50 replies to this topic

[Donnybrook]

NARC Beacon

This equipment can be a powerful tool in the right hands, but I rarely ever see it. I'm beginning to wonder if that's because slotting one is a sacrifice without much individual reward.

1) Intended for hardpoint and tonnage-limited Light mechs who can dart or stealth around that 450m range.

2) A mech must devote a minimum of 3 slots and 4 tons, assuming at least 1 ton of ammo, equivalent to a SRM6 (not insignificant firepower for a Light mech).

3) There are only 12 rounds per mag, meaning you better not miss with what's essentially a dumb fire weapon.

4) Player can only get XP and C-bills once per NARC'd mech. If their target isn't obliterated when NARC'd, there's no reward for NARCing them again.

Personally, I'd like to see a 50% change in NARC specs to make it more attractive and less punishing.

• 1 slot, 1.5 tons (like a Streak SRM2)
  
• 18 rounds per mag

This way, it's less punishing fitting a NARC build on a Light, and there's more forgiveness for missed or repeat targets. But what do you guys think?

[FupDup]

PGI has a strict stance that they will never, ever, in a million gazillion years, change the tonnage or critical slots of any item ever.

As such, we have to try to make items worth their weight instead of just making them lighter/smaller.


Ammo counts per ton, however, are fair game.

Edited by FupDup, 04 February 2016 - 03:44 PM.

[Khobai]

I personally think NARC beacons should explode for 6-8 damage when their duration expires. Or maybe just have a toggle that makes NARC beacons explode on impact instead of sticking to the target.

Battletech has explosive NARC beacons, draconis combine uses them, so its not far-fetched to combine the regular NARC beacon with the explosive NARC beacon.

A large part of the problem with NARC is that its completely useless if your team doesnt bring LRMs. Making NARC beacons explode for damage helps alleviate that problem somewhat by giving them a use even when your team doesnt have LRMs. Itd be about equivalent to an SRM4.

Edited by Khobai, 04 February 2016 - 03:49 PM.

[Pjwned]

Khobai, on 04 February 2016 - 03:46 PM, said:

I personally think NARC beacons should explode for 6-8 damage when their duration expires.

Battletech has explosive NARC beacons, draconis combine uses them, so its not far-fetched to combine the regular NARC beacon with the explosive NARC beacon.

That's sort of neat I guess, but I don't know how people (including PGI) feel about delayed damage like that.

[Monkey Lover]

Narc is such a powerful weapon im not sure changing anything would be a good idea. I have won so many games because i narced with a light. I wouldnt want to see this being used more.

[Khobai]

Quote

That's sort of neat I guess, but I don't know how people (including PGI) feel about delayed damage like that.

yeah that occurred to me too. thats why I edited my post with the idea of a toggle that could toggle it between NARC mode and explode on impact mode.

Quote

Narc is such a powerful weapon im not sure changing anything would be a good idea. I have won so many games because i narced with a light. I wouldnt want to see this being used more.

I agree NARC is powerful when the stars align and everything comes together perfectly and your team rains down LRMs on a map with little or no hard cover (polrm crylands lol).

But like I said, the problem with NARC is that its damn useless if your team doesnt have LRMs. Its always one extreme or the other... which is why I thought making NARC beacons explode and being the functional equivalent of an SRM4 could make NARC less extreme and more consistently useful.

Edited by Khobai, 04 February 2016 - 03:54 PM.

[Wolfways]

It would be good if you could load both types of ammo and choose which to fire in game.

[Clownwarlord]

How about increase ammo count to 18 per ton, speed up the shot, and lastly increase the range.

Also narc is only worth taking when OTHERS are using lrms because you have to get so close and the shot is so slow you spend to much time shooting that than lrms if you are an lrm mech. So at lower tiers not an issue but at tier 2 and 1 it becomes a problem.

[Wolfways]

Khobai, on 04 February 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

But like I said, the problem with NARC is that its damn useless if your team doesnt have LRMs. Its always one extreme or the other... which is why I thought making NARC beacons explode and being the functional equivalent of an SRM4 could make NARC less extreme and more consistently useful.

I think the problem there isn't NARC but that LRM's are so bad that most players don't use them. Obviously LRM's need buffed

[Narcissistic Martyr]

FupDup, on 04 February 2016 - 03:44 PM, said:

PGI has a strict stance that they will never, ever, in a million gazillion years, change the tonnage or critical slots of any item ever.

