6 replies to this topic

[Paqu]

Here is the two options Iam currently thinking about:

2x AC5
https://dl.dropboxus...20Dog%20AC5.jpg

AC20
https://dl.dropboxus...0Dog%20AC20.jpg

How about the ultra versions of both? On AC5 the ultra would only give ~8% more dps while being able to jam. On AC20 the difference is bit more noticable ~17%, but it can still jam. And I believe they do jam quite often?

Also are the AC versions superior to the LB versions since I rarely see LB's on anyone?

The reason I ask is because I have very little experience with ballistic weapons besides Gauss. All my builds so far with all mechs has been with lasers, SRM's and Gauss.

On one variant of Mad Dog I already have the SRM6+artemis build with two medium lasers and its a beast as long as I get close. Very fun to use.

Second variant is with the SSRM6 with two medium lasers and... well its mostly really good against lights, but I feel kinda helpless against bigger targets due to the missile spread and long cooldown.

So on the third variant I was thinking about some SRM + ballistic mix which is again like the other two builds meant for brawling and thats where I could use some help with the build. I dont like LRM's at all so please dont suggest any of those builds.

Thanks in advance
Paqu

[ImperialKnight]

always use Ultra versions of Clan ACs, they have same weight and slots. If you don't double fire, they never jam.

LBXs spread damage like a shotgun, which is considered bad because you typically want damage to go where you want it to go. That's why you seldom if ever see them on IS or Clan.

clan ballistics are burst fire which is worse than IS ballistics. Not only do you have to stay on target longer, the damage doesn't always all go where you want it to go.

[Wintersdark]

knightsljx, on 21 February 2016 - 07:28 AM, said:

always use Ultra versions of Clan ACs, they have same weight and slots. If you don't double fire, they never jam.

LBXs spread damage like a shotgun, which is considered bad because you typically want damage to go where you want it to go. That's why you seldom if ever see them on IS or Clan.

clan ballistics are burst fire which is worse than IS ballistics. Not only do you have to stay on target longer, the damage doesn't always all go where you want it to go.

This, basically.

Regular Clan Autocannons should never be used (and actually shouldn't even exist; they are placeholders that never got removed). There is literally no disadvantage to taking the smaller Clan Ultra Autocannons: If you just hold the fire button down, they won't "doubletap" and thus have no chance to jam. They only doubletap if you tap on the fire button.

[Paqu]

knightsljx, on 21 February 2016 - 07:28 AM, said:

always use Ultra versions of Clan ACs, they have same weight and slots. If you don't double fire, they never jam.

LBXs spread damage like a shotgun, which is considered bad because you typically want damage to go where you want it to go. That's why you seldom if ever see them on IS or Clan.

clan ballistics are burst fire which is worse than IS ballistics. Not only do you have to stay on target longer, the damage doesn't always all go where you want it to go.

Thanks, I wasn't aware that your own actions has effect on the jamming. I thought it just randomly jams.

But back to the original question, which one would you prefer. 2xAC5 or AC20 to go along with the 6xSRM4? With AC5's I get about 20% better DPS (if comparing ultra versions of both), but Iam bit worried about the lowish amount of ammo I can carry with that build.

Wintersdark, on 21 February 2016 - 07:36 AM, said:

This, basically.

Regular Clan Autocannons should never be used (and actually shouldn't even exist; they are placeholders that never got removed). There is literally no disadvantage to taking the smaller Clan Ultra Autocannons: If you just hold the fire button down, they won't "doubletap" and thus have no chance to jam. They only doubletap if you tap on the fire button.

Just to be clear. So whenever I start shooting thats when they might jam? Or if I stop shooting and quickly press fire again thats when they might jam? Or does the jamming happen every time if pressed again too fast? And what is the time I need to wait before I can start shooting again to avoid jamming?

[Thunderchild]

I was playing 3XSRM6 + CUAC 20 on one side (usually right) while using other as shield.
Use the arm/s from MDD-C which will give you extra armor (20 ) and allow you to survive a bit more. You can even ditch 20 armor and get 0.5 tons extra for it.

Best combo I could use was CT from A or B due to extra turn rate so you can brawl easier, arms C (due to armor) and UAC switching if I wanna mount left side. MDD A torsos (7 structure which is nothing, but still can absorb some dmg and only you can mount 3 missles on).

