20 replies to this topic

[sam wesson]

How does a new Raven-3L pilot know if he is doing well. Is there progress being made?

I keep tying to support LRM boats or the heavy and assaults, but I get killed pretty quick. Is that what a Raven pilot should do? If I ever see a Trebuchet standing alone I go and hang around him. Or I Narc and Tag if he doesn't have targets. If there aren't any boats I find the heavies and mill around trying to spot targets and keep the Spiders at bay.

How can I tell if I'm doing the right thing? My C-bills at the end?

Anyways,
Thanks.

EDIT Here is my current build in Smurfys
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5055859ae8979fe

Edited by sam wesson, 22 February 2016 - 06:40 AM.

[JMuss]

What is your build like? Try something like this http://mwo.smurfy-ne...68462d4aae44f58 notice that it uses 2 ER Large lasers, with your ECM you can be a decent sniper/recon. If you're dying quickly you're likely getting too close to the enemy. http://metamechs.com...r-guides/raven/

[Leone]

sam wesson, on 20 February 2016 - 06:20 PM, said:

How does a new Raven-3L pilot know if he is doing well. Is there progress being made?

If your doing well, you should be annoying the enemy an getting them to shoot at you an not your allies. Note here I said at you. If your doing well, your moving around too much for anyone to actually hit you much.

sam wesson, on 20 February 2016 - 06:20 PM, said:

How can I tell if I'm doing the right thing? My C-bills at the end?

Are you having fun? If so, then your doing it right.

~Leone.

[SilentFenris]

sam wesson, on 20 February 2016 - 06:20 PM, said:

I keep tying to support LRM boats or the heavy and assaults, but I get killed pretty quick. Is that what a Raven pilot should do?

How can I tell if I'm doing the right thing? My C-bills at the end?

As Leone mentioned you are doing it right if you are having fun.

The RVN-3L has a good variety of hardpoints. In addition to the NARC/TAG spotter and the double ER large laser sniper, you could also try:
- 2 SRM6 + Artemis. Makes a decent boom and zoom. Run up behind and enemy fire once and run away, 24 free damage.
- 3 medium pulse lasers can be done. I am not a big fan as the RVN has limited firing arcs for keeping up with fast targets like other light mechs. But you can harass heavies and assaults easily.

Always remember the key to light mechs is to KEEP MOVING. ECM prevents lock, but you can still be seen. I have killed many a RVN with gauss and PPCs when they stop movi g because they think they are safe.

Edited by GrayFenris, 20 February 2016 - 07:46 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Man, Leone just NAILED it! After all, this is a GAME. The whole point of it is entertainment. "Are you not ENTERTAINED?!"

As for the RVN-3L, I've spent a LOT of time in those. For starters, the build. It'd be helpful to see it.

The RVN-3L(C) is a REALLY different bird from the stock RVN-3L. For that matter, it's pretty much inferior. XL210 engine right off the bat, which isn't really cool. Too slow for that mech. XL 280 or XL 295.

Weapons are as much pilot's preference as anything. Long-range, you could do the standard 2x ERLL. Or an ERPPC and a couple MLs. You could go short-range with, say, 3x MPL and some SRMs. You can go full-on spotter with the TAG and NARC, along with some short-range weaponry. Keeping the ECM is pretty much a MUST, though.

So, how will you know you're doing it right? It's almost always in terms of trades. Do you put out more damage than you take? And do you do it in your range bracket? And if you're playing spotter, are you getting and holding good targets for your buddies to do the same (win trades in their range brackets)? And so on. THESE are the measures. Forget KDR. W/L is honestly more important, and will earn you more XP and CBills. And it'll win you more stuff in challenges, and faster. You might not feel like some god of war, but that's the Raven life.

[invernomuto]

My experience so far (in PUG):
Five matches with the trial Raven,
- 2 won, 3 lost;
- Got *always* killed;
- Scored an average of 100 damage per match;
Not easy to play with, I feel quite useless for the outcome of the match.
Maybe Lights are not my cup of tea...

Cheers,
D.

Edited by invernomuto, 21 February 2016 - 02:22 AM.

[epikt]

sam wesson, on 20 February 2016 - 06:20 PM, said:

I keep tying to support LRM boats or the heavy and assaults, but I get killed pretty quick. Is that what a Raven pilot should do? If I ever see a Trebuchet standing alone I go and hang around him. Or I Narc and Tag if he doesn't have targets. If there aren't any boats I find the heavies and mill around trying to spot targets and keep the Spiders at bay.

