76 replies to this topic

[cSand]

TexAce, on 11 February 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

perhaps the ones who are winning all the time got so bored with this blandness, that they want some stuff to change and introduce new to this game?

Perhaps those who dont win all the time, dont want anything to change out of fear it would be even harder for them and they would suck even more?

well then this thread applies to neither and those people shouldn't be worried about what internet csand has to say

[cSand]

Tyler Valentine, on 11 February 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

I hear you cSand and I've thought the same thing myself many times but Bandito is right that you can't just lump everyone into the same group.

Yea I hear that too

[Thunder Child]

As one of the Bad Players, I will admit that a small portion of my complaint is butthurt. But to be fair, I don't mind losing in MWO as much as I do in WoT. Because in World of Tanks, you can get "matched" against a Tank two tiers higher, and have absolutely ZERO chance of doing anything to it. Just Bouncing shots, all match, at any angle, because "reasons".

I like that in MWO you can use any mech, and try to take on any other.

But complaints that I DO make, are usually for BTech Aesthetics reasons. Things that make the game feel more like Mechwarrior and less like CoD in Stompy Power Armor. Short of a Skill(Luck) shot to the head, a mech should not be able to "one shot" another mech. Sure, 3v1 should be brief and violent for the one, but the amount of Alphas happening in game is somewhat ridiculous.
In TT, Alphas were either an opening gambit, or a last resort. Here, they are business as usual. Now, I get it when people say that this ISN'T TT, because it is most definitely NOT. And it should never try to be, because it is a FPS. But, the Mechwarrior Heritage is one of being a Simulator, which MWO is certainly Not either.

There have been numerous convergence threads, numerous heat threads, numerous jumpjet threads, and numerous alpha threads. All of them are partially right, in that a little bit of each would make this game more immersive, more simulator like, and most importantly, more MECHWARRIOR.
BUT, Bads will still be Bad, and L33tz will still be L33t. That is not in question.

So, TL:DR, as a BAD Player, I call for these changes not because I want to take away from the L33t "SKillz", or because I am Butthurt, but because I want to play a game of Mechwarrior, not CoD: Modern Robot. If I wanted CoD, I'd play that instead.

[InspectorG]

El Bandito, on 11 February 2016 - 12:12 PM, said:

Not having met is not an excuse. His attempts (or lack there of) at balancing are all here for us to see. There were so many obvious balance issues he either ignored or delayed for months. And the LBX is still crap after 3 years.

TBH, not sure MWO CAN be balanced with lore intact. The proposition is a catch 22 that will butthurt many even if the best solution is found.

Paul, it seems, and this is just based on his work and ignorant of the conditions in which he works, is AVERAGE.

Yeah, i grade him average. MWO 'works' and has survived this far despite all the woes. Last mech standing game currently far as i know. Hawken/that other game i cant remember are not doing so hot i hear. This on top of giant robot games going out of vogue.

Now, im not making excuses for the man, i want my f*ckin Summoner fixed and have been waiting. Patiently.

But i know the player base want all the things for this franchise and porting a TT game with random mechanics into a FPS is gonna be hard.
Over-customization compounds it.
Added tech that mandated power creep because the previous publisher needed $.
Small player base.
Steep learning curve - anecdote: just started Dark Souls...MWO was harder to learn, IMO.

1/3rd the weapons dont do much. Scaling issues.

So all in all, Paul gets an average grade. Game works fairly well, lots of room for improvement for the basic stuff that was promised but, hey, its getting better inch by inch and we might have a worthwhile CW...'soon'.

If not, im still having fun and have no regrets over the $ i spent, because unlike unrealistic fanbois all i ever expected from this game was 'average'. Many average games out there are plenty fun.

*insert 'mediocre' instead of 'average' at own taste.

[Mystere]

InspectorG, on 11 February 2016 - 04:23 PM, said:

Steep learning curve - anecdote: just started Dark Souls...MWO was harder to learn, IMO.

Heretic, you will burn!

[InspectorG]

Mystere, on 11 February 2016 - 04:28 PM, said:

Heretic, you will burn!

Read my Sig. Me and fire go way back.

DS is puzzle solving, you know whats around the corner after the first time it kills you.

