50 replies to this topic

[5LeafClover]

#### UPDATE ####
First results summary now ready!
Second results summary now ready!
(See spoiler below)

So PGI have all the figures on weapon popularity and performance and "in theory" are able to make informed choices on weapon balance. However, in this thread, I'd like us to pool the perceptions of the player base and make use of the Wisdom of Crowds effect. Even if you question the accuracy of the method, it's still interesting to see how we collectively feel balance stands at the moment.

Here's what to do:
1. Rate each of the IS weapon groups listed below on a scale of -10 (Trash) to +10 (God Mode), via 0 (Optimal Balance)
2. Consider the weapon in the absence of any quirks (Not easy, since so many weapons are propped up with across the board quirks, but go with it)
3. Just add your numbers, not the opinions or rationale for your ratings. If you're deeply concerned for the balance of a specific weapon, go comment in one of the many threads dedicated to it.
4. The groupings are how I will present the data in the summary and are an attempt to rationalise the list a bit. I'd recommend you go with it, but if you absolutely have to, you can rate each separately (e.g. SRM2, SRM4 etc). Just be aware I will wrap your inputs into global averages.
5. Use your opinion based on today (1st Feb), e.g. don't pre-empt how effective flamers might become with announced buffs.
6. No clan weapons for now, because the list gets unwieldy. If the thread is a success, I'll repeat for clans in the future.
7. In addition to not rating clan weapons, consider just the balance between IS weapons, not how they compare overall (i.e. not versus clan+IS weapons combined).

I'll post my own ratings soon, but to hold off from pushing any agendas, I'd like a few other responses first. Simply copy the list and replace the X's with your ratings.

Remember:
-10 = Trash
0 = Perfect balance
+10 = Waaay OP

Gauss = XX
AC20 = XX
AC10 = XX
UAC5 = XX
AC5 = XX
AC2 = XX
LB10X = XX
LRM20,15 = XX
LRM10,5 = XX
SRM6,4,2 = XX
SSRM2 = XX
ERPPC = XX
PPC = XX
LPL = XX
ERLL, LL = XX
MPL, SPL = XX
ML,SL = XX
Flamer = XX
MG = XX


Results:

Spoiler

Total number of responses: 33
Summary date: 13th Feb 2016
Global average rating (For everything): -1.9

I've summarised the results in 2 columns. The first is the average rating per weapon. The second column dials out some of our collective pessimism by subtracting the global average rating (-1.9).



Qualitative Statements
Given so many of you rated individual weapons, where I's grouped them. Here are some comments on trends;

• LRM20 tends to be rated lower than LRM15
  
• SL tends to be rated lower than ML
  
• SPL tends to be rated lower than MPL
  
• LL and ERLL are rated broadly equal. Some prefer the range, others the coolness.

Edited by 5LeafClover, 13 February 2016 - 10:57 AM.

[Jman5]

Gauss = 0
AC20 = -2
AC10 = -2
UAC5 = -1
AC5 = -3
AC2 = -4
LB10X = -4
LRM20,15 = -3
LRM10,5 = -1
SRM6,4,2 = 0
SSRM2 = 0
ERPPC = -2
PPC = -1
LPL = 0
ERLL, LL = +2
MPL, SPL = 0
ML,SL = +2
Flamer = -10
MG = -4

A lot of this stuff gains 1 or 2 points depending on the weapon quirks. The AC/2 would get upgraded to -3 if it had a weapon cooldown module. Also you grouped some stuff up that I would rank differently. For example, I would give the LRM 20 a worse score than the LRM 15.

Edited by Jman5, 01 February 2016 - 01:01 PM.

