62 replies to this topic

[GrimRiver]

Lukoi Banacek, on 07 February 2016 - 12:05 PM, said:

Why does MM need to do this? Folks can win every match with the Mechs given for the most part. The fault isn't the matchmaker giving you a synergistic DROPDEC, it's people not wanting to adjust their playstyle in game based on what's present. It's called teamwork and it starts with a few seconds of coordination up front to see what you have and if people are willing to play team ball.

In pug queue, I realize that can be a pita, but if folks are going to do their own thing, regardless of how the group is comprised, it really doesn't matter if you get some pre-ordained special grouping or not. You're still going to lose that match without massive heroics and luck.

Not since the days of purely open matchmaking, where one side could be days-of-yore equivalents of tier 1's in heavies and assaults versus a group of tier 5's in frankenmech mediums have we truly had a situation where one side was truly screwed by the mechs each side dropped on any regular basis.

People don't want to deviate from their particular playstyle and wants, subborn their fragile egos a bit and try to play some team ******* ball...so they deserve to lose.

OP, you got outcapped because your slower team assumed some risk and got too far from your base. In the thousands of games played by you is it really that big a deal for you that you cannot shake it off and move on?

Might be you and not matchmaker man. Just saying.

Not sure how it's my fault when my team mostly gets 1 light while their team gets a full lance that wipes our 1 light and it's left to our beat up assaults or legged mediums to out cap the left over enemy light lance on conquest, I'm not whining I'm just saying the MM is largely in the favor of one side alot of the times, even though the side in favor does lose sometimes it doesn't make any less annoying.

And from what I've said in my other post in doesn't always gain them a win but it does help to have lights, ECM and a LRMboats.

Alot of the losses wasn't from the lack of skill it was because the matchmaker sorted a better equipped team the mine.

I've even watched proteams on twitch lose out to PUGS because the proteams didn't have as many ECM ACH's and LRMboats+NARC's as the other team, does that make them less skilled? Nope, just the MM is unbalance since it doesn't take ECM, lights and LRMboat into account which I think it needs to.

[Darian DelFord]

adamts01, on 07 February 2016 - 11:29 AM, said:

There are lots of things my team could have done differently, this isn't about that. Balance and roles are something else also. Lights have a place and serve a purpose, they're my most played weight, and if PGI stuck with 3/3/3/3, at least in solo que, games would be more varied and better.

That works if you have a straight 25% split between all weight drops but you do not. You have a 10% Light a 15% medium a 55% Heavy and a 20% Assault split.

The MM then has to choose PSR + weight class for each match. Therefore you WILL have an uneven number of mechs. I am at the high end of Tier 2 currently and I am usually the only light mech on my team. Also if there is a light mech on your side, there is a light mech on their side. If there are 10 Heavines on your side there are 10 heavies on their side. The MM does match up weight class

adamts01, on 07 February 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

Heavies are the best, it's a problem, but that's the way it is. Lights are still fun to play, I prefer them, and if PGI enforced 3/3/3/3, there would be many more people playing lights.

If PGI enforced that EVERY MATCH MUST BE 3/3/3/3/ you would be waiting up to 5 minutes for a match

GrimRiver, on 07 February 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

MM needs a revamp to ensure everybody's team always gets at least: 1 ECM, 2 lights, 1 LRMboat. At least.

I can't remember the time when my team had at least those all at one time, it's been 1 ECM light(mostly a ACH nowdays), 1 LRMboat or 1 light+NARC with no LRMboats on our side.

But the enemy gets the full array of ECM's, LRMboats and a full light lance most of the time.

Though it still doesn't gain them a win mostly but it really does help to have those types on on your team.

Seriously? YOu have no idea how the MM works, look above

GrimRiver, on 07 February 2016 - 12:47 PM, said:

Not sure how it's my fault when my team mostly gets 1 light while their team gets a full lance that wipes our 1 light and it's left to our beat up assaults or legged mediums to out cap the left over enemy light lance on conquest, I'm not whining I'm just saying the MM is largely in the favor of one side alot of the times, even though the side in favor does lose sometimes it doesn't make any less annoying.

