63 replies to this topic

[MeiSooHaityu]

This is mostly a hypothetical question about how a Hollander would be treated if it was included in MWO, and would you even want it included (now that the timeline stretching used with the Kodiak would cover a Hollander release: 3054, 3058, 3061)?

The reason that the Hollander is an issue, is that it is one of those few models that jumps up in tonnage from model to model (35 to 45 tons). Other mechs like the Marauder I vs II and Catapult I vs II do this as well, but plenty of the original versions have models to pick from and are already in the game in their original form.

The question would be, would you like (or be willing to see) the Hollander released as technically a Hollander II and the original loadouts (models BZK-3F and BZK-G1) be adapted in MWO for a II platform (such as the BZK-F5)?

The Hollander is specifically built around a Gauss Rifle in most iterations and anybody who has tried to shoehorn a gauss rifle in a 35 ton light (such as a Raven) knows this is rather obscenely slow for a light (probably like my much loved Cougar :/) or ammo limited. Combine this with a Gauss hand grenade in a side torso and the high alphas of the MWO game, and it could be pretty DOA unless mounting an Ultra 5 or A/C2 which kind of defeats the purpose of the chassis just to achieve a faster speed.

Other games like MechCommander realized this and that is why the 45 ton Hollander II was used (I thought I read it was possibly made for that game and adapted to lore, but can not find a source to confirm).

45 tons is far from ideal anyway with such a large weapon system, but at least it stands more of a chance.

So, would a Hollander II be an ok addition to MWO even if it had to convert the earlier chassis to 45 tons? Or maybe release the original regardless and make a fake variant to round out the 3 chassis under the Hollander I banner.

Or heck, just ignore it all together. it would be a shame for such a uniquely designed chassis...




What does everyone think?

[Johnny Z]

I am not sure about the topic but the Hollander is the perfect example why "quirks" were a great addition to the game.

[LegendaryArticuno]

I would put a LPL in that RT and load up the rest with MPL and dual heats.

[Lorian Sunrider]

Yes, just make it a 45 ton mech.

One of the few remaining tech appropriate IS mechs missing from MechCommander if I recall correctly.

[process]

Why not both? If the Urbanmech can work, surely either Hollander can.

[LegendaryArticuno]

^ Bushwacker was in Gold i think

[El Bandito]

50% Gauss cooldown rate + 100% Gauss ammo quirk + 20 armor to RT. There you go--35 tons of kickass. More, if needed.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 February 2016 - 08:42 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Johnny Z, on 08 February 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

I am not sure about the topic but the Hollander is the perfect example why "quirks" were a great addition to the game.

I know, kind of long winded. The original thread might not be worded to the point like it should.

Anyway, think of it this way...

Basically, if the Hollander was added to MWO, would it be better to skip the 35 ton Hollander and go right to the 45 ton Hollander II. It would require two made up variants that could in reality be the 35 ton Hollander models, just adapted to a 45 ton platform and possibly a bit of hard point inflation worthy of a 45 ton over s 35 ton.

Is that worth doing (or ok to do)? Or, should it be released as a 35 ton with 1 made up 35 ton variant? Or, should it be ignored all together due to the compromises to run it as intended?

El Bandito, on 08 February 2016 - 08:38 AM, said:

50% Gauss cooldown rate + 100% Gauss ammo quirk + 20 armor to RT. There you go--35 tons of kickass.

And hopefully very small *crosses fingers*

process, on 08 February 2016 - 08:34 AM, said:

Why not both? If the Urbanmech can work, surely either Hollander can.

Hollander with 360° torso twist

[process]

Well I'm not gonna say no.

[Coralld]

El Bandito, on 08 February 2016 - 08:38 AM, said:

50% Gauss cooldown rate + 100% Gauss ammo quirk + 20 armor to RT. There you go--35 tons of kickass. More, if needed.

I have my wallet at the ready if that were the case. I always liked the Hollander. I would name mine, Pinocchio.

[VirtualSmitty]

MeiSooHaityu, on 08 February 2016 - 08:25 AM, said:

This is mostly a hypothetical question about how a Hollander would be treated if it was included in MWO, and would you even want it included (now that the timeline stretching used with the Kodiak would cover a Hollander release: 3054, 3058, 3061)?

The reason that the Hollander is an issue, is that it is one of those few models that jumps up in tonnage from model to model (35 to 45 tons). Other mechs like the Marauder I vs II and Catapult I vs II do this as well, but plenty of the original versions have models to pick from and are already in the game in their original form.