[Wolfways]

Gauss = -1
AC20 = +1
AC10 = +2
UAC5 = -1
AC5 = +3
AC2 = +1
LB10X = -2
LRM20,15 = -5
LRM10,5 = -6
SRM6,4,2 = 0
SSRM2 = 0
ERPPC = -3
PPC = -2
LPL = -1
ERLL, LL = 0
MPL, SPL = 0
ML,SL = 0
Flamer = -8
MG = -6

[PholkLorr]

Gauss = -1
AC20 = -3
AC10 = -3
UAC5 = 0
AC5 = -3
AC2 = -4
LB10X = -4
LRM20,15 = -3
LRM10,5 = -2
SRM6,4,2 = -2
SSRM2 = -2
ERPPC = -4
PPC = -3
LPL = 0
ERLL, LL = 0
MPL, SPL = 0
ML,SL = 0
Flamer = -10
MG = -10

[Barantor]

Gauss = 3
AC20 = 6
AC10 = 5
UAC5 = 5
AC5 = 2
AC2 = -1
LB10X = 0
LRM20,15 = 1
LRM10,5 = 6
SRM6,4,2 = 4/4, 2/0
SSRM2 = 1
ERPPC = 1
PPC = 3
LPL = 7
ERLL, LL = 7
MPL, SPL = 7
ML,SL = 5
Flamer = -8
MG = -2

Edited by Barantor, 01 February 2016 - 02:21 PM.

[Tyler Valentine]

Gauss = 2
AC20 = 0
AC10 = 0
UAC5 = 3
AC5 = 0
AC2 = -4
LB10X = -4
LRM20,15 = 0
LRM10,5 = 0
SRM6,4,2 = -3
SSRM2 = -3
ERPPC = -5
PPC = -2
LPL = 4
ERLL, LL = 1
MPL, SPL = 5
ML,SL = 2
Flamer = -7
MG = -5

[Lorian Sunrider]

Gauss = -1
AC20 = 0
AC10 = -2
UAC5 = 2
AC5 = 0
AC2 = -3 (still way to damn hot)
LB10X = -5
LRM20,15 = -5
LRM10,5 = 0
SRM6,4,2 = 0 (as a light pilot, I like where they are at right now, actually worth taking again)
SSRM2 = -3
ERPPC = -5
PPC = -3
LPL = 3
ERLL, LL = 4 for ERLL on certain Quirked mechs, otherwise 0 ish for both
MPL, SPL = 0
ML = 0
SL = -4 (cannot judge it with the ML. ML is a staple workhorse. The IS SL is just crap all around, only to be put on light mechs that cannot fit ML or SPL's)
Flamer = -10
MG = -8

For fun, Clans

Gauss = 0 just for the slight tonnage difference
Non UAC AC's = -10 no reason what so ever to take them
UAC20 = -2 just doesn't feel as good as the IS AC 20
UAC10 = 0 on anything that isn't a Dire
UAC5 = 2
UAC2 = -3
LB10X = -4
LRM20,15 = 0
LRM10,5 = 2
SRM6,4,2 = 4 Way too strong on heavy clan mechs right now. Timbies rocking these in a cluster and MPL's shred you.
SSRM2,4,6 = 0 I don't enjoy them personally. Give me non lock on versions and let me aim.
ERPPC = -4
LPL = 5
ERLL = -4 way too hot, way to long on burn
MPL, SPL = 2
ML,SL = 0
Flamer = -10
MG = -8

Edited by Lorian Sunrider, 01 February 2016 - 02:30 PM.

[Gyrok]

Gauss = 5
AC20 = 4
AC10 = 2
UAC5 = 3
AC5 = 3
AC2 = -3
LB10X = -1
LRM20,15 = -4
LRM10,5 = -1
SRM6,4,2 = -1
SSRM2 = -2
ERPPC = -10
PPC = 0
LPL = 10
ERLL, LL = 10
MPL, SPL = 5
ML,SL = 5
Flamer = -9
MG = -10

