12 replies to this topic

[Kin3ticX]

The rough terrain and spawn separation isolates the attacker spawns from each other. Should the defenders push out under the right conditions, they may have an opportunity isolate 4 mechs. This type of spawn adjustment has been done for this map and others, but the attacker spawn needs it as well.

Something like this

Edited by Kin3ticX, 11 February 2016 - 03:04 AM.

[Willard Phule]

Good point, except that if you're on offense and the defense has pushed out into your spawns to farm you, you've got WAY bigger problems than simply not being able to consolidate forces to put up a defense. You're not supposed to be on defense in the first place.

Most of the time, when you're getting spawn farmed, it's because your team is significantly worse than the other one. It doesn't matter if you all dropped in the same spot, you'd still get farmed. Unless you're talking a premade against a premade, odds are fairly good your team didn't even make it inside for long before they just ran you over and came out to get you as you dropped.

Spawn points have very little to do with that. That's due to there not being any kind of matchmaker whatsoever in CW and the powers that be allowing new players to participate in "end game content" while piloting "beginning game mechs." Is what it is. Perhaps someone should go to the official MW:O feedback site (aka: Twitter) and let Russ know that this is why CW is dying.

[STEF_]

Willard Phule, on 11 February 2016 - 04:08 AM, said:

Good point, except that if you're on offense and the defense has pushed out into your spawns to farm you, you've got WAY bigger problems than simply not being able to consolidate forces to put up a defense. You're not supposed to be on defense in the first place.

Most of the time, when you're getting spawn farmed, it's because your team is significantly worse than the other one.

OR, your position is significantly worse than the other one.
Taking a good position is a skill, BUT there are times when PGI "decides" that one team must have ****** deploy (they don't even do it on purpose, btw... they don't play their own game).

There are times you can predict who wins on Alpine, just watching where the assault lance is at the first second of the match...

Anyway, back to topic, since "the best defence is to attack"... farming the isolated lance is the way to go, even in "defence"

[WANTED]

That is excessive for dropping mechs. If that was two full companies then yes it makes sense but 12 guys halving their force that far apart isn't logical or tactical. I agree with your new proposed Drop area.Reminds me that Boreal needs some adjustment but not on spawns but terrain.

[xX PUG Xx]

I agree in principal Kinetix but actually think the central spawn area in D7 would be adequate if widened to allow all three Lances to land there and the terrain North and South altered to allow easier traversing options for the attackers to shift their advance.

Spawning in the water would appear to offer little cover beyond the height of the cliffs and I believe the DropShops would drop below them, negating their ability to provide defensive fire.

I do agree that if an attacking team has been pushed this far back they are outmatched but since there is no "retreat" option available it would be nice to at least try to provide a sporting chance to the weaker team. Even a strong group of players can be cut to shreds in the current spawn configuration if the defenders push out on Counter Attack, 4 isolated 'Mechs are isolated regardless of skill, matchmaker, wind direction or time of the month.

[S T I N G S]

Kin3ticX, on 11 February 2016 - 03:01 AM, said:

The rough terrain and spawn separation isolates the attacker spawns from each other. Should the defenders push out under the right conditions, they may have an opportunity isolate 4 mechs. This type of spawn adjustment has been done for this map and others, but the attacker spawn needs it as well.

Something like this

Agree completely!

The spawn has it that if you are defending or holding and you push out you could easily spawn camp 1 lance with all 12 guys while the other guys from their team couldn't help them.

I have also seen teams send 6 mechs to the far spawns on each side so that they could farm 2 lances at a time with the middle lance having to decide which lance to help.

[nehebkau]

My question is why wouldn't someone be moving people out of the camped lance via the command window so that they drop in a non-camped zone?

While i would like to see the zones a little different -- its not really a big concern for me.

Edited by nehebkau, 11 February 2016 - 08:37 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

Willard Phule, on 11 February 2016 - 04:08 AM, said:

Good point, except that if you're on offense and the defense has pushed out into your spawns to farm you, you've got WAY bigger problems than simply not being able to consolidate forces to put up a defense. You're not supposed to be on defense in the first place.

