12 replies to this topic

[Impyrium]

The heat scale- should it finally be looked at? If I were the designer, I'd do this. This is not a proposal for the overhaul of the heat system- simply an expansion on its effect on gameplay and a different way of presenting the information on the HUD.

Currently, once you cross over your heat capacity, even slightly, you shut down automatically. If you override that, you start taking significant internal damage at random locations. It's both binary and random.

My change- expand the area beyond your base capacity. Represent that excess heat in a new gauge that would sit next to the current gauge, like so:



Instead of simply shutting down immediately as you cross into the zone, your mech begins taking negative effects.

There's three 'zones' as shown on the gauge. Each zone represents a negative effect that is inflicted upon you when you cross into it. The first zone sees your mech's maneuvering and top speed take a hit. The second zone sees your weapon cool downs increase. The final zone is really pushing it and will start seeing you take damage, starting from your ST internals and then your CT once the STs are destroyed. Finally, hitting the max excess heat level will see your 'mech actually shut down.

The point of this scale is to remove binary mech effects, so the level of the negative effect would start at 0% and increase as you push into the scale. Thus, at only just touching excess heat at 104% heat, you might only see a -10% movement penalty, but at 120% heat that might go all the way up to -40% penalty.

The exact values and levels would be up to someone that actually knows how to balance MWO, I'm just proposing the concept. I can envisage a set 30-point excess heat scale that would apply to every 'mech. While you can only see the heat percentage in-game, obviously there's your actual heat points in the background. The negative effects would have to be bad enough to seriously deter anyone from crossing into it without planning first.

Why?

• Most importantly, it removes the binary nature of overheating while still including negative effects that punish careless firing.
  
• It removes the randomness of taking heat damage. While I don't mind random mechanics myself, having your head explode because reasons at 101% heat is a little silly and hardly fitting for competitive play.
  
• It increases the depth and tactical flexibility of how you want to pilot your 'mech. Do you play it safe, or do you try to push it just that little bit more at the expense of having a very vulnerable 'mech while it cools down?
  
• It adds to the skill required in fire discipline because of it. It's not just a free ticket for an extra alpha, since you may just be setting yourself up for an early grave.
  
• Flamers become a little less frustrating if the defender can actually fire back, since the flamer is no longer fully stunlocking a mech at 90% heat. On the other hand, it's still being useful since it will likely lower the opponent's combat capability.
  
• It'll keep us BT purists a little happier since it works very similar to BattleTech's overheat scale.

Anyway, that's my silly late night idea. It's how I would implement heat as a mechanic and... well, I have, because I have my own little BT fan-game I'm working on that uses this exact mechanic. Which is where this all stemmed from. I could show a video if anyone is confused as to how it would work from above.


But what do you think? The current heat system isn't really bad or inadequate or anything, I just feel like it'd be a great area to expand upon without being overly technically challenging (you'd think). The flamer changes have really highlighted it to me lately.

[Fiona Marshe]

The player base has been trying to get Russ to fix the heatscale since 2012. Lost cause.

[BabyCakes666]

FIX YOUR **** RUSS

[CDLord HHGD]

Fiona Marshe, on 18 February 2016 - 05:42 AM, said:

The player base has been trying to get Russ to fix the heatscale since 2012. Lost cause.

Yes we have but it's not a lost cause!

[Funky Bacon]

cdlord, on 18 February 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

Yes we have but it's not a lost cause!

Only a lost cause if you stop trying.

[Almond Brown]

Quote

The final zone is really pushing it and will start seeing you take damage

Can't really see any benefit, at all, to just adding more Heat being allowed as overhead (2 more "levels" according to the document) before taking the one thing, "damage" to your Mech, that makes a real difference, such that the current "Override" mechanic basically becomes "obsolete". Or can we "Override" after reaching Level 3 thus preserving the Players right to allow themselves to commit suicide by simply pressing "O"...

How many players do you think would love nothing more than to have even "more Heat Capacity" at the small cost of some slight Speed or minor Cool Down deficits? And if you make the Penalties to stiff for driving a "Hot Mech", you kill game play and thus the FUN aspect of the current "Run and Gun" nature of MWO...

MWO has more than enough "Peek and Poke" game play already, no need to feed that beast further...

[Dimento Graven]

Almond Brown, on 18 February 2016 - 07:41 AM, said:

Can't really see any benefit, at all, to just adding more Heat being allowed as overhead (2 more "levels" according to the document) before taking the one thing, "damage" to your Mech, that makes a real difference, such that the current "Override" mechanic basically becomes "obsolete". Or can we "Override" after reaching Level 3 thus preserving the Players right to allow themselves to commit suicide by simply pressing "O"...

Something like this is a good starting point, can be tweaked and adjusted, even on a per 'mech bases (new sets of quirks) to add some depth to the game and to curtail the 'alpha or nothing" firing mentality too much of the playerbase employs.

