19 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I've been bringing friends into MWO, especially after the steam update but I'm getting tired of all the "LRMs are OP" complaints.

I've told them just how weak LRMs actually are, told them how they can be countered, yet I still see them trying to drive their mechs right across open land trying to get to places while they get rained on even with cover all around. When I ask them what they were doing and why they didn't take cover they usually say there was none or what they found wasn't high enough *even though they were in small mechs with ample cover around* and that LRMs come in from too high up.

I've tried doing group matches and running ECM and AMS but they tend to stray from me in matches and get killed. I've had other matches where I'm in assault mechs while they are in fast mediums and they still manage to die horribly to LRMs while I never take a single hit even after being targeted. One friend said that he tried to stay back and shoot because people kept getting behind him when he would be with the group...

Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone has any good ideas for training new pilots against LRMs, simply explaining things to them doesn't seem to work. Its been frustrating my friend that he dies to LRM boats almost every match because he stood too far back and got spotted by a light mech and usually dies to a combination of being assaulted by a light while LRMs rain from the heavens and its been frustrating to me that hes not learning too fast. I just would love to help out a bit, but I need some ideas.

[FupDup]

Maybe put the shoe on the other foot?

Give them an LRM boat to drive and see how well they do with it after at least a dozen matches. You can make it harder on them by not letting them use TAG, Narc, or Target Decay.

[Wintersdark]

FupDup, on 04 February 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

Maybe put the shoe on the other foot?

Give them an LRM boat to drive and see how well they do with it after at least a dozen matches. You can make it harder on them by not letting them use TAG, Narc, or Target Decay.

Actually, this is a very good idea.

By playing an LRM boat, you learn what sorts of behaviour makes it very hard to hit your targets, and the frustration at your inability to harm some players in any meaningful way acts as an excellent teaching tool.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

FupDup, on 04 February 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

Maybe put the shoe on the other foot?

Give them an LRM boat to drive and see how well they do with it after at least a dozen matches. You can make it harder on them by not letting them use TAG, Narc, or Target Decay.

I did suggest it but at this point they've developed a hatred of LRMs and their users and "don't wish to do such distasteful things". Still I could try and push harder, maybe that trial Catapult could get some use. After using LRMs you can see just how easy it is to counter them and what people are doing who died to them.

[FupDup]

Dakota1000, on 04 February 2016 - 06:42 PM, said:

I did suggest it but at this point they've developed a hatred of LRMs and their users and "don't wish to do such distasteful things". Still I could try and push harder, maybe that trial Catapult could get some use. After using LRMs you can see just how easy it is to counter them and what people are doing who died to them.

Well, maybe put them in Cute Foxes with 3 AMS + ECM + Radar Derp?

[Thunder Child]

Another option, if you have Premium (and don't mind spotting your mate a Day of Premium, if he doesn't have any), is to jump into a private lobby with your newbies, give them all LRM boats, and tell them they have to kill you. Then grab a Non-ECM (and preferably not a Lolfox either) mech of any flavour, and beat them into the dirt with Direct Fire.

Ideally, it should be multiple Lurm rooks, versus one Direct Fire.

[Ted Wayz]

Don't like to do such distasteful things? Nice.

Let the bodies hit the floor!

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

FupDup, on 04 February 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

Well, maybe put them in Cute Foxes with 3 AMS + ECM + Radar Derp?

I'd love to, but Kit Foxes are like 6 million cbills for them to buy unless you are suggesting I give everyone a 30 dollar Kit Fox pack... which I'm unable to do. I do suggest they try out AMS and ECM, and Radar Derp would be what I suggest when they finally get enough GXP.

Thunder Child, on 04 February 2016 - 06:48 PM, said:

Another option, if you have Premium (and don't mind spotting your mate a Day of Premium, if he doesn't have any), is to jump into a private lobby with your newbies, give them all LRM boats, and tell them they have to kill you. Then grab a Non-ECM (and preferably not a Lolfox either) mech of any flavour, and beat them into the dirt with Direct Fire.

Ideally, it should be multiple Lurm rooks, versus one Direct Fire.

I'll try that out next time I get them online, some might have premium and I can probably spare a little bit of money for a premium time gift for a friend and he can lead the party.

Only problem with the situation there is that we've done a few 1v2s and 2v2s before and at one point I had them both in King Crabs (and again in Dire Wolves) vs just me in an Executioner and I cut them apart. Similar happened with me and one other friend playing as lights against them. I also 1v1 the next best in the group with a Centurion while hes in a Timber Wolf.

What are some things I can do to tie a hand behind my back to make this LRM trial have any meaning.

[Thunder Child]

Dakota1000, on 04 February 2016 - 06:57 PM, said:

I'd love to, but Kit Foxes are like 6 million cbills for them to buy unless you are suggesting I give everyone a 30 dollar Kit Fox pack... which I'm unable to do. I do suggest they try out AMS and ECM, and Radar Derp would be what I suggest when they finally get enough GXP.



I'll try that out next time I get them online, some might have premium and I can probably spare a little bit of money for a premium time gift for a friend and he can lead the party.

Only problem with the situation there is that we've done a few 1v2s and 2v2s before and at one point I had them both in King Crabs (and again in Dire Wolves) vs just me in an Executioner and I cut them apart. Similar happened with me and one other friend playing as lights against them. I also 1v1 the next best in the group with a Centurion while hes in a Timber Wolf.

What are some things I can do to tie a hand behind my back to make this LRM trial have any meaning.