And from what I've said in my other post in doesn't always gain them a win but it does help to have lights, ECM and a LRMboats.

Alot of the losses wasn't from the lack of skill it was because the matchmaker sorted a better equipped team the mine.

I've even watched proteams on twitch lose out to PUGS because the proteams didn't have as many ECM ACH's and LRMboats+NARC's as the other team, does that make them less skilled? Nope, just the MM is unbalance since it doesn't take ECM, lights and LRMboat into account which I think it needs to.

Again learn how the MM really works, You will not have 1 light on your side and 4 on theirs in the solo queue

Edited by Darian DelFord, 07 February 2016 - 01:01 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

adamts01, on 07 February 2016 - 12:42 PM, said:

As far as me not doing my part, that's rarely the case, and certainly not in this match, read my other comments. I'm a crappy shot but my maneuvering and calls were by the book.

Never did I say your skill was at issue here. But the calls of the TEAM, clearly were not by the "book" or your team would not have been so far forward as to be unable to react to the cap by the enemy team.

You know what mechs you have. Your team pushes past what it can do with them and the enemy takes advantage of that, it's simply a loss to learn from.

The issue here isn't heavies vs other weights. It's people working against their own dropdecs because of how they envision how they want things to be vice what they are.

Doesn't mean I don't agree, I'd like there to be a reason to play lights and mediums more, and to feel like I'm not going to get swarmed by a light rush before I can bring my assault into the mix more often, but that's honestly a different issue than your OP gets at.

Edited by Lukoi Banacek, 07 February 2016 - 01:30 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

GrimRiver, on 07 February 2016 - 12:47 PM, said:

And from what I've said in my other post in doesn't always gain them a win but it does help to have lights, ECM and a LRMboats.

Alot of the losses wasn't from the lack of skill it was because the matchmaker sorted a better equipped team the mine.

I've even watched proteams on twitch lose out to PUGS because the proteams didn't have as many ECM ACH's and LRMboats+NARC's as the other team, does that make them less skilled? Nope, just the MM is unbalance since it doesn't take ECM, lights and LRMboat into account which I think it needs to.

The fact that you even think LRM+NARC is somehow the "better equipment" in this game's current state or that the 90m ECM bubble is somehow problematic simply demonstrates you don't understand my underlying point.

You could get EXACTLY the MM you ask for and still struggle to win games because you have yet to glean that playing counter to the capabilities of your particular mix of mechs is the problem, not the mechs you got given. It's not 12 assaults versus 12 x 83 kph urbies here. You have a reasonable complement of mechs but people choose to play against those strengths and then cry about them.

It'll happen when you get your minimum # of lights, ECM and LRM's as well, never fear. Then what will the complaint about the MM be?

[adamts01]

Darian DelFord, on 07 February 2016 - 12:58 PM, said:

If PGI enforced that EVERY MATCH MUST BE 3/3/3/3/ you would be waiting up to 5 minutes for a match

Not true. My light would get plenty of drops. Other people would play something besides heavies so they could get faster drops too. The heavy que is only so high because PGI is allowing 6 per match. It's like they're giving in to the terrorists. But, the bigger problem is that lights don't have much purpose, aside from standing in squares. Regardless, 3/3/3/3 would add variety to this stale meta game.

[GrimRiver]

Darian DelFord, on 07 February 2016 - 12:58 PM, said:

That works if you have a straight 25% split between all weight drops but you do not. You have a 10% Light a 15% medium a 55% Heavy and a 20% Assault split.

