22 replies to this topic

[Mister Blastman]

That's right! Non-issue. The changes made to flamers are not bad! The game is not burning to the ground, the sky is not falling... MWO has not disintegrated into a pile of ashes.

But... want to know what I really think? I think they are still wrong.

But... Blastman, you said they are a non-issue!

I did. I think we can leave them in as they are right now and they won't be a problem (for now).

HOWEVER

They can be gamed. There's a way to prevent that. There's a way to make them do what they should do... without destroying the spirit of what they are.

This is how flamers should really work:
Watch in fullscreen hd for all the goodies.



That's Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries. The way they worked was simple...

You fire them like a regular weapon. One trigger pull is one plume. That plume hits whatever you aim for instantly applying heat. You also take a lot of heat yourself. I don't know the specifics but it was something like...

1 flamer = 15 pts heat to target, 7.5 pts of heat to yourself
4 flamers = 60 pts heat to target, 30 pts of heat to yourself

It was totally possible to blow your own robit up firing a bloom of four flamers. You could also force an enemy robit to instantly explode if their heat was at max and yours wasn't even close.

Flamers... were a tactical weapon. You had them there to use them when you needed them--but you risked a lot because... they were HARD TO AIM.

That's right... a slower moving cloud of flame. There was skill to hitting with flamers. That's a video against AI... humans were flying around etc. so it was much harder to use them.

That's how flamers should be in MWO.

What we have now, with the changes--they are serviceable--but can be gamed. They can be fine how they are... or they can be... different, as shown in the video.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 17 February 2016 - 02:44 PM.

[Percy Veer]

I like you...shall we have babies...

[Malachy Karrde]

I would agree... tried to use them last night...no visible effect. was hit by a couple... didn't really affect me... just stopped using energy weapons until I killed the little tard with my ballistics.

[Impyrium]

I wouldn't mind something like that. I mean I also don't mind them as they are. But regardless.

MWO players tend to be a sensitive bunch. You change one tiny thing and the world is ending. Can you image giving flamers the ability to blast a mech's heat up so high it melts down? Even with the risk to yourself and the skill required. People would be crying for months regardless of how balanced it was.

Something I think MWO could benefit from is the expansion of the heat scale to be more than just 0-100 then shutdown. It should be 0-heat sink capacity and then an extra 30 points or so TT style where your 'mech starts to take detrimental effects.

[PocketYoda]

So your facts are it worked ok in Mechwarrior 2 so its ok in Mechwarrior online...


No they are broken and need removal..

Edited by Samial, 17 February 2016 - 05:26 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Samial, on 17 February 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

So your facts are it worked ok in Mechwarrior 2 so its ok in Mechwarrior online...


No they are broken and need removal..

LOL what?

[Mystere]

Samial, on 17 February 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

So your facts are it worked ok in Mechwarrior 2 so its ok in Mechwarrior online...

No they are broken and need removal..

Edited by Mystere, 17 February 2016 - 06:38 PM.

[Thunder Child]

Samial, on 17 February 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

So your facts are it worked ok in Mechwarrior 2 so its ok in Mechwarrior online...


No they are broken and need removal..

Most of the maps are broken too, shall we remove them as well?
SRM hitreg breaks occasionally. Remove them.
Light mechs don't always register hits properly. REMOVE THEM! You get where this is going?
The Flamers are broken, yes, but not because they are finally working. It's because the mechanic PGI is using can be manipulated by a macro. Much like AC2s could be macro'ed to Spray Smoke Effects and MASSIVE SCREEN SHAKE, effectively blinding most players.
The simplest fix for Flamers would be to remove the exponential heat and firing memory system they are currently using, and just use a flat 1.5 h/s to the user for 3 h/s to the target (these are ballpark values that could be adjusted through testing). This way, to get the benefit from the weapons, you need to be firing them consistently.

Personally, I'd prefer them to work like gas cutter torches, producing very high heat per second for very high Damage per Second. Machine Guns would be buffed to have the same DPS, but be ammo reliant and heatless.

But hey, what do I know, I'm just a TT enthusiast Tier 3 Scrub.

[John1352]

It would be so much easier to balance them without the "exponential" scaling. Just one heat/sec value for the user and another for the target.

[Mystere]

It's funny that in spite of all the whining, I have yet to see someone using flamers (solo queue, of course). With all the brouhaha, you'd think you'd see one in each and every game.

