23 replies to this topic

[Urbie GPT]

Right now ppl doesn't seemed to equip with AMS (especially in higher tier). My personal feeling is that it's too heavy and bulky (AMS plus ammo) to be equipped. You need both extra weight and slots to equip that system, which runs out ammo time to time.

So what about LAMS? It enters production with Clan in 3048, and the game is 3051 now...

LAMS introduction:
http://www.sarna.net...-Missile_System

Edited by UnnamedBOY, 15 February 2016 - 02:23 PM.

[Jetdrag]

At first I thought you meant land air mechs.

[Metus regem]

Jetdrag, on 15 February 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

At first I thought you meant land air mechs.

And I would be all for those... love me these things:

[Thunder Child]

Read the title and thought, LAMs, not L AMS.

So, regarding LAMS, I'm all for it. But anyone thinking it's going to be lighter or more efficient than the Ballistic AMS, it's not quite that simple.

The IS version is 1.5 tons, and takes two critical slots, generating 7 heat per salvo intercepted. Very quickly, that'll add up to a lot of heat.
The Clan version is 1 ton, and takes up one critical slot, generating 5 heat per salvo intercepted.

How the heat gen translates into MWO will make or break the system, but really, I can see LAMS being used on Ballistic builds that have heat efficiency, but no space, and standard AMS being used on Energy builds that have space, but no efficiency.

Of course, that's if they get used at all, which is highly doubtful, as most people prefer more Damage Output, rather than Damage Mitigation against a weapon that is rarely effective.

[Urbie GPT]

Thunder Child, on 15 February 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:

Read the title and thought, LAMs, not L AMS.

So, regarding LAMS, I'm all for it. But anyone thinking it's going to be lighter or more efficient than the Ballistic AMS, it's not quite that simple.

The IS version is 1.5 tons, and takes two critical slots, generating 7 heat per salvo intercepted. Very quickly, that'll add up to a lot of heat.
The Clan version is 1 ton, and takes up one critical slot, generating 5 heat per salvo intercepted.

How the heat gen translates into MWO will make or break the system, but really, I can see LAMS being used on Ballistic builds that have heat efficiency, but no space, and standard AMS being used on Energy builds that have space, but no efficiency.

Of course, that's if they get used at all, which is highly doubtful, as most people prefer more Damage Output, rather than Damage Mitigation against a weapon that is rarely effective.

I put the title 'LAMS' and it changed by their forum layout...I hope I could change that. Another example of PGI lol.

I remembered Russ said he would like to encourage the use of AMS, but I do think we should also encourage the diversity as well.

Edited by UnnamedBOY, 15 February 2016 - 02:56 PM.

[Metus regem]

UnnamedBOY, on 15 February 2016 - 02:55 PM, said:

I put the title 'LAMS' and it changed by their forum layout...I hope I could change that. Another example of PGI lol.

I remembered Russ said he would like to encourage the use of AMS, but I do think we should also encourage the diversity as well.

I think the best way to encourage the usage of AMS would be to reward it, either through XP or C-bills. Me, I try to squeeze it in in most of my builds, as it is useful, more useful at lower tier games, as LRM's are more common there than at higher tiers, as LRMS are only good against the lazy, stupid or noob. Once you know how to pilot effectively, LRM's become only a fraction as useful as they are against lower skilled pilots.

[Mole]

If AMS actually felt effective in even the slightest way at protecting me from missiles I'd equip it. But it doesn't. I'd rather use that tonnage for another heat sink that will actually have an impact on my mech's performance. Couple what I just said with the fact that through use of radar deprivation and simply utilizing cover I rarely get hit by LRMs anyway, I see no reason to run around sporting an AMS. Making them lighter and non-ammunition dependent will not change the fact that AMS is just not worth having.

[Novakaine]

For all the anti-AMS crowd i'd like to say........

[Anyone00]

Laser anti-missile systems sounds good as long as I can potentially cause a mech to shut down by firing lrms over their head (if they forget about the ams toggle key).

[Triordinant]

Anyone00, on 15 February 2016 - 05:28 PM, said:

Laser anti-missile systems sounds good as long as I can potentially cause a mech to shut down by firing lrms over their head (if they forget about the ams toggle key).

Just think of the poor sap with 3x laser AMS. Don't Streak SRMs trigger AMS as well?

[Alan Davion]

UnnamedBOY, on 15 February 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

Right now ppl doesn't seemed to equip with AMS (especially in higher tier). My personal feeling is that it's too heavy and bulky (AMS plus ammo) to be equipped. You need both extra weight and slots to equip that system, which runs out ammo time to time.

So what about LAMS? It enters production with Clan in 3048, and the game is 3051 now...

LAMS introduction:
http://www.sarna.net...-Missile_System

Frankly I'm reasonably sure the reason no one uses AMS in the higher tiers is because no one uses LRMs in the higher tiers, as AMS will only intercept LRM fire from what I understand.

In order for people to equip AMS in the higher tiers, people in the higher tiers would need to make much heavier use of LRMs than they do now, if they use them at all, and in order for people in the higher tiers to be made to want to use LRMs, they would have to be buffed significantly in someway, as there are simply too many counters to them... ECM/Radar Dep/etc.

The entire LRM range is pretty much useless outside of tier 4-5, at least as far as I've seen.

[Zoid]

Thunder Child, on 15 February 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:

Read the title and thought, LAMs, not L AMS.

So, regarding LAMS, I'm all for it. But anyone thinking it's going to be lighter or more efficient than the Ballistic AMS, it's not quite that simple.

The IS version is 1.5 tons, and takes two critical slots, generating 7 heat per salvo intercepted. Very quickly, that'll add up to a lot of heat.
The Clan version is 1 ton, and takes up one critical slot, generating 5 heat per salvo intercepted.