The MM then has to choose PSR + weight class for each match. Therefore you WILL have an uneven number of mechs. I am at the high end of Tier 2 currently and I am usually the only light mech on my team. Also if there is a light mech on your side, there is a light mech on their side. If there are 10 Heavines on your side there are 10 heavies on their side. The MM does match up weight class




If PGI enforced that EVERY MATCH MUST BE 3/3/3/3/ you would be waiting up to 5 minutes for a match





Seriously? YOu have no idea how the MM works, look above







Again learn how the MM really works, You will not have 1 light on your side and 4 on theirs in the solo queue

I'll never have 1 light and 4 on theirs?

Funny because on terribad thema last night my supposed light lance was 1 SHD(me), 1 HBK, 1 HBK IIC and 1 WLF.

They had 2 ACH(both ECM), 1 RVN+NARC(I'm glad they didn't have LRMboats) and a SPR.

We still won...barely by 6 points on conquest.

I would upload videos of stuff like this but it take an hour just for a 5 minute video.

Edited by GrimRiver, 07 February 2016 - 01:48 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

adamts01, on 07 February 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

Regardless, 3/3/3/3 would add variety to this stale meta game.

And yet people hated it and railed against it in large enough numbers that PGI decided instead to let them play what they wanted in the solo queue instead. Fancy that.

[adamts01]

Lukoi Banacek, on 07 February 2016 - 01:31 PM, said:

And yet people hated it and railed against it in large enough numbers that PGI decided instead to let them play what they wanted in the solo queue instead. Fancy that.

I remember the cries about group que, but I didn't know there was that much of a problem about 3/3/3/3 in solo que. I was off the grid for a year though. I just feel like some of the maps/modes are build with mobility in mind (polar conquest). And if my same deck had been dropped on polar, while the enemy also had no lights, then what? Camp base? Both sides stay on our side of center? Send the scout (Nova) to find the enemy? It's just crap, and shouldn't be that way.

[GrimRiver]

Lukoi Banacek, on 07 February 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

The fact that you even think LRM+NARC is somehow the "better equipment" in this game's current state or that the 90m ECM bubble is somehow problematic simply demonstrates you don't understand my underlying point.

You could get EXACTLY the MM you ask for and still struggle to win games because you have yet to glean that playing counter to the capabilities of your particular mix of mechs is the problem, not the mechs you got given. It's not 12 assaults versus 12 x 83 kph urbies here. You have a reasonable complement of mechs but people choose to play against those strengths and then cry about them.

It'll happen when you get your minimum # of lights, ECM and LRM's as well, never fear. Then what will the complaint about the MM be?

I didn't say "Better equipment(which LRM's is not)", I said better equipped as in more LRMboats, ECM and lights+NARC.

Even if my team used cover, AMS and radar derp it still wouldn't counter NARC's effects+LRM's raining hell unless my side had ECM supporting the NARCed teammates which we lacked because the MM seems to hate putting ECM on my side alot of the times.

But as I've stated before even with the odds against us it doesn't always end in a loss, it's just very annoying that it even happens at all.

[Lukoi Banacek]

adamts01, on 07 February 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

I remember the cries about group que, but I didn't know there was that much of a problem about 3/3/3/3 in solo que. I was off the grid for a year though. I just feel like some of the maps/modes are build with mobility in mind (polar conquest). And if my same deck had been dropped on polar, while the enemy also had no lights, then what? Camp base? Both sides stay on our side of center? Send the scout (Nova) to find the enemy? It's just crap, and shouldn't be that way.

So the argument there is map design. I don't disagree with you there. The points need to be placed in such a way as to encourage fights and tactics but not necessarily just another skirmish mode. Which is why I've long argued assault mode should be asymetric and not dual obj's as it is now (since that's largely unrealistic anyway).

[Lukoi Banacek]

GrimRiver, on 07 February 2016 - 01:43 PM, said:

I didn't say "Better equipment(which LRM's is not)", I said better equipped as in more LRMboats, ECM and lights+NARC.