Edited by Gyrok, 01 February 2016 - 02:40 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Gauss = +2 (still best weapon in the game)
AC20 = -1 ( for Ghost heat)
AC10 = -1 ( for velocity and difficulty @ range)
UAC5 = -2 ( RNG)
AC5 = -3
AC2 = -8 (facetime)
LB10X = -9 (spread and lack of sufficient crit)
LRM20 = -8 (spread, crits, compared to 4 LRM5, its total crap)
LRM15 = -4 (spread)
LRM10 = -2
LRM5 = +2 (ROF, spread is perfect for CT drilling)
SRM6 = -3 (spread, hitreg)
SRM4 = -1 (hitreg)
SRM2 = -2 (heat, hitreg)
S-SRM2 = -7 (RNG)
ERPPC = -7 (heat, hitreg)
PPC = -4 (hitreg, range)
LPL = +3
ERLL = -1 (duration)
LL = +1
MPL = 0
ML = 0/-1 (should be @ 3 heat)
SL = -3 (heat)
SPL = -2 (range)
Flamer = -99999999 (range, multiplier ramp)
MG = -9 (cone of fire, DPS, crit % vs SML)

Edited by Mister D, 01 February 2016 - 11:29 PM.

[Boulangerie]

Remember:
-10 = Trash
0 = Perfect balance
+10 = Waaay OP

Gauss = -1
AC20 = 0
AC10 = -2
UAC5 = 2
AC5 = -1
AC2 = -3
LB10X = -3
LRM20,15 = -4
LRM10,5 = 0
SRM6,4,2 = 1
SSRM2 = -3
ERPPC = -1
PPC = -1
LPL = 2
ERLL, LL = 1
MPL, SPL = 1
ML,SL = 1
Flamer = -9
MG = -5

[Wattila]

Gauss = 0
AC20 = -1
AC10 = -3
UAC5 = 2
AC5 = -2
AC2 = -6
LB10X = -6
LRM20,15 = -5
LRM10,5 = 1
SRM6,4,2 = 0
SSRM2 = -4
ERPPC = -5
PPC = -2
LPL = 6
ERLL, LL = 0
MPL, SPL = 0
ML,SL = 0
Flamer = -10
MG = -7

[LordNothing]

Gauss = 3
AC20 = 0
AC10 = 2
UAC5 = 0
AC5 = 0
AC2 = -5
LB10X = -7
LRM20,15 = -4
LRM10,5 = -4
SRM6,4,2 = 0
SSRM2 = -5
ERPPC = -2
PPC = -3
LPL = 0
ERLL, LL = -1
MPL, SPL = 0
ML,SL = -1
Flamer = -9
MG = -1

[Choppah]

Gauss = 7
AC20 = 5
AC10 = 1
UAC5 = 4
AC5 = 2
AC2 = -2
LB10X = -6
LRM20 = -9
LRM15 = -8
LRM10 = -9
LRM5 = -7
SRM6 = -2
SRM4 = -1
SRM2 = -3
SSRM2 = -4
ERPPC = -3
PPC = -2
LPL = 7
ERLL = -1
LL = 0
MPL = 0
SPL = -3
ML = 4
SL = -5
Flamer = -10
MG = -7

[Armored Yokai]

Gauss = -10
AC20 = 0
AC10 = 0
UAC5 = 0
AC5 = 0
AC2 = -8
LB10X = -8
LRM20,15 = 0
LRM10,5 = 0
SRM6,4,2 = 0
SSRM2 = 0
ERPPC = -10
PPC = -6
LPL = 0
ERLL, LL = 0
MPL, SPL = 0
ML,SL = 0
Flamer = -10
MG = -10

[TheSilken]

Gauss = -1
AC-20 = -2
AC-10 = -2
UAC-5 = -1
AC-5 = -2
AC-2 = -5
LB-10X = -3
LRM-20 = -3
LRM-15 = -2
LRM-10,-5 = -1
SRM-6,-4 = 0
SRM-2 = -2
SSRM-2 = -2
ERPPC = -3
PPC = -2
LPL = +1
ERLL = +2
LL = +1
MPL = 0
SPL = -1
ML = +1
SL = -1
Flamer = -10
MG = -8

Edited by TheSilken, 02 February 2016 - 07:44 AM.