[Wild Pegasus]

Mystere, on 17 February 2016 - 10:28 PM, said:

It's funny that in spite of all the whining, I have yet to see someone using flamers (solo queue, of course). With all the brouhaha, you'd think you'd see one in each and every game.

Unless Metamechs.com puts up a giant flashing banner saying "FLAMERS WORK DIFFERENT NOW", the vast majority of the playerbase won't even realize flamers have changed beyond the graphical appearance because they don't ever look at the forums or bother to read patch notes.

[Nauht]

I tried them in solo queue.

Then realised that if I could find a lone target as a light, ragter than shutting them down I could have just killed them outright.

[Revis Volek]

Sami Starvixen, on 17 February 2016 - 11:05 PM, said:

Unless Metamechs.com puts up a giant flashing banner saying "FLAMERS WORK DIFFERENT NOW", the vast majority of the playerbase won't even realize flamers have changed beyond the graphical appearance because they don't ever look at the forums or bother to read patch notes.

HAHA!

This is very true, I know quite a few pilots who if it ISNT on META Mechs they wont even look at it.

In a few more weeks the meta followers will start putting thread up too, "WHEN DID FLAMERS GET GUD?!?!?!"

[Mcgral18]

Nauht, on 17 February 2016 - 11:08 PM, said:

I tried them in solo queue.

Then realised that if I could find a lone target as a light, ragter than shutting them down I could have just killed them outright.

I've been using them to coerce pilots into shutting down...then melting their face.

7 headshots over the past 2 days.


I like these Flamers.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

People think flamers are a non-issue because they don't know how to build a good flaming mech yet. If that knowledge become widespread before PGI rebalances them, there will be a whinestorm of epic size.

Nauht, on 17 February 2016 - 11:08 PM, said:

I tried them in solo queue.
Then realised that if I could find a lone target as a light, ragter than shutting them down I could have just killed them outright.

Shut down targets don't fight back.
With a right brawler-oriented build, you basically sacrifice ~10 points of alpha (2 flamers are enough) for the ability to have your opponent totally defenseless if you look at him first. Worst case for you - he shots you once and gets defenseless, can overheat and die or try to run away. Best case for you - get a kill with enemy unable to return fire at all.

In a group Q, you sacrifice 2 tons (not all mechs use up all energy hardpoints they have) for the ability to practically eliminate 1 mech every 3 seconds in a brawl.

Mystere, on 17 February 2016 - 10:28 PM, said:

It's funny that in spite of all the whining, I have yet to see someone using flamers (solo queue, of course). With all the brouhaha, you'd think you'd see one in each and every game.

Give it time.
Played mostly group Q yesterday and was using 2 flamers on my cent D. Usually overheated 4-5 mechs per match, We won every match I was in, except that one where nearly all of the enemy team had at least 1 flamer on their mechs.

[Widowmaker1981]

Solo queue they arent really a problem, despite being disgustingly overpowered, because they kinda need group queue level aggression because of the short range.

If these values arent changed though, its going to completely screw up comp matches and small games (4v4 in CW is boned). Need to at least fix the ability to chainfire them and not build heat.

[Cyborne Elemental]

For IS mechs, a 1 ton weapon that doesn't do any damage is a big gamble vs the utility of 1 DHS, ton of ammo, Medlas, AMS, 1 ton of armor ect..

Clan mechs, 0.5 tons you can put at least one on somewhere and it doesn't really cost you as much on any build.

[Curccu]

Mister D, on 18 February 2016 - 12:53 AM, said:

For IS mechs, a 1 ton weapon that doesn't do any damage is a big gamble vs the utility of 1 DHS, ton of ammo, Medlas, AMS, 1 ton of armor ect..

Clan mechs, 0.5 tons you can put at least one on somewhere and it doesn't really cost you as much on any build.

it doesn't do damage but it prevents it. It kinda works like damage absorber, enemy with 90% heat will not shoot you much unless it's gaussboat.

[William Mountbank]

Percy Veer, on 17 February 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

I like you...shall we have babies...

You're talking about vat grown sibkos... Right?

[Mystere]

Sami Starvixen, on 17 February 2016 - 11:05 PM, said:

Unless Metamechs.com puts up a giant flashing banner saying "FLAMERS WORK DIFFERENT NOW", the vast majority of the playerbase won't even realize flamers have changed beyond the graphical appearance because they don't ever look at the forums or bother to read patch notes.

Metemechs.com? Did you just say that the vast majority of the playerbase is made up of "monkey see, monkey do" types?

Edited by Mystere, 18 February 2016 - 05:32 AM.