35 replies to this topic

[Omi_]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 07 February 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

I don't think this mech is in any danger of becoming overpowered by giving it another ballistic hardpoint. As it currently is I'd consider it to a relatively unthreatening Assault mech, especially compared to something like its cousin, the Kodiak 3. Does giving it MASC really mean we have to gimp it's weapon choices?

My point is, consumer attraction and game balance are both forms of value, but they are not directly comparable and shouldn't be treated as being the same thing.

Your poll's structure lumps the wishfuls who want the next pre-quirk Timber Wolves in with those who agree that the mech could use an extra hardpoint. You're also implying that the lack of this hardpoint would affect sales. These are gross allegations that have little to do with asking if this idea would be balanced or not.

It's like asking: "Are you lame, or do you like chicken?" This question implies that people who don't like chicken must be lame.

A better poll would be:

Does the Kodiak need an extra ballistic hardpoint to be balanced appropriately?
- Yes
- No

And then ask a separate question: Are you planning on buying the Kodiak?
- Yes either way
- No, but I would with the extra hardpoint
- Yes, but I would not with the extra hardpoint*
- No either way

* It might seem silly to expect people to spend less money for a more powerful mech, but you have to account for all opinions.

Edited by Hornsby, 13 February 2016 - 07:22 PM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Hornsby, on 13 February 2016 - 06:57 PM, said:

My point is, consumer attraction and game balance are both forms of value, but they are not directly comparable and shouldn't be treated as being the same thing.

Your poll's structure lumps the wishfuls who want the next pre-quirk Timber Wolves in with those who agree that the mech could use an extra hardpoint. You're also implying that the lack of this hardpoint would affect sales. These are gross allegations that have little to do with asking if this idea would be balanced or not.

It's like asking: "Are you lame, or do you like chicken?" This question implies that people who don't like chicken must be lame.

A better poll would be:

Does the Kodiak need an extra ballistic hardpoint to be balanced appropriately?
- Yes
- No

And then ask a separate question: Are you planning on buying the Kodiak?
- Yes either way
- No, but I would with the extra hardpoint
- Yes, but I would not with the extra hardpoint*
- No either way

* It might seem silly to expect people to spend less money for a more powerful mech, but you have to account for all opinions.

Just trying to keep it simple. The idea was to present a quick poll to Russ and see if he cared. You're right, poll could have been separated into two questions to allow for more options, but what's done is done. Doesn't seem like a change was considered.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Nightshade24, on 13 February 2016 - 03:37 PM, said:

Not sure about you but overall I would be scared if I run into a kodiak at close range especially the SB. I think a reanactment of the MW2 Ghost bear intro would occur... just replace the JJing for MASC and boom.

I would assess that in terms of close range threat it'd go something like this.

Kodiak SB < Atlas < Kodiak 3

I understand why you'd be scared of any brawler weighing 100 tons being up close to you, but I don't think the SB'd be especially intimidating. A Kodiak 3 ballistic boat'd be another story.

I might splash for a Spirit Bear anyway since it's mobile, and there's a pretty good cool-down sync between UAC/10s and SRM 4s, but even with such a loadout, I'd consider a Kodiak 3 to be large of a threat to rush solo.

[Nightshade24]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 15 February 2016 - 04:13 PM, said:

I would assess that in terms of close range threat it'd go something like this.

Kodiak SB < Atlas < Kodiak 3

I understand why you'd be scared of any brawler weighing 100 tons being up close to you, but I don't think the SB'd be especially intimidating. A Kodiak 3 ballistic boat'd be another story.

I might splash for a Spirit Bear anyway since it's mobile, and there's a pretty good cool-down sync between UAC/10s and SRM 4s, but even with such a loadout, I'd consider a Kodiak 3 to be large of a threat to rush solo.

Any reason the atlas is higher on your list?

the "meta' brawler Atlas is an Atlas S with 4 SRM 6 and an AC 20... the SB while going nearly double the speed of that atlas and rolling armour like a boss can do a UAC 20, 2 ER medium lasers, and 4 SRM 6's ) (a little bit higher damage) or changing the things around to get large pulse lasers or a UAC 20 / Gauss.

Or lower an engine and you could do UAC 20, 4 SRM 6, and 2 large pulse lasers... etc... There is no where on the 'meta' an atlas will do better. Key word meta... in my mind and such I always think practically all mechs are valid besides like a few... but the Kodiak is by far scarier in my eyes to bump into an ally way than an Atlas.
Kodiak 3 to me isn't scarrier, sure it can do duel UAC 20 but after that it can't do to much, or duel UAC 10's and large rlasers or UAC 5's... The clan missiles are very light and do heeps of damage up close, So for 6 tons you get 48 damage (SRM 6 x 4) meanwhile for a UAC 20 you spend 12 damage for 20 + 20 damage with less fire rate and jam

[Luminis]

Nightshade24, on 16 February 2016 - 01:16 AM, said:

There is no where on the 'meta' an atlas will do better.

The Atlas is going to tank more damage before toppling over, so there's that. There's also less damage spreading and probably better heat efficiency. I don't know how that stacks up to the SB's ability to engage a target pretty hard and actually stick to it, thanks to MASC.

As for the KDK-3, currently, I'd definitely feel more scared bumping into that than a KDK-SB, mostly because of two reasons: First, A KDK-3 could very well be a number of different builds, from a ballistic brawler to a long(-ish) range build with dual Gauss. Keeping my distance isn't necessarily going to keep me safe.

