29 replies to this topic

[TheCharlatan]

I agree.
I'll go put a gauss rifle on my Black Knight.... no wait... my crab...no...my lights?
Hmmmm

[PyckenZot]

The answer is to see how it turns out first.

As stated in other threads. I have yet to see a negative impact of flamers on players playing in a team mindset and non high-heat-high-alpha builds.

[Mystere]

PyckenZot, on 18 February 2016 - 05:41 AM, said:

The answer is to see how it turns out first.

As stated in other threads. I have yet to see a negative impact of flamers on players playing in a team mindset and non high-heat-high-alpha builds.

Didn't you get the memo? In MWO, "team mindset" actually means 1 vs. 1 encounters.

[Widowmaker1981]

PyckenZot, on 18 February 2016 - 05:41 AM, said:

As stated in other threads. I have yet to see a negative impact of flamers on players playing in a team mindset and non high-heat-high-alpha builds.

This is a complete strawman designed to play on peoples hatred of laser boats. Its not 'high heat high alpha builds' that are affected. It is ALL builds not running AC5s or Gauss. No other weapon can be used at 90% heat without it being utterly pathetic and pointless (slowly chainfired medium lasers, single SRM6 every 3-4s.. lol. You might kill a mist lynx with weapons fire like that, given 5 minutes)

Its an obvious problem for comp, 4v4 and solaris. That should be reason enough to at the very least fix it so the flaming mech cannot avoid all heat gain.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 18 February 2016 - 05:50 AM.

[Ultimax]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 February 2016 - 05:48 AM, said:

This is a complete strawman designed to play on peoples hatred of laser boats. Its not 'high heat high alpha builds' that are affected. It is ALL builds not running AC5s or Gauss. No other weapon can be used at 90% heat without it being utterly pathetic and pointless (slowly chainfired medium lasers, single SRM6 every 3-4s.. lol. You might kill a mist lynx with weapons fire like that, given 5 minutes)

Its an obvious problem for comp, 4v4 and solaris. That should be reason enough to at the very least fix it so the flaming mech cannot avoid all heat gain.

Yeah, it's unfortunate that the game's developers don't actually understand their own game mechanics.

[Wintersdark]

Ultimax, on 18 February 2016 - 05:52 AM, said:

Yeah, it's unfortunate that the game's developers don't actually understand their own game mechanics.

In their defense here, if used normally and not abused (group fire, chain fire) Flamers have linearly increasing heat generation which results in a hard cap of how much heat you can project before firing even one flamer generates an absurd amount of heat - and that takes some time to decay.

They just didn't anticipate people abusing the way lasers work (damage in instantaneous ticks, specifically the first tick) to spam-click and thus spend more time not firing than firing, but still getting the first tick of heat.

It's definitely an exploit that bypasses measures set in place to prevent it.

[PyckenZot]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 February 2016 - 05:48 AM, said:

This is a complete strawman designed to play on peoples hatred of laser boats. Its not 'high heat high alpha builds' that are affected. It is ALL builds not running AC5s or Gauss. No other weapon can be used at 90% heat without it being utterly pathetic and pointless (slowly chainfired medium lasers, single SRM6 every 3-4s.. lol. You might kill a mist lynx with weapons fire like that, given 5 minutes)

Its an obvious problem for comp, 4v4 and solaris. That should be reason enough to at the very least fix it so the flaming mech cannot avoid all heat gain.

I understand the theory but have yet to see the issue translated in the current game. I agree that 4v4 and 1v1 will probably be funny with the new flamers indeed.

[Widowmaker1981]

PyckenZot, on 18 February 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

I understand the theory but have yet to see the issue translated in the current game. I agree that 4v4 and 1v1 will probably be funny completely pointless with the new flamers indeed.

FTFY

I guess this actually wont be a problem for comp games, since all leagues will very obviously just ban flamers as it stands.

[Wintersdark]

Mystere, on 18 February 2016 - 05:37 AM, said:

is to keep your distance.

As I've said, I'll accept that it's possible I haven't encountered people using Flamers "right", but I'm quite aware of exactly how they work (couple days of testing now in McGral's thread).

Times I've been attacked by a flamer equipped mech? Several.
Times Flamers have seriously impacted me? Zero.

I take single shots at them, while moving back towards my team (who I'm near to begin with) forcing the flamer mech to disengage or get crushed.

Or just keep my distance in the first place.

And, yeah, you can fire an AC20 at 90% heat, if you've got a heatcap of 70 or above.

5's and 10's are easy. SRM's are no problem, though chainfired. LBX work great (cooler than normal ballistics, and at <90m they may as well be si gle shell)

Medium and smaller lasers can be chained. Machine guns work just fine.

You can still move just fine, so just walking away works.

"But wait!" You say, "Wintersdark, aren't you the one always trashing LBX's for being terrible? Machine guns? Wtf!"

Well, if Flamers become popular, it'll change the sort of loadouts you want to bring. A couple Flamers yourself - even one or two - and you can mutually heatcap.

Let it settle, figure out how to cope in the mean time.

Quote

Say what? PGI is getting weak-kneed again?

Well, it does look like he's going to wait a bit and see what happens in actual gameplay, rather than just reflexively nerfsmashing Flamers back into uselessness.

God forbid people avoid facehumping flamer mechs. Why, that's just totally unreasonable.

Widowmaker1981, on 18 February 2016 - 06:25 AM, said:

FTFY

I guess this actually wont be a problem for comp games, since all leagues will very obviously just ban flamers as it stands.

This. There are no 1v1 and 4v4 matches, outside of private matches. Just say "no Flamers" if they're a problem in your custom games. This is not a problem.

[Wintersdark]

TheCharlatan, on 18 February 2016 - 05:39 AM, said:

I agree.
I'll go put a gauss rifle on my Black Knight.... no wait... my crab...no...my lights?
Hmmmm

"all my mechs are laser vomit builds, this is so unfair!"