227 replies to this topic

[Xenon Codex]

Look, $20 for three Assault mechs with Endo, DHS, Std armor, and XL400 engines!!! Are you mad? This is a steal compared to previous PGI pricing. I paid that much for three 75 ton Marauders with STD engines for which I had to pay a nice C-bill tax to upgrade them all. And this isn't an Omnimech so you can use those XL400 elsewhere or sell a couple and bank a pile of C-bills!!!

This Kodiak deal is a unreal. If I was a Clanner I'd jump on it. I'm almost tempted to start an alt-Clan account and buy these.

PS: I'm still very happy with my Marauder purchase...well worth the $20 + $15 for the Hero mech. One of the few Hero mechs I play regularly and do well in (other being Blackjack Arrow).

[STEF_]

Tarogato, on 03 February 2016 - 07:16 PM, said:

Origins (full pack) 80$ ---- 12.5 tons per dollar
Origins (HGN a la carte) 35$ ---- 10.3 tons per dollar
Origins (basic) 20$ ---- 7.0 tons per dollar

Kodiak (basic) 20$ ---- 15.0 tons per dollar
Kodiak (basic + reinforcement) 35$ ---- 14.3 tons per dollar
Kodiak (full without pointless collector skin) 50$ ---- 12.0 tons per dollar
Kodiak (basic + hero) 35$ ---- 11.4 tons per dollar
Kodiak (full pack) 70$ ---- 10.0 tons per dollar



The more you spend, the less value you get. But if you don't bother splurging for the special skins, it's a better value than anything Origins had to offer.

I don't know why you calculate tons per dollar?


I like to point out:
chassis number (4)
mech number (16)
C-bill variant n° (4)
...and five dollars per mech.
All this for 80 bucks!

Kodiak pack: only one chassis.
only 2 c-bill variant
only 7 mechs. BUT 70 dollars.

I mean: much much better origin offer, because I play with mechs, not "with tonnage"
And 5 bucks per mech is very very better than 10 bucks per mech.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 03 February 2016 - 07:31 PM.

[Navid A1]

Stefka Kerensky, on 03 February 2016 - 07:29 PM, said:

I don't know why you calculate tons per dollar?


I like to point out:
chassis number (4)
mech number (16)
C-bill variant n° (4)
...and five dollars per mech.
All this for 80 bucks!

Kodiak pack: only one chassis.
only 2 c-bill variant
only 7 mechs. BUT 70 dollars.

I mean: much much better origin offer, because I play with mechs.
And 5 bucks per mech is very very better than 10 bucks per mech.

and also included in the origins pack:
24 colors + 4 faction patterns(1500 each) and 12 mechbays

even the single skin in the Kodiak pack is not offered after Feb 29th

[Rhavin]

Think 70 is a bit much? I told my wife that the next time I preordered a mech pack she could get that designer purse she wants!!

So it looks like I am getting 7 Kodiak for 700 dollars !!!

It's really a great deal, 700 tons of gnarly bestial wrath. Plus mechbays, and a 6 million cbill radar Derp mod if you pre order! Fastest assault the clan can field. If the arms stay at that height it will poke , or brawl as you desire if the hit boxes aren't too wonky.

Take my money, I can't wait to start dieing in this thing!

[Tarogato]

Stefka Kerensky, on 03 February 2016 - 07:29 PM, said:

I don't know why you calculate tons per dollar?

Why do you calculate dollars per mech? Because it's not fair to compare a 20$ Origins package with a 20$ Kodiak package. Sure they both net you four mechs, but they net you very different values at the same price.

[Khobai]

Quote

$8.33 for a mech in a game with around 300 doesn't sound that reasonable......hell the old Mechpak expansions for MW4 that everyone thought were too much sound really nice at this point, which was around $14 for 4 mechs.

but its not just the mechs, youre also getting a month of premium time which is worth $10 if you had to buy it seperately. plus 3 mech bays. And youre getting to use them months before everyone else who didnt buy the pack

so yeah $20 for three 100-ton assault mechs that would probably cost like 17 million cbills each to buy, early access, a month of premium, 3 mech bays, plus the early adopter rewards is pretty reasonable.


Also you totally forgot to account for inflation. $15 in 2000 is like $25 in 2016. Thats way more expensive than what mechs cost in MWO if you subtract out the value of the month of premium time, the mech bays, and whatever early access is worth.