Most of the time, when you're getting spawn farmed, it's because your team is significantly worse than the other one. It doesn't matter if you all dropped in the same spot, you'd still get farmed. Unless you're talking a premade against a premade, odds are fairly good your team didn't even make it inside for long before they just ran you over and came out to get you as you dropped.

Spawn points have very little to do with that. That's due to there not being any kind of matchmaker whatsoever in CW and the powers that be allowing new players to participate in "end game content" while piloting "beginning game mechs." Is what it is. Perhaps someone should go to the official MW:O feedback site (aka: Twitter) and let Russ know that this is why CW is dying.

Maybe it won't matter for the outcome most of the time, but lets at least spawn people together. They did it for the defender side after all.

xX PUG Xx, on 11 February 2016 - 06:50 AM, said:

I agree in principal Kinetix but actually think the central spawn area in D7 would be adequate if widened to allow all three Lances to land there and the terrain North and South altered to allow easier traversing options for the attackers to shift their advance.

works for me

[Necromantion]

Kin3ticX, on 11 February 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

works for me

Except for those dropship lasers then reaching most of the map lol

[Kin3ticX]

Necromantion, on 11 February 2016 - 12:08 PM, said:

Except for those dropship lasers then reaching most of the map lol

To make matters more complicated, the defenders do need access out there in case the attackers hide.

There is a gimmicky tonnage shock tactic ive seen done a few times where you bring 12 95-100 tonners and attempt to hide on attack for ~25 min. You then storm into the enemy and try to win the numbers/objective game before they have a chance to respawn and regroup(basically betting the enemy is all 60-65 tonners). Because of this, the defenders still need the option to attack. Best way to counter this is to scout it and work it down while you have plenty of time left. IMO, the dropships with 12 ERLL or whatever the hell it is on the comical side rather than a solution. Drop them all to Medium lasers again and go with a short invulnerability timer of like 3-5 seconds.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 11 February 2016 - 12:42 PM.

[Davegt27]

Haven’t seen any defenders take advantage of the spawn locations

I always wanted to do a reverse light rush and attack one of the far flung spawn points

But that would be a tactic and no one wants any tactics in CW

[Kin3ticX]

Davegt27, on 11 February 2016 - 05:34 PM, said:

Haven’t seen any defenders take advantage of the spawn locations

I always wanted to do a reverse light rush and attack one of the far flung spawn points

But that would be a tactic and no one wants any tactics in CW

Light rushing one of the spawns is one option

Another common possibility is rushing out with your damaged mechs after destroying a wave just to burn the mechs and get fresh ones, and then face damaged ones

If one of the teams is straight up going to win no matter what, that doesnt mean you have to spawn them isolated from each other to lose all the worse. Cbills and XP for ALL!

Edited by Kin3ticX, 11 February 2016 - 05:42 PM.

[Wing 0]

Kin3ticX, on 11 February 2016 - 03:01 AM, said:

The rough terrain and spawn separation isolates the attacker spawns from each other. Should the defenders push out under the right conditions, they may have an opportunity isolate 4 mechs. This type of spawn adjustment has been done for this map and others, but the attacker spawn needs it as well.

Something like this

for more drop ship camping? hahahaha. no. Not something to support there. There is an old saying. you have to adapt better tactics especially for a map like emerald taiga. Don't forget that vitric forge map needs a major change on the spawns in general so mechs without jets can go in and kill targets if needed. seen so much from that and its a sad thing for a map like vitric.

In all honesty KineticX, I am in 100% Disagreement . I think they need to expand emerald taiga a little bit on the attacker's side and make the walker longer like all other CW Maps, and heightened the hills around E5,F4 (base hills) from having its omega from being shot at from outside the base In hold games. Compare other maps and think about how short of a walk it is for attackers vs the other CW maps.