[Wintersdark]

Paqu, on 21 February 2016 - 10:26 PM, said:

Thanks, I wasn't aware that your own actions has effect on the jamming. I thought it just randomly jams.

But back to the original question, which one would you prefer. 2xAC5 or AC20 to go along with the 6xSRM4? With AC5's I get about 20% better DPS (if comparing ultra versions of both), but Iam bit worried about the lowish amount of ammo I can carry with that build.

Heat is the real killer for that build. I'd take a single uac10. Lighter than either 2x5 or 20, 2x5's eat ammo very fast, and 10's get bonus ammo per ton. UAC10 gets you extended range that you're lacking with the 20 as well.

Also, while I really prefer srm4 to srm6 due to reduced spread, I'd consider running 4xSRM6 instead of 6xSRM4, because of Ghost heat. You suffer additional heat firing more than 4 SRM launchers at once. Same missile count, less heat generated.

As well, going to 4 launchers allows you to use the 3+1 launcher side torsos, which nets you a missile cooldown bonus quirk, allowing the SRM6's to fire faster.

Quote

Just to be clear. So whenever I start shooting thats when they might jam? Or if I stop shooting and quickly press fire again thats when they might jam? Or does the jamming happen every time if pressed again too fast? And what is the time I need to wait before I can start shooting again to avoid jamming?

If you release the fire button and press it again while the weapon is in cooldown (the time between shots, with the decreasing red bad shown for the weapon in the loadout display bottom right of the HUD) there's a chance to jam, or to fire again anyways even while in cooldown.

What this means is if you just press and hold fire, the weapon will fire just like a regular autocannon, with no chance of jamming.

[Paqu]

Wintersdark, on 22 February 2016 - 05:36 AM, said:

Heat is the real killer for that build. I'd take a single uac10. Lighter than either 2x5 or 20, 2x5's eat ammo very fast, and 10's get bonus ammo per ton. UAC10 gets you extended range that you're lacking with the 20 as well.

Also, while I really prefer srm4 to srm6 due to reduced spread, I'd consider running 4xSRM6 instead of 6xSRM4, because of Ghost heat. You suffer additional heat firing more than 4 SRM launchers at once. Same missile count, less heat generated.

As well, going to 4 launchers allows you to use the 3+1 launcher side torsos, which nets you a missile cooldown bonus quirk, allowing the SRM6's to fire faster.

I dont think the heat is really that much of an issue for me. 1,25-1,35 heat management has been the number with all my mechs so far and due to the Mad Dogs relatively low armor (at least on the side torsos which seem to get blown up easily) I cannot brawl with anyone for any extended period of time.

Also I have been dealing with ghost heat on my other two Mad Dog variants where one has 6xSRM6+artemis and other 6xSSRM6. I have set up my weapon groups so that I can avoid it. Three groups which fires two SRM's each, one group for chain fire and one group to fire them all at once for those moments where I know the ghost heat doesn't really matter and its more important to get as much damage in as possible.

Going 4xSRM6 with that other side torso does sound like a very nice idea. But like you said without the artemis the spread is quite nasty on SRM6. With SRM4 it feels like the artemis is not necessarily needed.

But if it turns out I run too hot or run out of ammo too fast I could also swap two SRM4's to SRM2 to free up couple tons of weight, remove the ghost heat while still keeping the accuracy on the missiles and not losing too much dps.

I'll keep the UAC10 option in mind as well if this turns out to be problematic otherwise.

However I guess I wont be really testing much of anything for a while since my cbill amount is currently -7,8 million.

Wintersdark, on 22 February 2016 - 05:36 AM, said:

If you release the fire button and press it again while the weapon is in cooldown (the time between shots, with the decreasing red bad shown for the weapon in the loadout display bottom right of the HUD) there's a chance to jam, or to fire again anyways even while in cooldown.

What this means is if you just press and hold fire, the weapon will fire just like a regular autocannon, with no chance of jamming.

Gotcha, thanks for the explanation. That actually sounds pretty cool mechanic to have on a brawler where I can play it safe if it seems Iam going to be exchanging shots with someone or take a risk to maybe finish him off by increasing the fire rate and hoping it wont jam. Plus for some quick peeking around a corner it will be pretty much always worth taking the risk.

Edited by Paqu, 22 February 2016 - 11:30 PM.