Not sure it's a good idea. If you see a lonely LRM boat, tell them they must regroup with the main pack. If they don't, don't take any risk trying to mitigate their mistake, let them die by a wolfpack if they must, let them blame the team for their own bad positioning, hopefully they will learn. The raven is not a knife-figther, you have absolutely no chance against a Firestarter for example, so don't look for close range fights.

Instead, work on the flanks at mid/long range, harass the enemy and try to catch them in a crossfire. Your job will be to 1/ wear out the enemy armor before the main fight, 2/ occasionally finish a wounded mech with a precise blow and 3/ draw some enemy fire away from your teammates. Don't always peak from the same position, or you'll take very punishing return fire: take one shot, maybe another if you're confident, and change your spot, even slightly. You don't have much armor, so try not to take damage (basically, if they deal to you as many damage as you dealt to them, it is a bad trade for you). Always be aware of your surroundings, you must be able to retreat and take shelter in your pack if the enemy is trying to charge you.

[Koniving]

Welcome to MWO.
Make sure you have ECM equipped. If you don't, you'll find things to be a little harder.

Have you customized your armor? As an early edit, add Endo Steel structure (and remove Ferro Fibrous armor) and raise your armor up to max. Due to hitboxes, a Raven is 92% front torsos and only 8% rear, so ignore the default armor placement. You need lots of it. An ideal Raven pilot will never be hit in the rear (with that insane torso twist, there's little reason you can't keep your eyes on the enemy at all times once you get the hang of it).

Good luck, and remember having fun is more important than anything else.

(Personally I suggest streak missiles and maybe a large or several medium pulse lasers. Pulse lasers deliver damage in shorter amounts of time but have shorter range; ideal for hit and runs. A large laser has long range, ideal for supporting allies and the streaks can help keep other potentially faster lights off of you.)

[Eaerie]

As Koniving said, without knowing your build kind of limited in what we can suggest. But if you are using the 2LLas build then make sure you arent shooting from where the enemy is ably to target you quickly, never shoot from the same place more than 2 times, never stand in the open. move out of cover enough to shoot and even before your beam has finished you should be moving back into cover. I personally prefer the 4X as a LLas sniper due to the quirks, and build the 3L as a striker/brawler but they both function as a LLas sniper.
Not sure what the default armor values are on the 3L but it should be modified to be front armor mostly with a little token armor in the rears. and make sure the CT is maxed if nothing else.

[sam wesson]

The first 3 runs I ran it stock. Then I set it up with 1 ER laser and Narc, tag, ECM & AMS. This has uses in maps with longer shots and low risk of Spiders. With shorter maps it's almost useless without any experience on that map. Somebody will walk up behind you.

So I added 1 med laser and the removed the XL 295 in favor of the XL 265, but without AMS. That was some help. Just not enough.

Right now I am using 2 Mlas, Srm2 with 2 tons of ammo, AMS, Narc, tag & beagle. Ran this yesterday. The loadout shows a little potential IF I can learn the maps. Had my first try at Terra therma. Enemy just killed my teammate and shot me in the back. It was very quick.

Anyway, thanks for the input.
See ya.

Edited by sam wesson, 29 February 2016 - 04:33 PM.

[Dekallis]

As a fellow newbish newbie let me share what i've learned about lights.

You can probably accomplish damn well anything you want to....if you're creative about it.

ECM is a pretty handy crutch as a newbie until you become more familiar with maps and common points of battle so make sure you keep that on there. (I've done things with a kit fox it's definitely not supposed to because of ECM allowing me to creep up on unaware mauler/atlas/direwolf pilots)

How to play your light mech depends entirely....well...on you. You can scout, though you will definitely want to have ECM so you don't eat a hail of missiles on first contact. Scout mechs do well with narcs/tag lasers supported by LRM boats. you can get a lot of points/cbills just from spotting assists.

Alternatively you can follow along with the bigger mechs and keep them in your ECM umbrella so it's hard to track where your team is moving without line of sight on them. If you're running an AMS you're probably better off staying with the group your AMS helps protect them too. Even if you aren't actively doing much simply being nearby with ECM and an AMS may be helping your team much more than you realize. This setup favors indirect support fire tactics like LRM lobbing where you can do significant damage without line of sight. stick some small lasers on there for backup weapons when you run out of ammo. If you play this way you'll proly want to drop the narc beacon(there won't be room for it) and just focus on support maybe run the tag laser if you can safely peek out and tag things or need faster/more accurate lock ons. you can't really afford artemis guidance on a light missile boat but you should be able to load about 5-600 missiles with 2-3 small lasers(depending on whether you choose tag) without having to remove your heatsinks. That's plenty of damage to support the team with if you make your missiles count.(I know this from running a kitfox with a single LRM15 some jumpjets,ecm and not much else) just be aware any ams at all will make your volleys useless by themselves.
Something like:
RVN-3L may be useful. I'm not expert mech smith but it's a start.