Second, heat. Four SRM6 and the UAC20 are going to build a lot of heat on the KDK-SB. Past the initial alpha (or two), the KDK-3's ability to boat ballistics is going to allow to dish out the sort of consistent damage the KDK-SB can't provide.

For the record, I'd probably purchase it if it had an additional B hardpoint, but I'm also of the opinion that it's fine that it doesn't have it. Reason being, I'm quite happy that the hero 'Mechs generally aren't the best variants of a chassis. It's cool that they're different and offer something unique (e. g.: MASC) and get a C-Bill boost. That and the KDK-SB is probably still a perfectly playable 'Mech, if a bit limited in terms of build diversity.

[Shirow]

It's not a omni mech but due to lore it has better tech compared to IS mechs ..

[Nightshade24]

Luminis, on 16 February 2016 - 04:05 AM, said:

The Atlas is going to tank more damage before toppling over, so there's that. There's also less damage spreading and probably better heat efficiency. I don't know how that stacks up to the SB's ability to engage a target pretty hard and actually stick to it, thanks to MASC.

As for the KDK-3, currently, I'd definitely feel more scared bumping into that than a KDK-SB, mostly because of two reasons: First, A KDK-3 could very well be a number of different builds, from a ballistic brawler to a long(-ish) range build with dual Gauss. Keeping my distance isn't necessarily going to keep me safe.

Second, heat. Four SRM6 and the UAC20 are going to build a lot of heat on the KDK-SB. Past the initial alpha (or two), the KDK-3's ability to boat ballistics is going to allow to dish out the sort of consistent damage the KDK-SB can't provide.

For the record, I'd probably purchase it if it had an additional B hardpoint, but I'm also of the opinion that it's fine that it doesn't have it. Reason being, I'm quite happy that the hero 'Mechs generally aren't the best variants of a chassis. It's cool that they're different and offer something unique (e. g.: MASC) and get a C-Bill boost. That and the KDK-SB is probably still a perfectly playable 'Mech, if a bit limited in terms of build diversity.

Well, the MASC and XL 400 does allow the kodiak to role damage much more faster and easily... and 90 kph is enough to circle an atlas and throw his aim off a little bit for his torso weapons. We can't say anything about size/ hitbox yet nor can we say the kodaik is not going to get armour quirks because nearly all 100 tonners have armour quirks and the Kodiak isn't an omnimech or what ever so it's most likely getting an armour quirk on all variants later on.

Heat effeciency is debatable- the atlas will have less heatsinks and the Kodiak will have leg heatsinks (which performs much better where there is water... making it usefull on nearly half+ of the maps and nearly a strict advantage on viridian bog)


The KDK's ballistic power will not give it better heat effeciency but simply having less weapons (less firepower) for better overal heat effeciency, which can easily be countered by removing the lasers of the SB- done, UAC 20 and 4 SRM 6 + Artemis now [due to spare tonnage]. I also think the KDK-3 will not provide consistant damage as to get any form of superior or equal firepower to the SB it needs to double fire it's Uac's thus jamming. It also has the fast that it can't fire it's UAC 20's together.
-shrugs-. Guess it's down to personal prefference. but for me Ballistic + Missile combo is always superior in brawling than ballistic boating or other combinations. the mixture of sheer firepower, DPS, and accuracy.

[Lightfoot]

That's too few hardpoints for a hero mech. It would never be used over the regular variants so it's just the paint job that makes it a hero.

[Aleski]

Lightfoot, on 25 February 2016 - 10:49 AM, said:

That's too few hardpoints for a hero mech. It would never be used over the regular variants so it's just the paint job that makes it a hero.

Hum hum... MASC anyone ? It's the only variant with this possibility... Just sayin'

[SoulReaver7500]

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE how fast these things die, took out 3 of them, in a row with a DW. Like shooting holes through tissue paper

[ImperialKnight]

The poll is pointless. Why would more of anything be bad? Why not poll more armor? Or more energy hardpoints? Or more quirks? Of course anything additional with no drawbacks would make a purchase more attractive.

The Spirit Bear is beast enough as it is. Not KDK-3 level beast, but still packs a good punch. Look at the tournament boards, the KDK-3 and SB scores are way higher than the other variants for a reason.

The SB does NOT need anything more. People just need to build it right and play to its strengths.

4 SRM6+A and LBX20 is the way to go. Full FLD brawler build on a 100 ton Assault that goes 70+ kph. Forget energy and do full shield arms.

[Miles McQuiston]

Argument could be made for all previously purchased hero mechs. I want an additional x hard point on x hero. I would buy x hero if it was improved in x way. Work with what you got. You go to war with the Army you have not the Army you would like to have.

Edited by BAHS, 22 May 2016 - 10:24 AM.

[Logan Frost]

Absolutely not. Not now at least. Perhaps once there are fewer than five per team we can talk about making them more dangerous. Right this second however, especially with the quad AC/gauss builds, no.

Even though I do not think they are OP, if they continue to make up half the teams numbers, PGI is going to hurt it just do curb the tide.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

SB could probably use an extra energy hardpoint in each arm; 1 each seems light.

While a 2nd ballistc hardpoint (in the RT) sounds good, it actually sound TOO good. I'm a bit afraid of what that would look like.

[Snazzy Dragon]

hell no, 1 uac20 with 4 srm6s is more than enough

[C E Dwyer]

Shirow, on 04 February 2016 - 05:13 AM, said:

i play IS, but the Kodiak with two ballistic hardpoints i know i will switch to Clan lol

Apparently it didn't need the extra ballistic for you to switch