34 replies to this topic

[Jaqir]

Mneh. AMS means I'm keeping myself and/or nearby team mates alive for a bit longer. For the tonnage and slots required to have that additional advantage in battle, I really don't think it needs more rewards in addition to the increased chance of winning.

Not that I'd mind. Already taking AMS with me where ever I go.

[Wolfways]

Chrome Magnus, on 02 February 2016 - 11:30 PM, said:

Well for starters I've yet to run into anyone who makes claims that they are immune to LRMs actually stay in areas where they are safe unless they're someone who lets others (consistently letting others push/draw fire) advance the round. More than that AMS can go a long way towards saving team mates/keeping them armored.

Of course in general LRMs are very spotty (at least in high tiers) and most rounds there just aren't many LRM's so it's easy, even if not entirely true, to claim one never takes much LRM dmg. I mean maybe one out of 10 matches is LRM heavy. Heck, a lot of the time a half ton of AMS gets me and mine through a match. Although with PH I've gone through 6k rounds...

I'm not immune to LRM's, but I rarely take enough damage to be bothered by them. I take a lot of LRM damage maybe 1 match in 50 at most.
I don't sit around letting others advance alone either. I'm usually supporting just behind the main line with PPC's, AC's, or occasionally with LRM's.

[Windschreiter]

Not sure about giving rewards for AMS use - it kinda feels like paying for each damage your armor got.
AMS is a defensive measure to enhance survivabilty just like Armor does.

Equipping your Mech shouldn't be based on potential payout but on your playstyle/role.

E.G. As a dedicated backstabber I removed the AMS from my Jenner - nothing worse than sneaking up on a LRM Boat, aligning your shots just to have your position given away by AMS shooting down LRMs shot away from you...

[Steinar Bergstol]

I read the title as "Let's fix aRms". I was hoping for suggestions to allow us to raise our arms by actually making use of that shoulder joint our mechs are equipped with so that we wouldn't run around as if Our upper arms were glued to the side of our torsos.

[Glaucon]

Can I get money for my ECM as well?

[jss78]

I'm not so sure about this. A reward for shot down missiles would essentially mean a c-bill reward for standing around, and I instinctively dislike that mechanic.

The best way to encourage AMS use is to make LRM's dangerous. At least in high-tier Pug games they are not dangerous. Make LRM's a threat and AMS use will follow.

One issue is that Radar Derp is arguably OP. It's considered mandatory equipment, and if one module us considered mandatory over dozens of other alternatives, there's a clear balance issue. Nerf/remove Radar Derp and add a few more maps like Polar, maybe that'd do it. Or alternatively work on the LRM mechanics themselves to make them more difficult to evade.

Edited by jss78, 03 February 2016 - 04:52 AM.

[Jaqir]

Now, if you got a little something for manually shooting down incoming missiles... Combine with missile velocity increase across the board and you've a fun minigame for all.

[Bud Crue]

I think since Hoth came out, it is LRM-ageddon all over again. I have redone many of my builds to incorporate AMS (or dual AMS where possible)..at least on those mechs I am still leveling or just like playing in public matches.

I rarely run AMS in CW, except on my Boreal and Sulfurous attack decks.

I certainly don't see a need to reward us for running AMS any more that we should get a reward for having armor.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

AHEM...

Quote

Protected Light:

Be in a light 'Mech.
Stay close to a 'Mech that is at least 2 weight classes higher.
Both are engaged.
Reward occurs every 8 seconds.

Protected Medium:

Be in a medium 'Mech.
Stay close to a 'Mech that is at least 2 weight classes higher.
Both are engaged.
Reward occurs every 8 seconds.

+ there are rewards for BAP and ECM (for disrupting other ecms)

+ rewards for the enemy running away from you (hit and run doens't check who runs)

so yeah, apart from a fix to that environment-piercing rounds, a little reward for ams-ing would be ok I think. A 3xams kitfox doesn't use those ams-es to protect itself, but to protect the team. He could ditch them and equip more weapons, but he didn't. Role warfare, anyone?

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 03 February 2016 - 05:18 AM.

[TercieI]

jaxjace, on 03 February 2016 - 01:28 AM, said:

Or we could make it so you know, it actually stopped at least more missiles.

Yeah, I was hoping this was a thread about making it worth its tonnage, not taking it when it's not and getting paid.

Edited by TercieI, 03 February 2016 - 05:46 AM.

[Atreus Ofiach]

The game gives rewards for literally everything else. Spot a mech and it gets Lurmed? very nice bonus. Run around with your ecm? Decent bonus. Stick together with your lance? stupid bonus. Give the average pug player incentive to bring something tactical. This post obviously isn't aimed at decent teams who stack AMS and ECM anyway. This is aimed at bringing AMS into a rewards bracket along with ECM and BAP.

As to the comments about this making people stand around. That's the exact opposite effect IMO. When your assault pushes and starts getting rained on by every lurm boat out there this will incentivize pushing in with him and providing him an umbrella. Forcing the average player to stay close to your most exposed target for free XP will give people more incentive to push en masse. Rather than hiding in the back corner of a map cowering every time an enemy shoots a medium laser at them at 600 meters.

