffed, and that allows for laser-vomit abuse.

[Void Angel]

But yes, I will never forgo my mouse in favor of a joystick.

[Void Angel]

Zoid, on 02 February 2016 - 03:05 PM, said:

Not at all true, lasers just have a very high skill floor. Meaning that if you're bad with lasers you're still going to do some damage, whereas if you're bad with pretty much anything else, you're not going to do very much at all.

Conversely, the skill ceiling for lasers is actually pretty high. Keeping an ERLL focused on one spot on a moving target is not a simple task. IS pulse lasers don't take a lot of skill to aim because of the extremely short duration, but they are pretty short-range so getting in a good position is hard.

I think you meant, "low skill floor" for lasers?

In any case, if you're obsessed with hypercompetitivity, sure, you have to take the best guns. But I've gotte a ton of fun and success out of mixed weapon systems, such as my Shadowhawk 2H, both of my MPL + Ballistic/SRM Ebon Jaguars, etc, etc. And really, if you want to be that serious, you should focus on just putting in the play time and making any weapon work. Positioning is often a big part of what separates the best players from the merely good anyway - and any of the top-tier players I know can make a go of it with any build imaginable.

[Wintersdark]

Roadkill, on 02 February 2016 - 04:56 PM, said:

Don't knock a joystick. If you have a good one and it's properly configured, a joystick gives some big advantages over mouse/keyboard. Analog turning is huge in a brawl, for example.

I suspect that an ideal setup would be joystick + mouse. Joystick for turning/throttle, mouse for torso/aiming.

Wait, I missed that. Analog turning? That works now? Seriously?

[xXBagheeraXx]

If ppcs wherent so finiky and actually put some worthwhile damage out for the insane amount of heat....

I'm personally running IS ballistic boats now and doing OK tho...and ofc my trusty old Dual gauss assaults.

[Wolfways]

Lightfoot, on 02 February 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

I go into Mechlab and build interesting mechs, but there is really no point in using anything but a laser-boat in MWO. The rest of the weapons are just fluff to support massed lasers. MWO long range is dominated by ER large lasers.

I think you mean Gauss rifles. Or do you mean there are more ERLL's being used which makes sense as mechs generally have more energy hardpoints than other types,

Quote

Short range is dominated by medium lasers.

Medium lasers are medium range weapons...hence the name. For short range AC's (by far), SL's, SPL's, SRM's, and maybe SSRM's are better.

Quote

Previous MechWarrior games had the whole arsenal competitive and dangerous. Not having that in MWO is a great loss of game depth. The other weapons need greater tactical strength so they beat lasers if used at the right range or right terrain. I think if the other weapons lack those qualities lasers will just be the best weapon for any circumstance and we will lose all that MechWarrior gameplay depth that Mechlab can bring. That's all.

AC's are better for brawling, LRM's are absolutely better for indirect-fire
I feel that lasers are the middle ground. Jack of all trades which can be used at any range but are outclassed by the specialists.

[S13gtastic]

Pepperidge Farm remembers when only dual AC20 Jaegers and Dakka-boats roamed the quick-play and poptarts brought death from the sky.

Seriously though we've just had some pretty awesome laser-boats show up. Throw in some nerf/un-nerfs and something else will be all the rage.

[FupDup]

S13gtastic, on 02 February 2016 - 07:09 PM, said:

Pepperidge Farm remembers when only dual AC20 Jaegers and Dakka-boats roamed the quick-play and poptarts brought death from the sky.

Seriously though we've just had some pretty awesome laser-boats show up. Throw in some nerf/un-nerfs and something else will be all the rage.

I wouldn't say that they "just" showed up, it's been started since June 2014 (Clan invasion patch) and fully solidified since August 2014 (PPC velocity nerf).

[Vickinator]

S13gtastic, on 02 February 2016 - 07:09 PM, said:

Pepperidge Farm remembers when only dual AC20 Jaegers and Dakka-boats roamed the quick-play and poptarts brought death from the sky.

Seriously though we've just had some pretty awesome laser-boats show up. Throw in some nerf/un-nerfs and something else will be all the rage.

Ironic how thats when lasers buffs started, they were so horrible for what they did compared to the poptart meta that they buffed all lasers massively and then progressively nerfed poptarting until it was useless and laser vomit became meta

[Trauglodyte]

PPCs are finicky but they need to be so that the actual PPC carriers are good with them and we don't go back to PPFLDfest. Unfortunately, we're in a "I have little to no skill so I take" Laserfest. The game rewards people for using them because bads can luck into kills which gives them more XP and Cbills so that they can buy new mechs, load them up with lasers, rinse and repeat. Between the awful PSR, indirect fire LRMs, and the ease of use with Lasers, there isn't much room for skill in this game.

[Wintersdark]

Vickinator, on 02 February 2016 - 07:16 PM, said:

Ironic how thats when lasers buffs started, they were so horrible for what they did compared to the poptart meta that they buffed all lasers massively and then progressively nerfed poptarting until it was useless and laser vomit became meta

Funny thing.

Despite how things are portrayed, for basically as long as I've been playing (since the very start of open beta) the humble Large Laser was viewed as the ideal "balance point" weapon that others should be balanced around.

It was never (until more recent days) overpowered, but at the same time it was also totally usable. Even during the poptart meta, it was viewed as "where other weapons ought to be".

[Trauglodyte]

And the Lrg Laser, for all intents and purposes, is balanced. The ER isn't by any means.

[Moldur]

Meta is something you worry about in CW.

"Meta" in solo is a joke. Half the people are running dog **** builds in every tier anyway. Any remotely decent build will perform O.K.

[Lightfoot]

The joystick I use is the Thrustmaster T16000-M. Very good once you zip tie 2 coils of the return spring together. Tracks better than the Sidewinder 2 once you lower the return spring tension.

And lasers beat everything at every range if you mix them right. You just have a mix of large, medium, and small and you get one shot kills on most un-quirked mediums, certainly on the second shot to the CT. And I am okay with that if that's what PGI wants as an average short range TTK, however there need to be weapons that counter that, like PPCs that have a 1600 mps travel time that are not bugged. MWO just seems to love lasers and anything else is unholy or some kind of cheat.

Edited by Lightfoot, 02 February 2016 - 08:55 PM.

[Merky Merc]

I don't understand the cries for nerfing of lasers, considering given their weight they're the most viable weapons for a majority of the mechs in the game. So many energy only chassis would be screwed, anything below like, 60 tons would be in a sore spot.

I'd like to see some better ballistic options but I suspect that would require either tossing lore properties like weight and ammo per ton out, or adding in some lacs and racs. Or do both and add in light fusion engines so boating smaller ballistics isn't so terrible.