Even if my team used cover, AMS and radar derp it still wouldn't counter NARC's effects+LRM's raining hell unless my side had ECM supporting the NARCed teammates which we lacked because the MM seems to hate putting ECM on my side alot of the times.

But as I've stated before even with the odds against us it doesn't always end in a loss, it's just very annoying that it even happens at all.

LRM boats+NARC are not better mechs or indicative of a better equipped team. Nor is ECM that much of a factor any more. Splitting hairs doesn't change the premise. Those mechs you're pointing to as examples of a better DROPDEC for a team is simply proving that you don't understand the underlying point.

It's people playing counter to the strengths of their DROPDEC. It's not the mechs and the MM contributing to losses in these descriptions, it's people hanging back with their LRM boats and not sharing armor while their team gets shredded, it's lights rushing off to die in a scrum they have no business in, instead of scouting, it's people trying to brawl in ERLL mechs, and people rushing past the point of the map where they can reasonably expect to get back to base in time to stop a cap.

[wanderer]

GrimRiver, on 07 February 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

I'll never have 1 light and 4 on theirs?

Funny because on terribad thema last night my supposed light lance was 1 SHD(me), 1 HBK, 1 HBK IIC and 1 WLF.

They had 2 ACH(both ECM), 1 RVN+NARC(I'm glad they didn't have LRMboats) and a SPR.

We still won...barely by 6 points on conquest.

I would upload videos of stuff like this but it take an hour just for a 5 minute video.

Just SS the end screen. That's all you need to show it happened.

[GrimRiver]

wanderer, on 07 February 2016 - 02:10 PM, said:

Just SS the end screen. That's all you need to show it happened.

I never used SS before, can this be done with shadowplay?

I'll use steam overlay which I hate because it glitches out some of my games.

Edited by GrimRiver, 07 February 2016 - 02:22 PM.

[adamts01]

GrimRiver, on 07 February 2016 - 02:18 PM, said:

I never used SS before, can this be done with shadowplay?

"SCREEN SHOT" just it "prt scn" on your keyboard. the screen shot will be saved under user saved games mwo screenshots

[Mystere]

jaytar, on 07 February 2016 - 10:34 AM, said:

the problem with assault is everyone over extends and can't get back to base to defend it.so it's not the game mode it's the players.

The problem has always been the players. So many just refuse to look in the mirror and admit it.

Edited by Mystere, 07 February 2016 - 02:41 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

GrimRiver, on 07 February 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

I'll never have 1 light and 4 on theirs?

Funny because on terribad thema last night my supposed light lance was 1 SHD(me), 1 HBK, 1 HBK IIC and 1 WLF.

They had 2 ACH(both ECM), 1 RVN+NARC(I'm glad they didn't have LRMboats) and a SPR.

We still won...barely by 6 points on conquest.

I would upload videos of stuff like this but it take an hour just for a 5 minute video.

Don't drop in the group queue then.

Unless you happen into the 1 in 10 billion chance, I doubt this happened. I have yet to have a solo queue match that was not even in regards to weight class.

adamts01, on 07 February 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

"SCREEN SHOT" just it "prt scn" on your keyboard. the screen shot will be saved under user saved games mwo screenshots

And if you have to replay the video you can easily capture a screen shot from the end of the vid.

If not what adam said and hit prnt screen at the end of the match

adamts01, on 07 February 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

Not true. My light would get plenty of drops. Other people would play something besides heavies so they could get faster drops too. The heavy que is only so high because PGI is allowing 6 per match. It's like they're giving in to the terrorists. But, the bigger problem is that lights don't have much purpose, aside from standing in squares. Regardless, 3/3/3/3 would add variety to this stale meta game.

Some folks hate lights, some hate heavies. To strictly enforce 3/3/3/3 is a bad idea. I strongly disagree with where PGI is headed with MWO. However I agree with the release valves they have built into the MM. I still miss being able to group up in group queue with my Jenner lance and have fun.