How the heat gen translates into MWO will make or break the system, but really, I can see LAMS being used on Ballistic builds that have heat efficiency, but no space, and standard AMS being used on Energy builds that have space, but no efficiency.

Of course, that's if they get used at all, which is highly doubtful, as most people prefer more Damage Output, rather than Damage Mitigation against a weapon that is rarely effective.

I think people would take it a lot more often because it stays effective for a long time. The biggest reason I don't take AMS is because even with two tons of ammo, it still runs out pretty fast when you actually need it. Take only one ton and if there's a decent number of LRMs it's done before you even realize it. The heat isn't bad when you consider that you're probably going to be taking cover when it's going off anyway.

Alan Davion, on 15 February 2016 - 05:35 PM, said:

Frankly I'm reasonably sure the reason no one uses AMS in the higher tiers is because no one uses LRMs in the higher tiers, as AMS will only intercept LRM fire from what I understand.

In order for people to equip AMS in the higher tiers, people in the higher tiers would need to make much heavier use of LRMs than they do now, if they use them at all, and in order for people in the higher tiers to be made to want to use LRMs, they would have to be buffed significantly in someway, as there are simply too many counters to them... ECM/Radar Dep/etc.

The entire LRM range is pretty much useless outside of tier 4-5, at least as far as I've seen.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm playing the same game as some of you. I see pure LRM boats all the time and I'm tier 1.

Edited by Zoid, 15 February 2016 - 06:02 PM.

[Khobai]

LAMS is in some ways worse than AMS, namely the fact it generates heat

LAMS probably needs a slower rate of fire or worse range to balance it against ammo using AMS

[Pjwned]

UnnamedBOY, on 15 February 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

Right now ppl doesn't seemed to equip with AMS (especially in higher tier). My personal feeling is that it's too heavy and bulky (AMS plus ammo) to be equipped. You need both extra weight and slots to equip that system, which runs out ammo time to time.

Too heavy and bulky?! AMS itself is 0.5 tons and 1 ton of ammo gives you 2,000 rounds which will usually last a while unless you're facing a very LRM heavy team, and both of those are only 2 slots total.

I think people are too used to comparing AMS to ECM, which is a problem because ECM is extremely unbalanced.

Mole, on 15 February 2016 - 03:45 PM, said:

If AMS actually felt effective in even the slightest way at protecting me from missiles I'd equip it. But it doesn't. I'd rather use that tonnage for another heat sink that will actually have an impact on my mech's performance. Couple what I just said with the fact that through use of radar deprivation and simply utilizing cover I rarely get hit by LRMs anyway, I see no reason to run around sporting an AMS. Making them lighter and non-ammunition dependent will not change the fact that AMS is just not worth having.

The more people that bring AMS the more effective it is when you group up.

If you're getting bombarded by LRMs constantly though, then yeah AMS isn't going to do much because that means you're doing something wrong.

Edited by Pjwned, 15 February 2016 - 06:22 PM.

[Goose]

No; And **** you for asking.

[Jackal Noble]

[MauttyKoray]

With the flamer change this could actually be a decent idea. The LAMS generates heat so it would be risk/reward over a standard AMS.

[The Mecha Streisand]

I say let's do it. L-AMS would be cool. You CAN toggle AMS on/off, after all.

[El Bandito]

Alan Davion, on 15 February 2016 - 05:35 PM, said:

Frankly I'm reasonably sure the reason no one uses AMS in the higher tiers is because no one uses LRMs in the higher tiers, as AMS will only intercept LRM fire from what I understand.

In order for people to equip AMS in the higher tiers, people in the higher tiers would need to make much heavier use of LRMs than they do now, if they use them at all, and in order for people in the higher tiers to be made to want to use LRMs, they would have to be buffed significantly in someway, as there are simply too many counters to them... ECM/Radar Dep/etc.

The entire LRM range is pretty much useless outside of tier 4-5, at least as far as I've seen.

That's where you are wrong. I was leveling LRM Kintaros past week and saw plenty of AMS being used to defend against it. At least 2-3 mechs per team were using AMS constantly.

Khobai, on 15 February 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:

LAMS is in some ways worse than AMS, namely the fact it generates heat

LAMS probably needs a slower rate of fire or worse range to balance it against ammo using AMS

Basically LAMS will be superior to regular AMS when one is staying away from the enemy and sniping, while regular AMS will be superior to LAMS when one is brawling with the enemy and the enemy is supported by LRMs. Especially if the enemy has SRMs as well.

Regular AMS requires ammo, while LAMS will require extra heatsinks. PGI's decision on the heat value will decide just how efficient (or not) LAMS will be.

Edited by El Bandito, 15 February 2016 - 06:51 PM.

[Johnny Z]

El Bandito, on 15 February 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

That's where you are wrong. I was leveling LRM Kintaros past week and saw plenty of AMS being used to defend against it. At least 2-3 mechs per team were using AMS constantly.




Basically LAMS will be superior to regular AMS when one is staying away from the enemy and sniping, while regular AMS will be superior to LAMs when one is brawling with the enemy and the enemy is supported by LRMs. Especially if the enemy has SRMs as well.

Yep Its smart to take AMS on heavy and assault mechs. The weight and space are minimal and they are the toughest to get out of the way of incoming missiles.

Basically Clan mechs are the only ones that will use missiles at higher tiers because of being half weight and they basically never use AMS because of their speed. Strangely I still see Omni mech pilot crying for easy mode back even with the obvious disparity in so many areas remaining.

Edited by Johnny Z, 15 February 2016 - 06:53 PM.