65 replies to this topic

[MechPorn]

Oh Yeah!!!!!

[Shalmyan Moonsong]

Yea but Studio Nue did the IIC's and the reseen that everyone seems to hate so much, it seems to be give us the orginals that we grew up playing wioth in the 80's or we are going to hate them, but sadly that is never going to happen Harmony Gold has the rights to those images and I think are indeed holding on to them out of sheer spite, or the belief they can get more money out of them or get what they feel they are owed, which is not going to happen.

I like what PGI is doing, and saying F-off to Harmony Gold and using mechs that are purly owned by the battletech francise, we would all like to see our old favs from the 80's be in game, I just don't think from all the bad blood and Harmony Gold's death grip on these images we will EVER see it happen, so you can answer your question, you can wish, unless Harmony Gold files for bankrupty and Wizkids buys them out it is never going to happen, they will keep that till they are no more just out of spite.

[Ravewolf]

Damion Sparhawk, on 13 July 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

they did in fact, settle out of court, we just don't know what the settlement entailed however we do know that HG continues to file C&D should any of the unseen show their happy faces

How confusing. Oh well, at least we still have the Urbanmech! HG can't take that away.

[Shalmyan Moonsong]

We don't know the details of the Out of Court Settlement, that is ture, but we do know from the C&D's orders that Harmony Gold still has, by international copyright court every right to those images in north america, and that has been upheld a number of times, so to use those images you have to pay Harmnoy gold what they want. Harmony Gold has a major legit international contract in place, and no one, can use those images without thier say so, or there will be a lawsuit, and history has told us, Harmony Gold will win.

[Damion Sparhawk]

TB Xiomburg, on 13 July 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

Oh Yeah!!!!!

Shalmyan Moonsong, on 13 July 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

We don't know the details of the Out of Court Settlement, that is ture, but we do know from the C&D's orders that Harmony Gold still has, by international copyright court every right to those images in north america, and that has been upheld a number of times, so to use those images you have to pay Harmnoy gold what they want. Harmony Gold has a major legit international contract in place, and no one, can use those images without thier say so, or there will be a lawsuit, and history has told us, Harmony Gold will win.

or at least, that nobody is willing to waste the time and money to work things out with HG

[Shalmyan Moonsong]

I think HG just wants to much for some 30 year old pics, but I think they want to charge anything with the name Battletech/Mechwarior/FASA/Wizkids even more just to be D***'s becuase they can, becuase they know they Battletech Markets is all that is left to be willing to pay, and they feel they can get some old money back that they lost.

Edited by Shalmyan Moonsong, 13 July 2012 - 07:52 PM.

[Dragonstrike]

Warhammer

[Derek Flynn]

Shalmyan Moonsong, on 13 July 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

@Hunson Abadeer

Umm the Battlemaster was not from, in or had anything to do with Robotech or Harmony Gold, It came from a Anime Series Called Dougram, which was kinda of pre-coursor to Heavy gear, but the Battlemaster was never EVER in Robotech and Harmony Gold had nothing to do with that mech becoming unseen, but it became unseen when lawsuits started coming in from other companies besides Harmony Gold, that FASA also extended thier use of these desings well after the right of thier contracts.

I'm a huge Battletech fan and a fan of the unseen and thier place in history, the biggiest problem was once FASA's contacts, with Harmony Gold, Dougram,and Crusher Joe were done, they continued to use the images knowingly for years after thier rights to those images had ended, and I want to say the people behind Crusher Joe (who own the images of the Locust, and many areo-space fighters and tanks) issied the first cease and desist order, Then Harmony Gold (Pheinox Hawk, Stinger, Wasp, Archer, Muraduer, Warhammer, Rifleman, Ostol, Longbow, Crusader) and Dougram (Griffin, Battlemaster, Scorpian, Thunderbolt, Wolverine, Goliath, Shadowhawk) fallowed suit. Has Harmony Gold made the biggest stink of it, yes, was FASA in the wrong and knew they were in the wrong and profited greatly from these images, YES, FASA sure as hell was not the victem in these suits, Harmony Gold and Dougram protected thier designs that FASA used for a good 10 years without paying royalties, and then got mad when Harmony Gold came asking for thier money.

and in regards to someone else who posted after I made this post, Harmony gold did not own the designs Studio Nue did, but they gave all US distribution rights to ALL thier designs and properties to Harmony Gold, whom they expected to use those rights, images and products to make money and in the US and send Studio Nue thier cut back to japan, it was Studio Nue's way of being in the US market without ever having to leave japan, and rake in the money from thier work.