[Clownwarlord]

AMS is a 1.5 ton useless piece of **** for IS not sure but does the clan AMS weigh less? Oh well Clan AMS is also still a piece of **** as well.

Either your entire team needs to take it or there is no point to it.

[Mad Porthos]

clownwarlord, on 03 February 2016 - 07:03 PM, said:

AMS is a 1.5 ton useless piece of **** for IS not sure but does the clan AMS weigh less? Oh well Clan AMS is also still a piece of **** as well.

Either your entire team needs to take it or there is no point to it.

Just a few casual dismissals here. First, it's .5 tons, requiring minimum .5 tons of ammo, so 1 ton. Used on some mechs as a sort of backup, only when you need it and turned off (with the ~ key) it can do it's function of protecting you personally, when you decide you need it to and you remembered to turn it off at beginning of match and pop it on as you become aware someone is going to try to LRM, NARC or Streak you.

1.5 tons is minimum I'd consider in a fast paced game when you want to support the team and want to contribute to the AMS umbrella for a more significant time without actually actively managing the system. It's the brain dead setting, but because of that no one seems to think it does anything, it's just an annoying ratcheting sound to them, until the ammo countdown hits zero and they start dying to incoming missile fire. Anytime they die before that number hits zero, then dammit it didn't do it's damn job!

The thing is though, AMS cannot be about a personal shield. That's where it really fails. It works in a radius around you, a sort of half globe or perhaps even a cylinder - I am not completely certain of the geometric area of effect, but a dome would make sense based on range. If you are the actual target of the missiles, the system automatically loses half it's effectiveness because the volley fired AT YOU, only has to move from the edge of your AMS range to the center of that area - your mech. It can't destroy as many missiles as it normally could because normally it would be able to fire at those missiles as they entered your AMS range, arced over you and continued towards their target and left your range. Then that target's own AMS would be more able to further impact the remaining volley or finish the job even. Especially if several teamates had AMS, even a large volley could significantly be whittled down to size.

Now some mechs are able to mount 2 AMS or even 3 AMS. It goes without saying that ammo must be increased. If you are dedicating to AMS in this way, you are probably not running it just to be your own selfish screen - as much as you might be annoyed dying to LRMS/NARC/Streaks, I think if you're the type who is completely dismissing AMS, you're not going to "waste" 1.5 tons on 3 AMS, then another 1.5 on having .5ton ammo for each an turning it on/micro-managing your ammo supply. You'd want all that as extra guns and heat sinks which is the whole reason such a person dismissed the AMS in the first place. So really, when running 3 AMS, I'd say run at LEAST 3 tons of AMS ammo - and leave it running most all the time that you can. Don't waste ammo when you know all are safe underground in HPG or behind the mountain in Forest Colony, but most other times, if your AMS is yammering, it's a good thing taking out LRMS arcing overhead to do no good to some ally of yours. Be part of the solution and confound that LRM boat.

The dedicated 3 AMS mech or even a 2 AMS mech, running range and overload modules, needs a lot of ammo but is the closest thing to a real screen or force field in this regards. It is not thoughtless play because you always want to array yourself out of direct site, between enemy forces and your team. Rather than peeking and poking, you may be best finding an alcove with your back pressed up against the ridge that your enemy are using as their cover, and that your own team is trying to corner on and peek and poke across. No one can get a direct lock or angle on you this way, but the enemy missile boats will be dumping their loads into the zone where your own AMS fire can catch the missiles coming to you and then continuing to go overhead until out of your own range, doubling the already greater effectiveness of your multi-AMS and module buffs. Two or three mechs doing this have been able to stare at NARCers and Streakboats, vaporizing whole salvos because even 36 streaks at once are being chewed on by 5-7 AMS units for their entire path of travel. Dumping such into their midst when there are also a few smart singular AMS users around can even keep an ECMed murderball from losing ECM due to a NARC Raven getting a beacon on the ECM carrier. The beacon just doesn't have the durability to get to target with the overlap, being shot down almost as soon as it leaves launcher or comes in range. It can even make a suicide bird, like a NARC Raven who runs up point blank... IN FRUSTRATION, still fail and rail on in the forums about how bad NARC is, cause it doesn't work or has bad hit reg...when in truth, it just never even had a chance.

[Ratpoison]

Mad Porthos, on 05 February 2016 - 01:33 AM, said:

The dedicated 3 AMS mech or even a 2 AMS mech, running range and overload modules, needs a lot of ammo but is the closest thing to a real screen or force field in this regards.

9000 rounds and I STILL have to be careful about running out.

[Alistair Winter]

jaxjace, on 03 February 2016 - 01:28 AM, said:

Or we could make it so you know, it actually stopped at least more missiles.

This is it. It's not just about the rewards. Most people aren't gonna run sub-part equipment for extra rewards. Players want to win matches and get kills. Most players prefer to be the DPS dealers, not the helpful Mech-Paladin covering the Mech-Warriors with his Holy AMS aura of Blessed Overload.

When equipping AMS significantly increases your chance of winning a match and getting more kills, more people will equip it.