Now if you want to be a combat light pilot, I recommend getting some jump jets because the avenues of escape JJ's open up are really nice to have and lights can hop higher than any other mech class. You'll be able to hop up on ledges that heavier mechs can't access even if they do have JJ's.

Second decide whether you're going to be a dps or hit and run fighter, the latter is easier, you can load up on a big gun or two and some ammo/heatsinks and not much else poke from the edge of your reach and move as soon as you fire rather than hanging around tempting people into chasing you. Since your damage is done all at once every weapon cycle there's no downside to hitting and running immediately after firing. On the other hand, a dps build needs to stick around but can have more profound effect on the battle field (I use a near suicidal quad MG triple small pulse laser setup on my kitfox at the moment.) You need to become good at avoiding lines of sight, flanking and opening up with the surprise buttsecks Assault pilots always freak out a little when you suddenly unload a bunch of lasers into their backside because they know it's a soft spot you're GOING to get their attention because if they don't turn to deal with you they'll die very quickly so be prepared for that and have some idea where you want to flee to in advance. For example if I'm mining colony and I see any mech with it's back to me i'll look at the nearby ledges and decide which way i want to do. I'll run up firing my mg's pulse my lasers once and hop on up and gtfo out of there. It turns around to find.....either empty space or just catch a glimpse of me cresting the ledge and i'm gone as they maybe get a shot off.(when it's done right...it doesn't always go so well.)

Also be prepared for short games....It's unavoidable that sometimes someone will just be in the right place at the right time and will nail you and end your game early with minimal damage dealt. It'll happen.....alot when you're not familiar with mechs and weapons. The first time I tried to take down a King Crab drunk on arrogance after downing a mech that didn't feel the need to turn around. I ate twin AC/20's and that was all she wrote for my poor kitfox. Lesson learned:remember to scout what weapons people are equipped with before you engage.

You may have noticed I have the insane tendancy to pick fights well above my weight class as i keep mentioning assaults, but that's mostly because Assaults are the ones most likely to be standing still on the battlefield which in turn makes them very tempting targets for hit and run tactics or backstabbing. I'll never forget this one match an Atlas was just standing there on forest colony by the water and i ran up behind it and just pulsed lasers into it's back till it died....he never even bothered to look around he was so focused on the targets in front of him. Lesson learned: A distracted target is a good target. an inattentive one is a free kill.

Don't underestimate small lasers. They hurt. Alot and your mech can run quickly enough to close gaps pretty quickly. So the short range isn't as much of a problem for a ECM unit.

Oh and make sure ammo is NOT in the same section as your engines if you can help it. Trust me it'll save you some absurdly quick deaths. I'm sure there's other things I'm forgetting but....there's alot to learn about lights. I'm STILL learning things from my kitfox though i've been using it for what feels like ages now and I'm only just starting to really get into mediums around here.

Oh and don't be too in a hurry to 'elite' or master a chassis....it isn't actually essential, helpful yes essential?No. Save the extra effort for a mech you really love playing.

[DerSandmannMax]

http://i.imgur.com/H4a8d0J.png

If it says anything what my favorite mech is.

There's a bunch of different playstyles you can run on the 3L. The champion mech, which a lot of people seem to go for is a scout with long range poking lasers. With the long range build, your job is to always be finding, targeting, and shooting the enemies with nonreturnable damage. Pop out of cover long enough to get your laser burst off, then relocate. If you're ever getting hit by the enemy team, you're picking bad positions. If you're playing as a long range scout, play to your strengths. Not many mechs have weapons that can reach the same distance and deal full damage. You should always be firing. If at any point your heat is under 100%, you're wasting potential damage. Your optimal range is 675 with ER Large, so anything farther than that, you're losing some damage. Even with losing some damage, you are better off engaging at ~690-700 because at that range, the only lasers that can hit you are ER-Larges or Clan Larges.

Here's also a build which has a completely different play-style. It plays more like the Huginn, where you try and get behind the enemy and pick off heavier mechs 1v1. Most clan assaults are free kills if they are alone.

http://i.imgur.com/jmraNwc.jpg

Edited by DerSandmannMax, 21 February 2016 - 02:51 PM.