MWO, puglandia is pure random mayhem. You have no idea what lunacy can happen.

[Gideon Grey]

That's a rather drastic oversimplification.

If not, then let's just make each Mech explode when you first click on it. First team to position and tag each enemy Mech wins.

Make the games a lot quicker...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Thunder Child, on 11 February 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

Short of a Skill(Luck) shot to the head, a mech should not be able to "one shot" another mech.

What mech is able to one shot something larger than a light and is considered actually useful?

This has been used as an excuse over and over again, yet I do not know of a single good mech that can actually one shot something outside of a light (and that requires both good aim, and solid hit reg).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 11 February 2016 - 05:00 PM.

[Thunder Child]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 11 February 2016 - 04:58 PM, said:

What mech is able to one shot something larger than a light and is considered actually useful?

This has been used as an excuse over and over again, yet I do not know of a single good mech that can actually one shot something outside of a light (and that requires both good aim, and solid hit reg).

To be fair, my use of "One Shot" is a bit of a hyperbole.
In every other FPS, a One Shot is a Kill.
In MWO, a One Shot is more of a Severely Crippled Shot. With the very next shot being the Kill Shot in 3.25secs. A skilled MetaTimber Pilot can usually manage this. And even then, the reason many mechs can survive this is due to quirks.

My point is not that a skilled pilot should NOT be able to do this. A skilled pilot will find a way. My point is that the game should try to feel like Mechwarrior/Battletech as much as possible. And with the game getting closer and closer to "One-Shot" capabilities (Power Creep Alphas), it keeps getting closer to a typical FPS, and less of a Mechwarrior Sim.

That was the point of my post, only a small part of which you quoted for your counter-argument.

[TexAce]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 11 February 2016 - 04:58 PM, said:

What mech is able to one shot something larger than a light and is considered actually useful?

This has been used as an excuse over and over again, yet I do not know of a single good mech that can actually one shot something outside of a light (and that requires both good aim, and solid hit reg).

A direwolf can oneshot a Jägermech, since 90% of them are XL and the ST is not really hard to hit,especially from the back.

Edited by TexAce, 11 February 2016 - 05:21 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

TexAce, on 11 February 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:

A direwolf can oneshot a Jägermech, since 90% of them are XL and the ST is not really hard to hit,especially from the back.

Maybe if it could do around 100 damage in an alpha, yes. Whales also aren't the goto assault anymore either, so this example is less valid than it used to be.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 11 February 2016 - 05:23 PM.

[Troutmonkey]

High Alpha + Perfect Accuracy is the problem, regardless of the weapons used.
We can't remove high alpha because clans, and we don't want to remove accuracy because of skill, so how about we only interfere with accuracy to limit the accuracy of high alphas?

[Troutmonkey]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 11 February 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

Maybe if it could do around 100 damage in an alpha, yes. Whales also aren't the goto assault anymore either, so this example is less valid than it used to be.

Clams with 60,70,80 point alphas are still very prevalent and still very capable of one hitting mediums, lights, and slightly damaged heavies. It's really not fun at all to think you're doing okay with only slightly yellow armour, only for a timber to jump out from behind the corner, fire 6+ lasers perfectly into your side torso and kill you instantly.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Thunder Child, on 11 February 2016 - 05:18 PM, said:

That was the point of my post, only a small part of which you quoted for your counter-argument.

I quoted it because it is still hyperbole.

Some of the best mechs currently have less than a 50 point alpha, so I feel like this one shot argument is over played at this point. Not that I'm against a higher TTK for less fortunate mechs, because I still think iXL's should survive side torso destruction with STD engines getting direct internal buffs, but alphas really aren't one shot territory, at best they are two shot (and those are stupidly hot).

Troutmonkey, on 11 February 2016 - 05:31 PM, said:

Clams with 60,70,80 point alphas are still very prevalent and still very capable of one hitting mediums, lights, and slightly damaged heavies. It's really not fun at all to think you're doing okay with only slightly yellow armour, only for a timber to jump out from behind the corner, fire 6+ lasers perfectly into your side torso and kill you instantly.

They are prevalent because it is the only way they can compete with IS mechs that can fire off 33 points of damage with minimal exposure...otherwise you would see more manageable alphas, heat wise.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 11 February 2016 - 05:33 PM.