Is the MM perfect no. However PGI has to balance the MM with the ability to allow folks to play the mechs they want to play with as little delay as possible. The few times I have taken a heavy usually when I am trying to master one, I have often dropped in a match with no lights. It does not bother me. If I am on conquest or assault I make sure I am cognizant of capping.

I can not control the other players. As is evident here my team was clueless to the fact of what was really going on, despite me telling them what was happening, they were to damn chicken to push the advantage they had, because the Heavies were afraid to get dented.

Its the nature of the MM, not everyone in there is a team player.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 07 February 2016 - 02:41 PM.

[Mystere]

wanderer, on 07 February 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

Your team had two decently fast mediums and at least one decently fast heavy that could have intervened.

None could, (they died to the Cicada) and the other side played a delaying action long enough to lose the battle but win the war and the match. The proper response here is "GG, team forgot this wasn't Skirmish." Considering the capper also killed two of your team, it's not like he wasn't fighting. Cut your sodium intake and quit being salty, he did exactly what you should do when Terra Therma bogs down to ramp fighting- cap and win. 2/3'rds of Therma's game modes basically allow you to give the usual center-camping stupidity a middle finger of scorn and force the campers out, an option that far too many dim-witted PUGs ignore in favor of walking into choke points and getting mowed down like grass.

Edit: Heck, they got a Dire Wolf in there too? If a 54kph 'Mech can be capping your base, they split you nicely.

I capped using a Dire Wolf once in Terra Therma ... and blasted to smithereens anyone that tried to dislodge me from their base.

Then I repeated the same thing in Alpine Peaks in the same Dire Wolf. <maniacal >

GrimRiver, on 07 February 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

MM needs a revamp to ensure everybody's team always gets at least: 1 ECM, 2 lights, 1 LRMboat. At least.

I can't remember the time when my team had at least those all at one time, it's been 1 ECM light(mostly a ACH nowdays), 1 LRMboat or 1 light+NARC with no LRMboats on our side.

But the enemy gets the full array of ECM's, LRMboats and a full light lance most of the time.

Though it still doesn't gain them a win mostly but it really does help to have those types on on your team.

How about gauss, laser boats, AMS, UAVs, etc., etc., etc.?

Edited by Mystere, 07 February 2016 - 02:45 PM.

[Mystere]

adamts01, on 07 February 2016 - 11:29 AM, said:

There are lots of things my team could have done differently, this isn't about that. Balance and roles are something else also. Lights have a place and serve a purpose, they're my most played weight, and if PGI stuck with 3/3/3/3, at least in solo que, games would be more varied and better.

Marcus Licinius Crassus led a Roman army composed mainly of heavy infantry into Mesopotamia and faced a 10,000 all-cavalry Parthian army, 9,000 of which were horse archers. Crassus died along with most of his men. Parthian casualties were minimal.

Those are the breaks the matchmaker gods sometimes gives you.

[adamts01]

Mystere, on 07 February 2016 - 02:57 PM, said:

Marcus Licinius Crassus led a Roman army composed mainly of heavy infantry into Mesopotamia and faced a 10,000 all-cavalry Parthian army, 9,000 of which were horse archers. Crassus died along with most of his men. Parthian casualties were minimal.

Those are the breaks the matchmaker gods sometimes gives you.

A-10s ***** slapped a couple tanks in Iraq and caused an entire ground army to surrender. Guess who would pay money to play a video game if they had to get owned in Iraqi tanks 50% of the time?.......

.......

.......

absolutely no one is the answer. You love comparing this game to actual war but it just doesn't translate.

[Mystere]

adamts01, on 07 February 2016 - 03:05 PM, said:

A-10s ***** slapped a couple tanks in Iraq and caused an entire ground army to surrender. Guess who would pay money to play a video game if they had to get owned in Iraqi tanks 50% of the time?.......

.......

.......

absolutely no one is the answer. You love comparing this game to actual war but it just doesn't translate.

And you missed my point ... by a galaxy.