You say 2v2? Sounds like a good 3v1 option. Is the Catapult still available as an LRM Trial? Get them to jump in that, and you jump in some other Trial mech, preferably something underwhelming, like an Adder. Pick a good Lurm Map (Polar Highlands seems to be getting a lot of Flak, though I still think Alpine is better for LRMs).

The point is not to win the match. The point is to show how easy it is to break locks, spread damage, hit and run, etc.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Thunder Child, on 04 February 2016 - 07:06 PM, said:

You say 2v2? Sounds like a good 3v1 option. Is the Catapult still available as an LRM Trial? Get them to jump in that, and you jump in some other Trial mech, preferably something underwhelming, like an Adder. Pick a good Lurm Map (Polar Highlands seems to be getting a lot of Flak, though I still think Alpine is better for LRMs).

The point is not to win the match. The point is to show how easy it is to break locks, spread damage, hit and run, etc.

I like this one. I'll rally the gang together next time and try this. Thanks.

[Clownwarlord]

Best way to teach a new player is get them in a match and they die in and have them actually watch you play as you explain what you are doing and why you are doing it. That way they can see, understand, and then hopefully take it into their next match. The more they do it after that the better they get at using your tips. This is what I did.

Edited by clownwarlord, 04 February 2016 - 07:22 PM.

[FupDup]

Dakota1000, on 04 February 2016 - 06:57 PM, said:

I'd love to, but Kit Foxes are like 6 million cbills for them to buy unless you are suggesting I give everyone a 30 dollar Kit Fox pack... which I'm unable to do. I do suggest they try out AMS and ECM, and Radar Derp would be what I suggest when they finally get enough GXP.

Damn I forgot about money issues, because I myself am a Mech Romney so I don't have to buy stuff much...

The Paulconomy™ is real.

What kind of mechs, mods, and equipment do they have already? Might have to try to work with the limited supply they've got.

If you go the private match route, maybe you can just use something really weak like a single LRM10 or whatever just as a demonstration piece, and make them DOOOODGE!!!

[pbiggz]

How to counter LRMs:

Step 1: Stand behind rock
Step 2: There is no step 2

I stole this from someone and i don't remember who.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

FupDup, on 04 February 2016 - 07:22 PM, said:

What kind of mechs, mods, and equipment do they have already? Might have to try to work with the limited supply they've got.

You don't want to know... but I'll tell you.

One friend tends to go out and buy light mechs in the middle of the night then complains to me that he doesn't like light mechs but keeps buying them. His most used is his AC10 "urban Spider" with a low engine. He does have a Firebrand and King Crab he enjoys however.

Another I've only seen run around in a single PPC commando and a Raven with machine guns, 1 medium laser, 1 tag, and an LRM20.

Another has a Locust, BlackJack DC with UAC5s, the champion Cicada from that last event, and a Jager with dual gauss.

One other has a Jager mech and I don't know of any others.

Last one is a friend from back in beta who came back after two years. He isn't doing too bad though and has a decent amount of mechs and can pilot well enough most of the time on his own.


None have modules of any sort, none have elited any mechs, and most don't have any more than one or two XL engines for either their heavy mechs or their lights, usually one that isn't the most optimal.


It ain't easy.

The dodge drills do seem good also, I could link it with the one where I dodge their LRMs vs 3 then have them attempt to dodge my LRMs... (shudders remembering that time I did a 1v1 with my friend from beta while I was using a mad dog with 6 LRM10s against his King Crab... before you ask I hill humped hard and cut off a torso while he was walking to my firing position then when he was about to get close I moved to another one about 500M away and repeated it killing him without taking much damage).

I should make sure they are in something decently mobile, at least to start.

[RoboPatton]

Radar Derp.

Get at least one and move it around to the mechs they are using

[Khobai]

i train new players to stand in front of me to counter me getting hit by lrms

[Malachy Karrde]

I use Radar Derp in most mechs. I also have an AMS mounted in about 75% of my builds. Learning to use LRMs is most effective in learning to avoid them. If I am going to LRM someone these days, they aren't going to be able to evade them players that truly master LRMS are very hard to counter. Fortunately LRMs are usually just a fad and most players move on. The ones that have learned how to make them effective and don't just fire and forget are the ones you need to avoid.

[JP Josh]

i just told my friends lrms are stupid punishers if you get killed by them you played wrong.

Edited by JP Josh, 04 February 2016 - 08:11 PM.

[Ultimax]

There is no counter to LRMs when you are new, because the counter for LRMs is not actually just "cover" it's map knowledge.

New players do not have map knowledge.


This is why LRMs are a toxic weapon system.

They teach bad habits to the users and give them a false sense of contribution, they prey on weaker players who don't have the toolbox to avoid them and they penalize even vets because sometimes there is nothing you can do to keep your team mates from face tanking LRM volleys and getting rekt.

[Wild Pegasus]

Ultimax, on 04 February 2016 - 08:40 PM, said:

There is no counter to LRMs when you are new, because the counter for LRMs is not actually just "cover" it's map knowledge.

New players do not have map knowledge.

This is why I always strongly encourage people to make use of the testing grounds, because there are very few games that let you fully explore maps outside of actual gameplay and the fact that MWO lets you do it is extremely useful. Once you play a couple games and know where the hot spots on a map are, you can go back in the testing grounds and pick that area apart looking for where good cover and safe travel lanes are, and that makes a world of difference in overall survivability.