16 replies to this topic

[crashlogic]

I hate conquest. I hate it with a burning passion. But I think about ways I might like it, and here I offer my studied opinion on why its a fail as a game mode and how I would make it better.

Basically in a conquest game one of three things happens. One team scatters, the other stays together and the team that scatters gets stomped. Both teams scatter and the one the comes together first wins, usually by a stomp. Both teams stay together and ignore capping, in which case how is it not skirmish? In fact, judging by every game I have played (and being tier three it means I have played against everyone) the accepted wisdom is that you should kill first and cap second. In which case how is this not skirmish?

So conquest is lskirmish with this massive misdirection play that leads players into thinking they should cap. Now I know lower tier players tend to scatter a whole lot anyway, but capping is like entrapment - you induce scattering with the concept of the game. In know I know, you will howl to the moon that skirmish has no tactics involved, and that conquest is tactical. I can only respond with if the tactics are kill first then cap, the tactics are the same as skirmish.

So How would I fix cap. I think the came would be much better if capping was the only way to win. On time out, or on the death of the other team, the game stops and the side with the most resources wins. This would make gaining and denying capture points essential, and force real allocation of resourced decisions on teams, because staying together would pretty much ensure a loss unless you could sort out how to get ahead in points before you killed the other team off. Its always a trade off.
In any case, this is how I would structure the gamemode. But I am not MS, so PGI won't simply do what ever I ask of them.

[Darwins Dog]

crashlogic, on 05 February 2016 - 09:39 PM, said:

So How would I fix cap. I think the came would be much better if capping was the only way to win. On time out, or on the death of the other team, the game stops and the side with the most resources wins. This would make gaining and denying capture points essential, and force real allocation of resourced decisions on teams, because staying together would pretty much ensure a loss unless you could sort out how to get ahead in points before you killed the other team off. Its always a trade off.
In any case, this is how I would structure the gamemode. But I am not MS, so PGI won't simply do what ever I ask of them.

This is pretty close to what Russ said was coming in the last town hall. The only way to win will be through points, killing the enemy won't matter. Of course, there wasn't much in the way of specifics, but it might be just what you want.

[crashlogic]

Oh the would be shiny. What next? Maybe they will put the turrets back in Assault and make that mode fun again.

[Davegt27]

I actually warmed up to conquest a little since I so often have it forced on me

I just cut my play time in half and it not so bad

[Thorqemada]

Assaults with Turrets was the most boring WWI Edition of a gamemode MWO ever offered - i hope it never comes back!

[Kaeb Odellas]

Conquest, as implemented, is completely nonsensical. Picture a cap win where you're the last mech standing against an entire intact company. You've got one leg and no weapons. It's only a matter of time before the enemy finds and kills you. Somehow you're the winner because you collected 750 of these resources first, even though 5 minutes after the round ends the "losing" would have collected twice as much of this magical resource as you did after taking all of the extractors and finishing you off.

And how are these resources even transferred to the each side when they're captured, anyway? I don't see any trucks or dropships hauling them out during the battle. How would the "winning" side collect these resources when there's no one around to collect them and there's an entire company of enemy mechs in the area.

[Accused]

Thorqemada, on 05 February 2016 - 10:40 PM, said:

Assaults with Turrets was the most boring WWI Edition of a gamemode MWO ever offered - i hope it never comes back!

You did read the part about Russ adding actual bases to Assault mode right?

[Thorqemada]

Time will tell how it works out - maybe they have a better implementation this time...

[adamts01]

The only thing I like about conquest is that it keeps both sides from taking a power position and camping. I do like your idea, it would be better than what we have now, but I still have standing in squares, I want to fight.

[SkaerKrow]

I would personally like to see Conquest not even start until players get to Tier IV, though from the sounds of it, players don't grasp it in the later tiers either (while I may not have great strategies for it, I am consistently aware that there are capture points and we should care about them). That said, a kill "victory" basically scoring the game right there has potential. Anything is better than what we have now.

[MauttyKoray]

https://www.reddit.c..._summary_recap/

Quote

• For March, Russ would like to have a change to Conquest game mode. Admits current ones are all just different spins on Skirmish. New/different win conditions. Conquest in test to become more about hitting the cap points not killing enemies (this needs respawn mechanics to really work, Russ)
  
• In March, 4th brand new game mode. Domination/King of the Hill type of game mode. 800m-1000m portion of map in middle with "object of importance". Players inside this region are working toward something (countdown clock invoked, etc) and secondary objectives per team elsewhere on the map that helps accomplishing primary objective. Entering test in next few days.
  
• Assault will also be tweaked in March, where getting shot will stop the capturing effect temporarily
  
• By April, complete revamp of Assault game mode. A base per side but a legit base. May utilize CW objects to destroy, etc. Maybe UAV-like tower, ECM bubble, capzone inside, new art assets, turrets, o-gen type events outside the base for defenders to protect that could disable some of the base powerups, etc. Wants to see this become the defacto game-mode for QuickPlay with the other modes becoming lesser-used alternates to this. April at the earliest, possibly May.

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SkaerKrow, on 06 February 2016 - 01:07 AM, said:

I would personally like to see Conquest not even start until players get to Tier IV, though from the sounds of it, players don't grasp it in the later tiers either (while I may not have great strategies for it, I am consistently aware that there are capture points and we should care about them). That said, a kill "victory" basically scoring the game right there has potential. Anything is better than what we have now.

Its the fact that killing opponents ends up rewarding the players better than the cap point win.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 06 February 2016 - 02:53 AM.

[adamts01]

MauttyKoray, on 06 February 2016 - 02:49 AM, said:

Its the fact that killing opponents ends up rewarding the players better than the cap point win.

I agree that completing the objective should be rewarded. But no one likes completing the objective because standing in squares sucks. I don't care how much it pays, I refuse to run around standing in squares all match in my Locust.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Conquest is like a game of Rock Paper Scissors where ROCK always wins. Whoever figures out you can just death ball the enemy to death will win.

[zagibu]

I think they got the right idea, but they should also make capping a bit faster in order to reward spreading out more.

[MaximusPayne]

I don't mind conquest so much anymore. At least there is actual combat. Everyone needs to understand you kill first, cap second. Splitting the team up to get an early points lead will only ensure a defeat. I think if a player was able to bring 4 mechs (like in CW) and make the only objective to win by points would make this mode alot more popular.

Assault, on the other hand, makes me dry heave whenever it gets chosen by majority vote. I've had more than a few matches won and lost without firing a single shot. I reach for the exit button every time.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Conquest could be the only game mode with CW like respawning.

[AssaultPig]

conquest is the best game mode because it's the only one with incentives that prevent camping

the way to play conq successfully/well is to take three points by being aggressive early, then force the other team to push in a predictable way. Deathball is still the best way to do this, but people hate that they can't just hillhump all game I guess.

I would prefer the current conquest mode get left as-is and assault get revamped into something properly objective oriented, if we're revamping game modes.

also yeah, until they implement some kind of respawn or drop deck mechanic in the pub queue, killing mechs will almost always be the best way to win games.