Edited by Khobai, 03 February 2016 - 07:50 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Navid A1, on 03 February 2016 - 06:51 PM, said:

for example, reducing the collector's pack to 10$ extra ( or even 15$ ) may cost them 10-5$ loss per pack. But they will get 2-3 more collector's sale for each 10-5$ they miss... meaning more income overall.

Even adding incentives, like reduced hero price in case you have collector's would greatly help pushing for the collectors'

Well, see, you don't know that with the numbers. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. It's not all cut and dried.

Also, there's real value (as much as people don't like to admit it) in having something like that expensive. It adds a "premium" feel for those who purchase it, a "mini-gold skin" sort of thing when using that Collectors Edition skin.

Now, that doesn't do anything for me personally, and I *DO* wish the collectors addon had a bit more value (be a different variant rather than a second "primary" variant) but them's the breaks.

The long and short of it is, it's not entirely clear if you'd sell enough more. And the depreciation in perceived worth is real, whether you wish to believe it or not. That perceived worth is important for more than the given collectors pack; it impacts how customers view value throughout all the offerings.

Anyways, while I wish they'd do what you suggest there (as normally I'd never consider the collectors pack), you need to understand that pricing is way, way more complicated than just "Make $X by selling Y units at $Z; solve for maximum X"

[Chuck Jager]

Dingo Red, on 03 February 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

Isn't it $70 for seven 'mech chassis? And only $20 for three? Plus premium time and whatever other goodies?

Outrage I say!

OMG somebody can read, thank the lord.

I like the individual packs because you get to see what is good before you buy. Do not forget to subtract the cost of premium time, because for me it is worth the money.

Most decent gym/health spa are over $20 a month. A mid range bike tire at walmart can be close to $20 and that is not quality.

For $40 bucks that is an extra mech (30%cbill), extra cockpit stuff and an extra month of premium time for another $20 when the premium time cost about$12, so really another $8. We can add the other stuff on after we see if they are good, so if you want early adopter you do not have to buy whole kit.

If this is too expensive, maybe somebody needs to focus on other priorities and not play the game as much.

[Wintersdark]

Tarogato, on 03 February 2016 - 07:33 PM, said:

Why do you calculate dollars per mech? Because it's not fair to compare a 20$ Origins package with a 20$ Kodiak package. Sure they both net you four mechs, but they net you very different values at the same price.

For me, I had to basically throw away $20 in my Origin pack because I detest playing lights. Absolutely zero interest in the Jenners. Largely "Meh" towards the Highlanders, but to buy 2 chassis via A'La Carte would have cost me $70, and the whole pack was 80 - with 2 months premium time. I basically got the Highlanders to push my premium time up a month, and give me options in case they ever get buffed/JJ's get fixed, as I *love* Highlanders otherwise.

So, while I did get 12 mechs, I only wanted 9 of them, for $80.

This is the tradeoff with that style of mech pack. If you actually want all those mechs, it's awesome. But if you're after the Heavies, or the Assaults? it's a terrible deal.

[InspectorG]

Navid A1, on 03 February 2016 - 06:51 PM, said:

I believe sales are more than just if you like it you buy it, if not, don't buy it.

for example, reducing the collector's pack to 10$ extra ( or even 15$ ) may cost them 10-5$ loss per pack. But they will get 2-3 more collector's sale for each 10-5$ they miss... meaning more income overall.

Even adding incentives, like reduced hero price in case you have collector's would greatly help pushing for the collectors'

Not really, sales is simple.

If product value =/> price then a sale is made. Would you buy a gold ingot for $5 knowing you could transport/store it?

If product value is < price then sale is not made. Would you buy my used underwear for $100? ill throw in a new pair for $10?

If PGI thinks their product that the player base has voiced interest in over a year has enough value in itself then adding incentive is redundant and likely would diminish the value of the base product thus effecting profits and future expectations

In a niche product like MWO, the incentive to 'buy now' is likely a mix of perceived or actual 'P2W' and Early Access(exclusivity). Rational people know all but the hero will be available for Cbills in 3-4 months.

And if the # of Pure Collectors doesnt drive profits but you know they will buy anyway then why offer an incentive add-on to a new pack when you could surprise them later with a loyalty reward?