[epikt]

Dekallis, on 21 February 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:

RVN-3L may be useful. I'm not expert mech smith but it's a start.

This build is really bad.

1/ it needs the double heat-sink upgrade ;
2/ endo-steel upgrage must ALWAYS be done before the ferro-fibrous, since it will always give you more tonnage ;
3/ it's slow, very slow ;
4/ it's weakly armored, especially in the legs. On a light mech, especially a Raven, you need full leg armor ;
5/ LRM on a light mech... 'nuff said ;
6/ ammo in the arm - this arm is the only part of this mech you could afford to lose, that you'd be happy to lose, don't store ammo there ;
7/ bad synergy between the different weapon systems.

[Rogue Jedi]

sam wesson, on 21 February 2016 - 01:20 PM, said:

The first 3 runs I ran it stock. Then I set it up with 1 ER laser and Narc, tag, ECM & AMS. This has uses in maps with longer shots and low risk of Spiders. With shorter maps it's almost useless without any experience on that map. Somebody will walk up behind you.

So I added 1 med laser and the removed the XL 295 in favor of the XL 265, but without AMS. That was some help. Just not enough.

Right now I am using 2 Mlas, Srm2 with 2 tons of ammo, AMS, Narc, tag & beagle. Ran this yesterday. The loadout shows a little potential IF I can learn the maps. Had my first try at Terra therma. Got shot in the back. Just killed my teammate and shot me in the back. It was very quick.

Anyway, thanks for the input.
See ya.

sam wesson, on 21 February 2016 - 01:20 PM, said:

Right now I am using 2 Mlas, Srm2 with 2 tons of ammo, AMS, Narc, tag & beagle. Ran this yesterday. The loadout shows a little potential IF I can learn the maps. Had my first try at Terra therma. Got shot in the back. Just killed my teammate and shot me in the back. It was very quick.

does this look like what you are running?
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c0492c0792f778e

if so and if you like the idea behind the setup I would suggest the following
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...655cab7d4084b6d
by adding Fero as well as Endo you free up almost a ton, by taking a little armor off the head ^{(it is extremely unusual to die from a head shot in any Mech but especially a Light)} and LRMs should not be a problem for a Light, especially if you take ECM so I removed the AMS to fit an ECM, with half a ton to spare,
2 tons of ammo was about 4 times what I would take for an SRM2 so I reduced SRM ammo while upgrading the SRM2 to an SRM4, 1.5 tons should be plenty for an SRM4, I usualy take 1 ton for an SRM4 and do not usualy use it all.

Taking both TAG and NARC seems like overkill so consider swapping the TAG for another ML or the NARC and ammo for another SRM

[Fox With A Shotgun]

If you like hanging back and supporting your heavies and assaults, then why not consider a gunboat raven?

RVN-3L Mini Gunboat 2x SRM4 / 3x MPL

It's got a fairly powerful punch for a small mech. Doesn't move as fast as the other RVN builds which use XL275 or XL295, but it does hit far harder. Doesn't have the range of dual ERLL builds, but if you are planning on shielding your fatties from evil LRM rain or randy lights looking for some unprotected rear CT, this bird might just be for you.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

sam wesson, on 21 February 2016 - 01:20 PM, said:

The first 3 runs I ran it stock. Then I set it up with 1 ER laser and Narc, tag, ECM & AMS. This has uses in maps with longer shots and low risk of Spiders. With shorter maps it's almost useless without any experience on that map. Somebody will walk up behind you.

So I added 1 med laser and the removed the XL 295 in favor of the XL 265, but without AMS. That was some help. Just not enough.

Right now I am using 2 Mlas, Srm2 with 2 tons of ammo, AMS, Narc, tag & beagle. Ran this yesterday. The loadout shows a little potential IF I can learn the maps. Had my first try at Terra therma. Got shot in the back. Just killed my teammate and shot me in the back. It was very quick.

Anyway, thanks for the input.
See ya.

Okay, a single ERLL is pretty weak. RVN-3L can do it in pairs, and REALLY well too, so may as well roll with that if you're about the LONG range stuff.

BUT, you're looking at supporting LRM mechs with spotting/etc, so let's skip the twin ERLL.

Roll with a single ERPPC. LOTS of range, no minimum, counters enemy ECM for a few seconds on a hit, higher damage.

