10 replies to this topic

[K1AN]

Hey,

So i'm a very new player, and I've been playing the stalkers. After playing the stalkers for awhile I went ahead and grabbed the Bundle.

Here are my 2 favorite stalkers that I tend to switch between, I've been getting an average of 800 - 400 damage per game. But I know there are mistakes and room for improvements. I was hoping someone could take a look and let me know if they have any advice or changes that I could make to improve the builds.

STK - M - MISERY K1AN BUILD

STK - 5M - STK-5M K1AN BUILD

Thanks guys!

[Koniving]

K1AN, on 07 February 2016 - 02:59 PM, said:

Thanks guys!

You're welcome.

First thing's first. MWO doesn't have repair and rearm... the inferior Ferro Fibrous Armor (over endo-steel chassis) is effectively worthless. Remove it in favor of Endo Steel, maximize the armor.

If there was repair and rearm, then past experience of when we had it would tell me that endo steel would -- when starting with 17 million cbills -- leave you heavily in debt within 2 weeks of 20 matches per day...with every single match digging you further into the hole. It'd be a huge risk versus reward choice. Presently it is meaningless.

Next.
Symmetry will make your life so much better.

On the 5M... you have only one arm using an SRM-6. Since there's a missile door involved, you get +10% protection while its door is shut.

Even though there is a door on the other arm... that arm will NOT get the +10%...because you don't have a launcher there. Furthermore... this design is going to invoke a heat penalty every time you fire all four SRM-6s at once. Mix it up a bit or chainfire it.

To further expand on the Symmetry issue... if you plan on turning Armlock off to have a wider range of attack capabilities and options, having one ER large on the torso and one in the arm... is diverting your firepower too much.

You won't be able to use the CT ER large to shoot up high or down really low, and if you forget to turn the Armlock back on, you'll almost never get the twin ER LL to converge on the same point for their entire beam durations. Consider slipping them both on the arms or just using a single ER LL. On a side note it's safe to use 5 ML altogether which would free up tonnage for a long range missile launcher.

But most importantly

You have FAR too little rear armor on a mech that can't turn!!!!
This is probably the biggest problem you have.

Edited by Koniving, 07 February 2016 - 03:23 PM.

[Koniving]

Quick example:

This build suffers heat punishments for too many SRM-4s

Notice the frequency of shutdowns?

This mech (in both builds) does NOT suffer punishments... notice the fact that this almost never shuts down.


...And one more, because Misery.

Back in 2013, this build (with 32 rear CT armor) was able to be surrounded by and tank 2 mechs using high alpha rapid kill meta of the time. The Stalker had 4 PPCs, the Atlas has Gauss + 4 ER PPCs... and I dragged it on for almost 3 minutes in a fight at less than 240 meters apart. I tanked these guys that bad as they pounded me from every side they could get at, as the Stalker lost all of its weapons, as the Atlas lost one torso and almost lost the other... My would be disabling blow on the Atlas landed on the disabled Stalker as he marched in front of me, and the Atlas's return fire finally got me.

This same build in late 2014...

in a single match.

Or visually, this Flamer Stalker in 2013... Note the Atlas alongside me is killed in exactly 13 seconds of the first shot.... by the same enemies I fight for several minutes.

Edited by Koniving, 07 February 2016 - 04:08 PM.

[K1AN]

Thank you for the advice, I've taken it on board and done some slight alterations.

Koniving, on 07 February 2016 - 03:22 PM, said:

First thing's first. MWO doesn't have repair and rearm... the inferior Ferro Fibrous Armor (over endo-steel chassis) is effectively worthless. Remove it in favor of Endo Steel, maximize the armor.

I'm not too sure if I understood this correctly, but If i did understand. You're saying that, If I can't maximize my armor on a mech, I should drop Ferror Fibrous Armour for Endo steel so that I can max it out! Which in this case could be applicable to the Misery? Who's lost some leg armor because of tonnage.

Koniving, on 07 February 2016 - 03:22 PM, said:

Next.
Symmetry will make your life so much better.

On the 5M... you have only one arm using an SRM-6. Since there's a missile door involved, you get +10% protection while its door is shut.

Even though there is a door on the other arm... that arm will NOT get the +10%...because you don't have a launcher there. Furthermore... this design is going to invoke a heat penalty every time you fire all four SRM-6s at once. Mix it up a bit or chainfire it.

To further expand on the Symmetry issue... if you plan on turning Armlock off to have a wider range of attack capabilities and options, having one ER large on the torso and one in the arm... is diverting your firepower too much.

You won't be able to use the CT ER large to shoot up high or down really low, and if you forget to turn the Armlock back on, you'll almost never get the twin ER LL to converge on the same point for their entire beam durations. Consider slipping them both on the arms or just using a single ER LL. On a side note it's safe to use 5 ML altogether which would free up tonnage for a long range missile launcher.

I've redone my 5M now according to the advice you've given, STK-5M K1AN BUILD 2 including back armor.

I've copied the same back armor layout for my Misery as well!

What do you think now?

Thank you for the videos

Edited by K1AN, 07 February 2016 - 04:25 PM.