Loyalty reward incentivizes non collectors to become collectors, collectors to keep being collectors, and wont diminish profits in new packs because the overhead of the reward was exchanged for appreciation, not to incentivize a product that likely would stand on its own.

PGI likely thinks Vets who said they want Kodiak and new Steamers will drive sales. Mechpack formula of best value at $20 and less at $70 is likely the best way to go.

Us salty vets know the history but we dont have their sales numbers or strategy to look at. Steam is new. PGI should likely capitalize on it the way they think is best.

TL;DR

You assume cheap = more sales.

Not always the case. Sometimes, specially in niche products, an inflated price can increase sales.

Its all about generating value and getting that value = or > the price for the biggest segment of the player base in relation to overhead and profit expectations.

Keep giving free and discounts with everything and you are telling people you dont think your product is worth the price.

[Ovion]

Tarogato, on 03 February 2016 - 07:16 PM, said:

Origins (full pack) 80$ ---- 12.5 tons per dollar
Origins (HGN a la carte) 35$ ---- 10.3 tons per dollar
Origins (basic) 20$ ---- 7.0 tons per dollar

Kodiak (basic) 20$ ---- 15.0 tons per dollar
Kodiak (basic + reinforcement) 35$ ---- 14.3 tons per dollar
Kodiak (full without pointless collector skin) 50$ ---- 12.0 tons per dollar
Kodiak (basic + hero) 35$ ---- 11.4 tons per dollar
Kodiak (full pack) 70$ ---- 10.0 tons per dollar



The more you spend, the less value you get. But if you don't bother splurging for the special skins, it's a better value than anything Origins had to offer.

This doesn't take into anything else.

It's 4am, but tomorrow I'll bother doing a breakdown.

[MauttyKoray]

VirtualRiot, on 03 February 2016 - 01:56 PM, said:

Milk me bby.

Uh, no...Its $20 for 3 variants of 1 chassis and bonuses.

If you want to spend more than that its up to you, $40 for a special of one of the three variants (total 4 mechs) and more bonuses (worst value imo, 1 chassis, and nowhere near enough bonuses for another $20). Hero add-on for $15 (pretty normal...) and then the reinforcement pack for another $15 is actually a little lacking too.

At the very least it should have included another 2 sets of the items for the 2 extra variants if not another 15 days of premium time. (or maybe an extra camo pattern unlock for the mech?)

[Navid A1]

InspectorG, on 03 February 2016 - 07:59 PM, said:

TL;DR

You assume cheap = more sales.

Not always the case. Sometimes, specially in niche products, an inflated price can increase sales.

Its all about generating value and getting that value = or > the price for the biggest segment of the player base in relation to overhead and profit expectations.

Keep giving free and discounts with everything and you are telling people you dont think your product is worth the price.

No... cheap does not mean more sales automatically. PGI have been setting the standard with Clans waves , resistance packs , phoenix pack , Origins. Those packs were content rich (according to PGI standards though)

The new single pack mechs with bare minimum content just shows how well those previous packs were selling.
Think about it. They were giving away loads of colors and premium faction patterns as an all time extra on top of your purchase with cbill bonus variants. And according to Russ, they were selling like hot cakes.

They tried the single pack with the marauder as one of the most wanted mechs out there. The marauder itself was a guaranteed sale all on itself. They took the safest risk.

Same happened with clan wave 2 and 1 special prize: MDD-PRIME(I). They knew clan wave 2 was Sh*t... so they added the maddog prize to compensate. they know the value of their own packs. maddog was a most wanted chassis and it could single-handedly drive sales for clan wave 2. Why there was no special prize for clan wave 3?... because they knew the value of the arctic cheetah and ebon jag. They exactly know what they are selling to you.

They are still riding the marauder hype.
Even the single skin unlock is not included after feb 29th meaning even less content.

seems like they are actively trying to find that critical point in the community... to offer the least possible content for the most possible price. That is what a salesman should do actually... but there is a limit to how far you can push.

Edited by Navid A1, 03 February 2016 - 08:41 PM.