NOW, the typical RVN-3L loadout runs twin ERLLs and ECM. That's 10 tons of weapon. With the ERPPC, we're at 7, so we have room to work with for helping out our LURMY pals. 3 tons, actually. Do you want to NARC? If so, move to XL 280 (still keeps you going as fast as an Arctic Cheetah), and install a NARC with 1 ton of ammo. Happy hunting.

But NARC is heavy. The RVN-3L IS heavily quirked for NARC (is it working right yet?), but that's okay. You can save three tons by swapping to a TAG in one of the remaining two E hard points (say, the lower RA point). We're back to three tons to work with. Not going to blow anyone's skirt up with that, though. Drop a MPL in the RT, maybe, and an extra DHS in there somewhere to crit-pad your engine in the side torso components.

Now, you're going to want that sensor range buff out of the BAP that I'm recommending you don't carry. Hmm. (Mind you, the BAP won't work to counter an enemy ECM if your mech already HAS its own ECM; you must turn your ECM to COUNTER, instead, so that benefit of BAP is off the table.) Save up a bunch of GXP and a few million CBills, and buy an Advanced Sensor Range module. This gives the same bonus to sensor range as does the BAP (25%). And yes, they DO stack, but it's RARE you're ever going to need that much sensor range, and we may yet see some iteration of 'Information Warfare' implemented. That takes zero tons and zero critical space, by the way, compared to the 1.5 tons and 2 critical slots of the BAP.

Short-range, you've got lots of options for combining different weapons to fill that 10-ton availability (11 if you tone down to XL 280, and like 12 with your current XL 265). At 10 tons, I'd go with TAG in the RT, 2x MPL in the RA, and an SRM-4 in the RT. If you want more punch, pop a second SRM-4 in the LA. You'll still have tonnage for reasonable ammo (which you better put in the legs or head), too. Should be a decent, if nothing special, close-range self-defender. It's not going to win a lot of brawl contests, mind you, but it can help itself out at close range anyhow, and that's what kinda matters. If you wanted a brawling Raven, you'd have dropped IRL cash on the Huginn.

TL;DR- Long range, go with single ERPPC or dual ERLL. Short, go with a combo of MPLs and TAG. Drop the BAP. Keep the ECM. XL 280 is the sweet spot for the -3L, IMO. TAG > NARC despite the quirks, unless you want to be pretty much helpless in a fight.

[GreyNovember]

3L can do three things well.

1.) 2ERLL. ( Or 3, if you're feeling really cheeky and are willing to go 225XL. )

2.) 3ML / 2 ASRM6 for an ECM surprise bomber.

3.) 3MPL/Narc.

Assume all these builds have an XL engine, Endo steel, and DHS.

[mailin]

You've already gotten a LOT of great advice so far. But here's a little more.

1) Reduce the armor on your head to around 6. Max your armor everywhere else. Shift your armor around so that you have about 4 on the rear side torsos and 6 on the rear center torso. You want most of your armor up front and you absolutely DO NOT EVER want to take a single point off of your legs.

2) If you run a sniper, get seismic sensor as soon as you can. This detects enemies within range when you are stopped. In a light you generally never want to stop, but if you find yourself stopping a lot you need a seismic.

3) For all mechs, put ams ammo in the head if you have any and room.

[Kyynele]

If you have fun role-playing your mech, you're doing it right.

If however you want to be a "good player" by the game's own terms, how you're doing is measured by the match end screen damage and kills. I'd only take NARC and TAG to group games where you know you will have a team full of LRM boats. In the solo queue, having 12 people in a team doing damage is always better than having 11 people doing damage and 1 person sort of helping the others to do some more damage. Even if it sometimes makes a decisive difference, it will more often put your team at a disadvantage. It will also put yourself at a disadvantage, because support roles pay really badly, both in C-Bills and XP. You risk your virtual life so that random people can get more damage, kills and money. It's only worth it if you find it really fun.

GreyNovembers list looks good, there's a sniper, a brawler and even the NARC build shouldn't be completely useless even if your team doesn't have any lurmers.

And as you can see from those suggestions, using every hardpoint on your mech is often not required to be efficient. In fact, piloting a light is typically so fast paced I'd say it's recommended to have a maximum of 2 different weapons systems so you can operate them easily while maneuvering around the map at high speeds.

[The Mecha Streisand]

Actually, strike that. Go XL275 if you're not swimming in CBills. It's the biggest engine that fits EVERY Raven. Only a tiny baby step slower than the XL280 I (Sister RAbbi) recommended above. Still plenty fast. Wouldn't run any Raven slower than that XL265, BTW.