Just to compound issues, several of the Dougram designs were marketed as models under the Robotech name. Shadow Hawk, Wolverine, Griffin, Goliath and Thunderbolt are ones that I remember since either a friend of mine or myself had several of them. They were sold as diorama pieces back in the 80's if memory serves. There have been lots of issues over the years about these designs and the part that's really baffling to me is I thought I'd heard that Harmony Gold had actually gone bankrupt at one point. Despite all the problems they've created for the BT/MW franchise over the years with the legalities, I have to confess, I still have a place in my heart for Harmony Gold as Robotech was what really got me interested in Japanese Anime all those years ago. I still own both the American and the Japanese version of all 3 series on DVD. But, that doesn't mean I wasn't disappointed with H.G. for the way they handled things. Maybe if they'd been a little more willing to work with FASA and a little less "litigation happy", perhaps a deal could've been reached between the 2 companies that would've been mutually beneficial to both and maybe we'd be getting what appear to be, based on the many threads here, some of the most popular designs in the game. Instead, we'll be getting other designs to play and so far what I've seen of the redesigns, there are going to be some pretty awesome Mechs to blow S*** up with. So, what it all boils down to is this, am I disappointed the Unseen probably won't be making an appearance? I suppose, a bit. Am I going to cry about it? Nope.

[Unicorn1]

The reason that the issue drives such passion is that for many players the mechs that they started the game with are those iconic designs.

I started with the original box set (then named Battledroids) and the Stinger, Wasp, Locust, Phoenix Hawk, Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Wolverine, Rifleman, Crusader, Archer, Warhammer and Marauder are the epitome of Battletechs roots, I played all of them and have a soft spot for them.

To those people who say there are other mechs, so get over these designs, it's like telling a sports fan that they should dump their favourite team, that they have supported for a quarter of a century or more, simply because they aren't winning.

Most true sports fans would, if they were polite, tell you to drop dead. The less polite, more passionate ones would probably deck you.

The unseen excite similar levels of passion amongst original board game players.

Unicorn

Edited by Unicorn1, 14 July 2012 - 04:23 AM.

[ThunderThumb]

i just wish they could include every mech from the TT in this game. would be EPIC

[Ace Kaller]

ThunderThumb, on 14 July 2012 - 04:49 AM, said:

i just wish they could include every mech from the TT in this game. would be EPIC

I, and probably every TT Battletech gamer who started playing the game in the 80's (Yes, I was about 5 or 6 when I first discovered the amazing Battletech universe) would love to see the classics. I still open up my original TRO:3025 and TRO 3050 (the first printing, unrevised, non-upgrade version) on occasion. But I long ago accepted that the Unseen only exist in my TT gaming universe and my hoarde of Ral Partha minis. For those of you not familiar entirely with the BT universe, this is the main reason why I think they scrapped the 3020's-era reboot idea and set THIS game in 3049. A game set in the 4th Succession Wars era (3025 tech) simply wouldn't have hardly any mechs, since almost all of those designs are Unseen. 3049 Gives plenty of freedom, and also sets things in the hayday (in terms of popularity at least) of the Btech universe.

We probably won't ever see the Reseen mechs, since they are Toaster-era mechs from the 3060's, and since 1 year of game time equals one year of real time, it would be over a decade before they get turned into Wobblie-era abominations with rockets and other garbage strapped onto them.

Death to Toasters! Death to Appolyon! Death to the Protege! and Death to The Master!

[Moffmalthus]

I've also played Battletech since it was Battledriods in 1985. Another issue with the name Battledriods was that Lucas was going to sue over the use of the word driod so the name was changed to Battletech (I think Battletech sounds much better anyway). This whole unseen thing has been going on for so long and I also love the original work but I've learned to let it go and move on. I think we all need too because this will never be resolved in a satisfactory way for any of us. Its just beating your head against a wall to no avail.

Edited by Moffmalthus, 14 July 2012 - 05:21 AM.

[Belorion]

moar unseen...

[Baron Kreight]

Quote

Hello,

Yes, all of the previously-identified Unseen are, once again, Unseen. We apologize for the inconvenience.