[STEF_]

Tarogato, on 03 February 2016 - 07:33 PM, said:

Why do you calculate dollars per mech? Because it's not fair to compare a 20$ Origins package with a 20$ Kodiak package. Sure they both net you four mechs, but they net you very different values at the same price.

because when I play, I Drop with a mech and I can have the esact same fun when dropping with a light and with an assault.
Moreover I have fun with diversity, so I can enjoy 4 chassis much more than only one

[Ovion]

So, contents of the $70 pack:

Spoiler

8 100T Clan Battlemechs (Including 2 Hero mechs)
8 Mech Bays

90 days premium time
3 Warhorn
3 Standing Item
6 Hanging Item
Premium Camo Unlock

2 Weapon Modules
2 Mech Modules
6,500,000 C-Bills

8 CXL400 Engines
35 CERML
8 CERLL
1 CUAC10
3 CUAC20
3 CLBX20
1 CGauss Rifle
9 CSSRM6
2 CALRM20
4 Class 1 JJ
1 TCMkVI
1 MASC MkIV

2 Titles
2 Badges

MC Value: 113,150
Estimated MC Value of mechs: 72,000

Total value based on MC (25,00MC packages): US$452 (Of which is mechs: US$287)
Relative value of mechs (price of package) US$44.50
Price per mech US$5.50
Relative price of other stuff US$25.50

Edited by Ovion, 03 February 2016 - 09:48 PM.

[Navid A1]

Ovion, on 03 February 2016 - 09:02 PM, said:

So, contents of the $70 pack:

Spoiler

8 100T Clan Battlemechs (Including 2 Hero mechs)
8 Mech Bays

90 days premium time
3 Warhorn
3 Standing Item
6 Hanging Item
Premium Camo Unlock

2 Weapon Modules
2 Mech Modules
6,500,000 C-Bills

8 CXL400 Engines
35 CERML
8 CERLL
1 CUAC10
3 CUAC20
3 CLBX20
1 CGauss Rifle
9 CSSRM6
2 CALRM20
4 Class 1 JJ
1 TCMkVI
1 MASC MkIV

2 Titles
2 Badges

MC Value: 113,150
Estimated MC Value of mechs: 72,000

Total value based on MC (25,00MC packages): US$452 (Of which is mechs: US$287)
Relative value of mechs (price of package) US$44.50
Price per mech US$5.50
Relative price of other stuff US$25.50

• First... It is 7 mechs.
  
• Second, even with your assumption (8 mechs), you say that each mech costs 9000 MC?
  
• Third... you calculated the prices for the installed equipment separately? while they are already included on the mech? lol. (are you a secret PGI agent?)
  
• Forth, prem time is 60 days.
  
• Fifth, Some of those content are not included after 29th feb.

now try doing the same thing with your over the top assumptions with... like... origins pack. Make sure you include those all time 24 colors (1000 MC each) and 4 premium faction pattern unlock across 4 chassis (16x1500 MC) too.

or maybe don't... i'll save you the trouble... 141,200 MC worth of content in top origins pack.

[Ovion]

Navid A1, on 03 February 2016 - 09:29 PM, said:

First... It is 7 mechs.

• Second, even with your assumption (8 mechs), you say that each mech costs 9000 MC?
  
• Third... you calculated the prices for the installed equipment separately? while they are already included on the mech? lol. (are you a secret PGI agent?)
  
• Forth, prem time is 60 days.
  
• Fifth, Some of those content are not included after 29th feb.

now try doing the same thing with your over the top assumptions with... like... origins pack. Make sure you include those all time 24 colors (1000 MC each) and 4 premium faction pattern unlock across 4 chassis (16x1500 MC) too.




or maybe don't... i'll save you the trouble... 141,200 MC worth of content in top origins pack.

Ok, yes, it's 7.
In my defence it was 5am. I'll go rectify that.

The assumption is 8000MC base per, which is slightly more than the Dire Wolf due to the larger XL400's.
'Hero's' will cost more, I used the assumption of +50% base - being that the 'standard' Hero cost would be less than the usual.

I didn't include the equipment seperately.
I was too lazy to edit my previous list.

Previous things have included both sets of premium, again, I blame 5am.

We're doing price now, not price in a month.
That'll be a different time and kettle of fish.

And I did these workups before - they're on the forum.
Notice I didn't state anything either way, just present infomation (albeit badly, again.. 5am >< ) this wasn't to take a side, or a bias, just making sure things were accounted for.