[Bonger Bob]

so many issues created out of bad balancing "attempts" by a certain person...................

we need a headstone for a grave marked "ghost heat" ......we all know who's corpse needs to fill the grave.

after that we need to STOP FOCUSING ON MORE MECH packs that only add to the mess and then actually balance the game properly conducive to lore. This mean the weapons AND the mechs themselves, why we keep getting more mechs that only expand the scope of the problem which only make it bigger to fix is beyond me.....but i guess PGI have to keep the cash flowing over fixing what they sold already.

you will always have players that crymoar in any game, but the volumes of them here with an issue that is never ending is very real for a reason, the balance does suck, as it has for a loooooooooong time.

[InspectorG]

Thunder Child, on 11 February 2016 - 05:18 PM, said:

My point is not that a skilled pilot should NOT be able to do this. A skilled pilot will find a way. My point is that the game should try to feel like Mechwarrior/Battletech as much as possible. And with the game getting closer and closer to "One-Shot" capabilities (Power Creep Alphas), it keeps getting closer to a typical FPS,

Yes...and no.
BT always had that looming bad roll that either granted the enemy a good crti(engine/cockpit) or 20+ damage piloting roll where the pilot botches, crashes, and is either gimped, ganged on, or dies outright.

If MWO had the crit system of BT, alphas wouldnt be the TTK killer.

[Revis Volek]

InspectorG, on 11 February 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

MWO, puglandia is pure random mayhem. You have no idea what lunacy can happen.

This, more true words have never been spoke here. lolz

Edited by Revis Volek, 11 February 2016 - 07:04 PM.

[oldradagast]

OP's post is fail.

It is a well understood fact that instant, perfect convergence lies at heart of all the major balances issues in this game. It drives weapon balance and nerfs, it is the cause of ghost heat, it indirectly created Hover Jets, it produced the Gauss rifle charge and nerfs, and so on. Heck, the extreme focus placed on mech's hitboxes and thus their level of viability is also caused by instant, perfect convergence since it is so easy to apply stupid amounts of pixel perfect damage to targets at long ranges that mechs with even "sub-par" hitboxes are instantly junk. And that doesn't even cover how the Battletech rule system, on which this game was founded, cannot function properly in a world with almost no damage scatter and mostly long range, sniper combat.

Convergence is not skill, and the vast majority of people who want to do away with instant perfect convergence are not "bads look for an edge over the skillz players." The Cone of Fire affects all equally, and if shooting a target with a pile of boated lasers for instant damage is the only "skill" you have, you're not actually skilled at the game. Is this change going to wreck your ability to move, position, communicate, scout, brawl, roll damage, and so on? If not, than stop whining.

It just blows my mind that people actually expect us to believe that adding a small amount of damage scatter and occasional misses at long range is going to "break the game" - as if pixel perfect laser-boating is the very definition of MWO.

[XX Sulla XX]

cSand, on 11 February 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

Convergence is the problem

No high alpha is the problem

No, lasers are

No, bad players are

No, groups are

No, quirks are

No, clams are

No, PPFLD is

No blah blah bah

People are ultimately whining about dying in this game, and of course putting the blame on everything and coming up with "solutions" to "fix" the game. It's a game of mech chess, matches are won/lost before the shots have even been fired 90% of the time due to POSITIONING, TEAM COHESION, and NOT BEING A DONKEY. Adding COF, or convergence, or w/e other ridiculous thing all boils down to "man, these guys are better at killing me than I am at killing them, so can we nerf the game please so my butt gets less hurt every 2nd match?" By all means add in all the arbitrary "player nerfs" you want, people are still gonna pwn you, and then you will cry for even more nerfs and so the cycle continues.

I'm all for tweaks to the game but I can see through the crap and realize what all the calls for "player nerfs" are really all about and I can tell the people clamouring for them, it's not gonna solve your problems

Exactly right. Most of the time I can get an idea of how even the game will be just by looking to see the pilots on each side. To many people looking to fix things that are not really problems.

[PocketYoda]

High alphas and paper armor really do make this game kind of un-enjoyable but i agree op what you say is also the truth of it..