The question would be, would you like (or be willing to see) the Hollander released as technically a Hollander II and the original loadouts (models BZK-3F and BZK-G1) be adapted in MWO for a II platform (such as the BZK-F5)?

The Hollander is specifically built around a Gauss Rifle in most iterations and anybody who has tried to shoehorn a gauss rifle in a 35 ton light (such as a Raven) knows this is rather obscenely slow for a light (probably like my much loved Cougar :/) or ammo limited. Combine this with a Gauss hand grenade in a side torso and the high alphas of the MWO game, and it could be pretty DOA unless mounting an Ultra 5 or A/C2 which kind of defeats the purpose of the chassis just to achieve a faster speed.

Other games like MechCommander realized this and that is why the 45 ton Hollander II was used (I thought I read it was possibly made for that game and adapted to lore, but can not find a source to confirm).

45 tons is far from ideal anyway with such a large weapon system, but at least it stands more of a chance.

So, would a Hollander II be an ok addition to MWO even if it had to convert the earlier chassis to 45 tons? Or maybe release the original regardless and make a fake variant to round out the 3 chassis under the Hollander I banner.

Or heck, just ignore it all together. it would be a shame for such a uniquely designed chassis...




What does everyone think?

That fist pump....

[MeiSooHaityu]

Precentor Martial Jarcaddy, on 08 February 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

That fist pump....

It's like the mechanized version of Success Kid!

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 08 February 2016 - 09:01 AM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

If PGI does the Hollander, they should just embrace reasonableness and go with the Hollander II version.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 08 February 2016 - 08:38 AM, said:

50% Gauss cooldown rate + 100% Gauss ammo quirk + 20 armor to RT. There you go--35 tons of kickass. More, if needed.

+20 armor probably wouldn't be sufficient if the weapon were made as utterly gigantic as the classic artwork. It would be bigger than almost the rest of its entire body...

In general, do you really think that this community will tolerate weapon quirks of that magnitude?

Mechs like the Huginn, Grid Iron, and Dragon show us that the answer is "no." If my memory serves, weren't you one of the people who didn't like the quirks of those mechs?

[MeiSooHaityu]

FupDup, on 08 February 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:

+20 armor probably wouldn't be sufficient if the weapon were made as utterly gigantic as the classic artwork. It would be bigger than almost the rest of its entire body...

In general, do you really think that this community will tolerate weapon quirks of that magnitude?

Mechs like the Huginn, Grid Iron, and Dragon show us that the answer is "no." If my memory serves, weren't you one of the people who didn't like the quirks of those mechs?

That's kind of why I'm thinking it would be best to bump it to 45 tons. It would still need quirks, but not as wild of ones. Just, if they do, please make it smaller than the Vindicator or it won't stand a chance :/

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 08 February 2016 - 09:14 AM.

[Appogee]

The last thing we need in this game is more Mechs.

The first thing we need in this game is more game.

[Kristian Radoulov]

I would love to see the Hollander serving as a glass canon, but it will run into the same problems that the Shadowcat does while trying to tote a gauss rifle (Can either have ammo, back-up weapons or armor, but only two at a time).

Edited by Kristian Radoulov, 08 February 2016 - 09:47 AM.

[Tavious Grimm]

Gonna have to agree with Appogee here. I am all for new mechs to be added to the game. There are several that I would love to see. In all fairness I am done with PGI just adding more mechs without adding more stuff. They've had a successful response to both the Marauder and the Warhammer. I'll pretty sure they same with the upcoming Rifleman and certainly with the Kodiak. Their coffers are lined with hard earned cash and so they really need to buckle down and get us some new maps, new game modes and get off their duff and get FW Beta 3 going.

[0bsidion]

Appogee, on 08 February 2016 - 09:44 AM, said:

The last thing we need in this game is more Mechs.

The first thing we need in this game is more game.

While I agree this game could stand to be less shallow, more mechs are not what's stopping that from happening, as the people that work on the mechs are not the same people that develop other areas of the game.

Plus, sales from new mechs are what help other areas of the game happen by funding their production and development, so saying no to more mechs is like your boss saying "I'd like you to work harder and maybe do the janitor's job as well but I'm going to stop paying you". So if that sounds cool to you, I'd like you to come work for me.

[Gas Guzzler]

El Bandito, on 08 February 2016 - 08:38 AM, said:

50% Gauss cooldown rate + 100% Gauss ammo quirk + 20 armor to RT. There you go--35 tons of kickass. More, if needed.

OP IS QUIRKS!