Quote

How many players do you think would love nothing more than to have even "more Heat Capacity" at the small cost of some slight Speed or minor Cool Down deficits? And if you make the Penalties to stiff for driving a "Hot Mech", you kill game play and thus the FUN aspect of the current "Run and Gun" nature of MWO...

That's just it, it should NOT be ALL "run and gun", there should be some risk to doing nothing but constantly, repeatedly, alpha'ing your weapons. You can set the new scale to start negative affects somewhere between 50 and 75 percent of current heat capacity. Yes it expands the heat capacity, but it provides actual RISK to continue to alpha. You can even add additional affect levels, disappearing hud, weapons misfires, etc., that make your 'mech more unpredictable as the heat climbs.

Quote

MWO has more than enough "Peek and Poke" game play already, no need to feed that beast further...

I don't believe this affects "peek and poke" at all, it just MIGHT make people play a bit more intelligently instead of having lights running full speed blasting lasers for 15 solid minutes, they'd have to take a more reserved approach as they start to suffer speed penalties at higher heat. Likewise the large slow assaults, same thing, but even more so (think of a Direwolf moving at only 30kph while his heat is up and how much of a victim he'd become if not actually being careful with his firing)..

It's a good idea, and this or something like it should be pursued so that we can eliminate non-intuitive band-aids like "ghost heat"...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 18 February 2016 - 07:53 AM.

[feeWAIVER]

No.
We don't need more heat capacity.
It's fine.

[Tyler Valentine]

Dingo Red, on 18 February 2016 - 05:35 AM, said:

The exact values and levels would be up to someone that actually knows how to balance MWO

If only PGI had such an employee...

[wanderer]

It'd take a Highlander-esque hero coming along and whacking heads off while bellowing THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!

But they nerfed them into the ground so it's not happening.

[Impyrium]

Almond Brown, on 18 February 2016 - 07:41 AM, said:

Can't really see any benefit, at all, to just adding more Heat being allowed as overhead (2 more "levels" according to the document) before taking the one thing, "damage" to your Mech, that makes a real difference, such that the current "Override" mechanic basically becomes "obsolete". Or can we "Override" after reaching Level 3 thus preserving the Players right to allow themselves to commit suicide by simply pressing "O"...

How many players do you think would love nothing more than to have even "more Heat Capacity" at the small cost of some slight Speed or minor Cool Down deficits? And if you make the Penalties to stiff for driving a "Hot Mech", you kill game play and thus the FUN aspect of the current "Run and Gun" nature of MWO...

MWO has more than enough "Peek and Poke" game play already, no need to feed that beast further...

Not quite.

Override is no longer a thing. If you push your heat you'll be straight into the excess zone. The effects were more examples if anything, but the idea was that you'd play with your heat a little differently. There would be no reason really to intentionally push yourself into forced shutdown/damage range.

And as I tried to stress above, it's not just more 'free' heat range. The effects wouldn't be 'slight' at all- I'm talking half your movement capacity at the lowest levels and doubling or more weapon cooldowns. And then keep in mind the overheat scale is larger than most mech's heat scale and as such if you push yourself into it you won't be coming back out very quickly.

Peek and poke is more up to the players. If players want to do that then that will be what happens. However, the smart team will take advantage of the fact that the other team is gimping their ability to move and fire quickly.

[Pariah Devalis]

Not a bad idea, and something that has been pushed for in the past. The one part of your proposal that has me scratching my head is "why the second bar?" Just make it one bar, and slap in four sections on that heat bar.

First section, everything is fine. Second, you start taking mobility related issues and maybe the hud starts to get staticy, third, your weapons don't converge or take longer to fire and your hud becomes minimal, and on the fourth you start taking damage that can potentially crit ammunition, as well as your HUD completely shutting down. Effects of the lower tier heat penalties continue into the higher tiers, of course.

I wouldn't make it a 1/1/1/1 split, though. More like 0-50 is fine, 51-70 is mobility, 71-85 is weaponry, and 86-100+ causes self harm.

I'd also throw on an overheat shutdown warning at 70%, and an automatic shutdown at 85% unless you overrode your shutdown sequence, but with how wonky our heat scale is that might not be enough warning to disable shutdown.

Belated edit: Flamer heat cap would need to be lowered a bit. Say... to 65%. The flamers will raise your heat enough to slow you down, and virtually any weapon fire will push you into reduced offensive capabilities, but you would still be able to defend yourself without shutting down immediately.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 20 February 2016 - 07:05 AM.

[Cabbage Merchant]

I'm not a huge fan of the RNG randomly making my head explode. Happened last night at 102% and was literally my first time going over 100 that match. Other matches I can override up to 125% multiple times without before losing a torso to heat. I'd like it to be more streamlined and/or consistent, even if that means overriding is riskier.

I distinctly remember one match where I was really tired and wasn't watching my heat. My buddy was spectating me and claims that I was around 150% for at least a minute without dying.