[zagibu]

Gauss = don't use
AC20 = 0
AC10 = -2
UAC5 = don't use
AC5 = 0
AC2 = -3
LB10X = -3
LRM20,15 = -5, -3
LRM10,5 = -3, -4
SRM6,4,2 = -2, -2, -5
SSRM2 = -5
ERPPC = -3
PPC = -2
LPL = 2
ERLL, LL = 2, 1
MPL, SPL = -1, -3
ML,SL = 0, -2
Flamer = -10
MG = -7

[Monkey Lover]

Gauss = -2
AC20 = 0
AC10 = 0
UAC5 =2
AC5 = 2
AC2 = -3
LB10X = -5
LRM20,15 = -9,-6
LRM10,5 = -5,-2
SRM6,4,2 = 0,0,-2
SSRM2 = -5
ERPPC = -2
PPC = -3
LPL = 5
ERLL, LL = 2,0
MPL, SPL = 0,0
ML,SL = 0,0
Flamer = -8
MG = -7

Edited by Monkey Lover, 01 February 2016 - 11:23 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Gauss = 0

AC20 = -2
AC10 = -1
UAC5 = 0
AC5 = -1
AC2 = -4
LB-10X = -6
LRM20,15 = -6
LRM10,5 = -3
SRM6,4,2 = 0
SSRM2 = -5
ERPPC = -4
PPC = -2
LPL = 0
ERLL, LL = 0
MPL, SPL = -1
ML,SL = 0
Flamer = -10
MG = -6

Do you want us to consider balance only within IS weapons or do you want us to internally compare them to Clan weapons, too? I assumed we weren't comparing internally to Clans when making this. If you want to see the IS numbers if Clans are in-context, the spoiler is below.

Spoiler

Gauss = -1
AC20 = -3
AC10 = -2
UAC5 = 0
AC5 = -2
AC2 = -5
LB-10X = -8
LRM20,15 = -8
LRM10,5 = -4
SRM6,4,2 = -2
SSRM2 = -6
ERPPC = -5
PPC = -1
LPL = 0
ERLL, LL = -1
MPL, SPL = 0
ML,SL = -1
Flamer = -10
MG = -8

Also, I take issue with your combined groupings. I don't think MedLas and SmallLas should be paired, nor should ERLL or LL, or even the various SRMs. I mean, SmallLas look great on paper as brawler or striker weapons but you can never bring enough of them to be good in context of SRMs, SPL, C-SPL or C-ERSL.

[5LeafClover]

Yeonne Greene, on 01 February 2016 - 05:37 PM, said:

Do you want us to consider balance only within IS weapons or do you want us to internally compare them to Clan weapons, too? I assumed we weren't comparing internally to Clans when making this. If you want to see the IS numbers if Clans are in-context, the spoiler is below.

Also, I take issue with your combined groupings. I don't think MedLas and SmallLas should be paired, nor should ERLL or LL, or even the various SRMs. I mean, SmallLas look great on paper as brawler or striker weapons but you can never bring enough of them to be good in context of SRMs, SPL, C-SPL or C-ERSL.

Good question. Yes, excluding how they balance with clans overall.

Edited by 5LeafClover, 01 February 2016 - 11:59 PM.

[5LeafClover]

Gauss = -4
AC20 = 0
AC10 = 0
UAC5 = +3
AC5 = +1
AC2 = -1
LB10X = -4
LRM20,15 = -3
LRM10,5 = -1
SRM6,4,2 = 0
SSRM2 = -2
ERPPC = -3
PPC = -3
LPL = +5
ERLL, LL = +5
MPL, SPL = +2
ML,SL = 0
Flamer = -10
MG = -7