[Koniving]

K1AN, on 07 February 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

Thank you for the advice, I've taken it on board and done some slight alterations.

I'm not too sure if I understood this correctly, but If i did understand. You're saying that, If I can't maximize my armor on a mech, I should drop Ferror Fibrous Armour for Endo steel so that I can max it out! Which in this case could be applicable to the Misery? Who's lost some leg armor because of tonnage.

You're welcome.

Okay.. Ferro saves you approximately some weight 'Mech at max armor... Endo Steel would save the same mech 5% weight. So on 100 tons, Ferro saves up to 2.5 tons and Endo saves 5 tons.
In the case of 85 ton Stalker, you save 1.76 tons with Ferro or 4 tons with Endo.

You will always save more weight with endo. It is blatantly superior... With repair and rearm (we won't see this again)... it was 3x more expensive than normal structure and almost four times more expensive than ferro armor to repair. (Only reason ferro exists is because of the R&R that isn't in the game anymore).

Quote

I've redone my 5M now according to the advice you've given, STK-5M K1AN BUILD 2 including back armor.

I've copied the same back armor layout for my Misery as well!

What do you think now?

Thank you for the videos

That'll work much better. Tank a lot more too. Last thing I'd change is you see how big the torso is, and how small the arms are? See those empty slots on the arms? Migrate the torso missile ammo there. Keep 'em safe like that. Besides if that ammo explodes in an arm, you have two 60% reductions in damage to protect you as the booms migrate into the side torso then the center torso. If it explodes in the side torso... it'll only go through one 60% reduction in damage.

You're welcome and good luck; you're using one of my favorite mechs. And I've got 191 of them.

[Wedge Red Leader]

In my experience, the bane of most pilots new or otherwise is to many and disparaging weapons groups.
A close second is not enough cooling.

Pilots usually fall back to what is comfortable and assured. Pilots generally favor LuRMS over everthing else. (And yes, this only applies to ppl actually running them) They favor lasers over ballistic. They favor ballistic over SRMs.

I have seen steely eye mech masters lay waste with disparaging builds, but they are the exception not the rule.
I'll leave this for your consideration.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4cf9297736fa054

Edited by Wedge Red Leader, 08 February 2016 - 08:11 AM.

[Macksheen]

My biggest piece of advice is that they seem slow.

If you can, see what builds you can make work w/ a STD 300 engine. I pretty much run a STD 300 in all my stalkers.

[Wedge Red Leader]

Macksheen, on 07 February 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

see what builds you can make work w/ a STD 300 engine. I pretty much run a STD 300 in all my stalkers.

Agreed.

Also I forgot, the one big item that requires skill on my build. That is avoiding the ghost heat. I suggest placing the left arm lasers in group 1, and right arm lasers in group 2. This will give you what I call ambi-peeking ability by not wasting shots and creating heat load. Or if you want maximum focused damage place 3 ERLs in each group.

Edited by Wedge Red Leader, 07 February 2016 - 08:08 PM.

[Scyther]

Agreed with Wedge and Macksheen, many new players focus on too much weapons tonnage, often with too much of a mix of weapon types, range, or location on the mech.

A couple guidelines:
-You almost always want max armor, and you want most of it in the front. (I usually shave 4-6 points off head and some off legs if I really need that extra bit of payload)
-Engine size = speed, maneuverability, torso twist speed, the ability to get into position for your shots and get out of the firing circle. Don't cheap out on engine to pack on more weapons unless you really know what you are doing.
-Weapons groups should have complementing effective range, cooldown, heat characteristics. Better to have a simple mix that you can fire and have all hit the target, than mixing 4 weapon types with slightly different firing/aiming characteristics.
-Not enough heat sinks - weapons that overheat you mid-battle aren't doing you any favors.
-As mentioned above, Endo beats Ferro. Despite the slightly confusing description, Ferro doesn't give you 'more' armor, it makes the armor you have lighter. Your 'max armor' value stays the same.

Having a couple effective weapons groups, a mech that can get where it needs to be, lay down some serious smack before overheating, and get back out to cool down or reposition - that's what you should be shooting for.

[Eaerie]

As stated trade the ferro armor for endo steel and this applies to any mech, always use endo steel over ferro armor. ALWAYS.

Next is the speed. If you are doing group drops and communicating well it isnt really as big an issue but in PUG land you will get left behind a lot and then a sneaky light will come and ruin your day. I like the 300STD engines in stalkers when possible and not a big fan of a guass rifle in a misery but that is my personal choice.

[Koniving]

Macksheen, on 07 February 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

My biggest piece of advice is that they seem slow.

If you can, see what builds you can make work w/ a STD 300 engine. I pretty much run a STD 300 in all my stalkers.

I confess I'm so used to seeing the 255 on middle boat and ppc rigs I didn't even think of it.

I personally run between 280 to 310 on my stalkers as I find them to be great charging hole punchers. With allies close behind at either flank ready to follow a Stalker serves its parody very well.

I'm on a tablet so someone please lend me the courtesy of posting the image of a stalker pulling the kool aid man through a building?

Far as Misery ballistic, I favor ac/5 to blend with my ppcs or lbx to make up for lack of mobility. Most use ac/10 to ac/20.