The affected units are:

The original (3025/3050) versions of the following:
Locust
Wasp
Stinger
Valkyrie
Ostscout
Phoenix Hawk
Shadow Hawk
Griffin
Scorpion
Wolverine
Ostroc
Ostsol
Rifleman
Crusader
Thunderbolt
Archer
Warhammer
Marauder
Goliath
Battlemaster
Stinger LAM
Wasp LAM
Phoenix Hawk LAM
Longbow
Marauder II
Behemoth (BattleDroids)
Samurai Aerospace Fighter
Galleon Light Tank


And the original (3055) versions of the following:
Nexus
Raijin
Grand Crusader
Baboon
Locust IIC
Vixen
Jenner IIC
Peregrine
Griffin IIC
Shadow Hawk IIC
Hellhound
Goshawk
Galahad
Rifleman IIC
Viper
Warhammer IIC
Phoenix Hawk IIC
Marauder IIC
Behemoth (Original Clan)
Kraken

Thank you,

- Herbert Beas
BattleTech
Catalyst Game Labs

[Popgun]

Shalmyan Moonsong, on 13 July 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

Umm the Battlemaster was not from, in or had anything to do with Robotech or Harmony Gold, It came from a Anime Series Called Dougram, which was kinda of pre-coursor to Heavy gear,

Heavy Gear was more directly based off VOTOMS. If anything Dougram and Xabungle were concurrently the precursor to Heavy Metal L-Gaim.

[Derek Flynn]

Unicorn1, on 14 July 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

The reason that the issue drives such passion is that for many players the mechs that they started the game with are those iconic designs.

I started with the original box set (then named Battledroids) and the Stinger, Wasp, Locust, Phoenix Hawk, Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Wolverine, Rifleman, Crusader, Archer, Warhammer and Marauder are the epitome of Battletechs roots, I played all of them and have a soft spot for them.

To those people who say there are other mechs, so get over these designs, it's like telling a sports fan that they should dump their favourite team, that they have supported for a quarter of a century or more, simply because they aren't winning.

Most true sports fans would, if they were polite, tell you to drop dead. The less polite, more passionate ones would probably deck you.

The unseen excite similar levels of passion amongst original board game players.

Unicorn

Not sure if this post was in direct reply to my earlier post or not. If so, I apologize for giving the wrong impression. After all, it was 5am when I posted and I was pretty tired at that point. But, to clarify, I wasn't suggesting that people who want the Unseen to "get over it" as you put it. On the contrary, I'd personally LOVE to have the Unseen make it into the game at some point. Like many of you, some of my favorite designs when I originally played years ago were Unseen. My only point was that with Harmony Gold's track record over this particular topic, I'm not going to hold my breath about it. All I was suggesting was that until such time as they're legally able to add them, if that day ever arrives, there are some pretty kick A$$ designs currently available and who knows how many more will be added as the game progresses.
I have faith that if things ever change from a legal standpoint the Devs will add many, if not all, of those designs at some point because they seem to truly want to give the fans what they want.

[NotNewHere]

Would anyone on this forum consider helping me stage an IRL armed conflict against HG in the name of FASA? If we cause enough property damage the resulting repair bill will bankrupt HG; then FASA can buy them out and we can have our favourite mechs back!

Who's with me?

[Belorion]

Viva la resistance!

[Monsoon]

Eh, their insurance would just cover that damage.

Personally, I say we go to Studio Nue and convince them to go to court against HG, since HG good faith on developing the product is nil! The last time HG did anything to do with Robotech, none of the designs looked like anything from the classic series. HG are just sitting on IP and screwing over Studio Nue while they're at it.

The only person at all trying to do anything with the Robotech franchise is Toby Maguire. Must be nice to be HG, do jack all and have a hollywood star try and fast track an IP you haven't done crap with in forever.

[Durant Carlyle]

My first exposure to BattleTech was the novels. Decision at Thunder Rift had a big glossary of BT terms in the back, along with an awesome collection of drawings of the Locust, Stinger, Wasp, Marauder, Rifleman, Warhammer, Phoenix Hawk, Thunderbolt, Shadow Hawk, Crusader, and others ... and even a couple of vehicles if I remember correctly.

The Project Phoenix designs would allow those iconic 'Mechs to be used in this game. They won't have the same profiles, but they also wouldn't get PGI sued.

Put it this way: Would you rather:

A. Have all of those iconic 'Mechs in the game, just looking a bit different than the originals.

-or-

B. Not have those iconic 'Mechs in the game at all.

I, for one, would pay another $120 if it would mean having all of the Project Phoenix designs in the game. I would rather have those than the Clan 'Mechs, to be honest.