Fixed numbers:

Spoiler

8 100T Clan Battlemechs (Including 2 Hero mechs)
8 Mech Bays

60 days premium time
3 Warhorn
3 Standing Item
6 Hanging Item
Premium Camo Unlock

2 Weapon Modules
2 Mech Modules
6,500,000 C-Bills

2 Titles
2 Badges

MC Value: 102,950
Estimated MC Value of mechs: 64,000

Total value based on MC (25,00MC packages): US$411.60 (Of which is mechs US$255.90)
Relative value of mechs (price of package) US$43.50
Price per mech US$6.20
Relative price of other stuff US$26.50

For what it's worth, in terms of relative value this package is worse than the previous ones, which averaged roughly 7-8x value, rather than this ones around... 5.88

Additionally, you got shafted if you brought previous packages for Clan Invasion Wave 3 and Origins - getting lots of duplicate colours and such, losing about US$50 of value per pack.

Edited by Ovion, 03 February 2016 - 09:52 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 03 February 2016 - 02:14 PM, said:

Just because it works, doesn't mean it is the most profitable or beneficial in the long term. A lot of practices work technically, but it doesn't mean they are good

The goal should be to maximize not only profits, but volume as well because it generally means you are increasing your loyal user base and increasing the potential for future expenditures by said users. That's one fo the advantages of using micro transactions.

Yea, using this logic, Ponzi schemes and Loan Sharks are just as good as Loyal business' that take care of customers and give back to the community.

And yes, Volume is often just as important as price. IF your only sell two, you better hope they were 10,000 a piece but if you want to sell a lot (and keep you idea of digital demand going, which doesn't really exist because there is no resources involved other then pixels, time and money but i digress) you find the middle road where everyone can afford one and then some people will buy two.


Needless to say MWO is always a bit overpriced, but people dont seem to mind. I on the other hand will gladly get the $20 dollar package but there is about an ice cubes chance in hell id EVER pay $70 dollars for basically ONE CHASSIS.

Edited by Revis Volek, 03 February 2016 - 09:55 PM.

[Navid A1]

Ovion, on 03 February 2016 - 09:43 PM, said:

Ok, yes, it's 7.
In my defence it was 5am. I'll go rectify that.

The assumption is 8000MC base per, which is slightly more than the Dire Wolf due to the larger XL400's.
'Hero's' will cost more, I used the assumption of +50% base - being that the 'standard' Hero cost would be less than the usual.

I didn't include the equipment seperately.
I was too lazy to edit my previous list.

Previous things have included both sets of premium, again, I blame 5am.

We're doing price now, not price in a month.
That'll be a different time and kettle of fish.

And I did these workups before - they're on the forum.
Notice I didn't state anything either way, just present infomation (albeit badly, again.. 5am >< ) this wasn't to take a side, or a bias, just making sure things were accounted for.

Fixed numbers:

Spoiler

8 100T Clan Battlemechs (Including 2 Hero mechs)
8 Mech Bays

60 days premium time
3 Warhorn
3 Standing Item
6 Hanging Item
Premium Camo Unlock

2 Weapon Modules
2 Mech Modules
6,500,000 C-Bills

2 Titles
2 Badges

MC Value: 102,950
Estimated MC Value of mechs: 64,000

Total value based on MC (25,00MC packages): US$411.60 (Of which is mechs US$255.90)
Relative value of mechs (price of package) US$43.50
Price per mech US$6.20
Relative price of other stuff US$26.50

For what it's worth, in terms of relative value this package is worse than the previous ones, which averaged roughly 7-8x value, rather than this ones around... 5.88

Additionally, you got shafted if you brought previous packages for Clan Invasion Wave 3 and Origins - getting lots of duplicate colours and such, losing about US$50 of value per pack.

Even with 8000MC per mech, the total would be around 58000 MC for 7 mechs.
Also those extra cockpit items are all copy-pastes... like three identical items (talk about being cheap).


In any shape or form... the origins pack with about 142,000 MC worth of content is superior.

[JC Daxion]

are people really pushing 8 pages... of bascially the cheapest 3 assaults ever released?????


You people remind me of the Frigging Crusader kinds II players that ***** about portraits, that you can buy 6 months later for less than a buck... My god folks.. if you don't wanna pay.. DONT!!!


THANK YOU TO ALL THAT BUY ON RELEASE!!!!! you keep this game going.. and give all of us a game that works..

thank you again.....