As such, we have to try to make items worth their weight instead of just making them lighter/smaller.


Ammo counts per ton, however, are fair game.

They could however say add an extra head critical slot in place of a CT critical slot or something. I mean, I'd use one on my grasshoppers if it fit. I do use one on my Whammy 3R when it isn't in dual ac20 joke mode

[Wolfways]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 04 February 2016 - 03:57 PM, said:

They could however say add an extra head critical slot in place of a CT critical slot or something. I mean, I'd use one on my grasshoppers if it fit. I do use one on my Whammy 3R when it isn't in dual ac20 joke mode

Weight and crit slots will never be touched.

[FupDup]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 04 February 2016 - 03:57 PM, said:

They could however say add an extra head critical slot in place of a CT critical slot or something. I mean, I'd use one on my grasshoppers if it fit. I do use one on my Whammy 3R when it isn't in dual ac20 joke mode

They can't do that either. Only way to get more head slots is to either:

A. Equip small cockpit. Since MWO cockpit weights are allocated into engine weights, this would require a mechlab overhaul.

B. Equip torso cockpit. This requires the same problem as A, in addition to moving a whole bunch of item slots around and causing general tomfoolery with many different rules being in effect.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

FupDup, on 04 February 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

They can't do that either. Only way to get more head slots is to either:

A. Equip small cockpit. Since MWO cockpit weights are allocated into engine weights, this would require a mechlab overhaul.

B. Equip torso cockpit. This requires the same problem as A, in addition to moving a whole bunch of item slots around and causing general tomfoolery with many different rules being in effect.

I'm suggesting they trade one that's normally empty from the CT into the head so you end up with 1 more head slot and one fewer CT slots.. It's not TT legal of course but even as a massive TT fan I'm willing to accept a few compromises in TT rule rigidity if it helps game play.

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 04 February 2016 - 04:06 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Khobai, on 04 February 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

But like I said, the problem with NARC is that its damn useless if your team doesnt have LRMs. Its always one extreme or the other... which is why I thought making NARC beacons explode and being the functional equivalent of an SRM4 could make NARC less extreme and more consistently useful.

I dont even care about narc for lrms. When people are narced they hide. Just narcing a few people will get them to take cover and my team will roll over them.

When they're narced my teams knows where to head them off if theyre moving. A good team with put up a firing line and kill them.

Narc is like taking command of the pugs Narc in higher levels, that's a little different and i would say not as useful.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 04 February 2016 - 04:08 PM.

[FupDup]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 04 February 2016 - 04:05 PM, said:

I'm suggesting they trade one that's normally empty from the CT into the head. It's not TT legal of course but even as a massive TT fan I'm willing to accept a few compromises in TT rule rigidity if it helps game play.

Whether or not you or I accept it doesn't matter if PGI doesn't.

For the Hopper in particular I wish it had jacked up missile cooldown quirks, to make the face missile funny...

Edited by FupDup, 04 February 2016 - 04:07 PM.

[Pjwned]

Khobai, on 04 February 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

yeah that occurred to me too. thats why I edited my post with the idea of a toggle that could toggle it between NARC mode and explode on impact mode.

Well, we all know how well that worked for clan autocannons.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Be pretty cool if NARC beacons didn't just get shot down by AMS, they are already hard enough to hit people with at long range, but if you even try and anyone in the area had a single AMS you are just wasting that one shot. The LRMs and SRMs don't quite have this problem since they fire in volleys and the SRMs have much faster travel times.

[SQW]

Correction: target needs to be obliterated BY LRM to get the narc kill bonus.

Also, NARC missiles CAN be shot down by AMS especially if multiple AMSs is covering the area.

The lack of NARC is more to do with old map designs and how you can't guarantee your pub queue team will boat LRM. If we have more maps like Polar, then people will start using it.

Personally, I just want the active time increased to like 45sec and get a little c-bill for a successful narc like the spotting bonus (once per mech).

[Clownwarlord]

THE NARC IS TO BIG TO FAIL!!!

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FupDup, on 04 February 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

Whether or not you or I accept it doesn't matter if PGI doesn't.

For the Hopper in particular I wish it had jacked up missile cooldown quirks, to make the face missile funny...

You mean like a certain bugged Quickdraw on the test server?