42 replies to this topic

[TexAce]

Widowmaker1981, on 23 February 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:

I do think its a touch silly we have mechs accelerating a decelerating faster than it should be possible for their tonnage to do. The Banshee doesnt get agility quirks because it has a 400 engine cap so 'doesnt need them' - but the HGN gets to mount a 325 engine and have agility like it was mounting a 505 engine, and not pay the tonnage for it, while the Banshee pays more tonnage for the engine and arguably gets less out of it.

Im not raging about it, most of the mechs with these quirks need them due to severe hardpoint placement / type issues.. but do understand that these quirks are giving bonusues that would involve spending 20 tons on engine to achieve, even if it was possible at all.

Pretty much possible they will tone some of those down, now that they....work at all.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Widowmaker1981, on 23 February 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:

Yeah, straight line speed is really not that important. The reason i pile gigantic engines into my banshees is not because there is a world of difference between running at 65 or 70, its the acc/dec, twist speed and turn rate that i care about.

I don't give two flying fcks about the Dire losing 1kph. I refuse to drive it ever again because of the turn speed, twist speed/range and acc/dec it no longer has.

Yeah whales SERIOUSLY need some yaw angle and turn speed quirks but will NEVER get them because they are so well armed. It would make it pretty much the perfect 100 tonner. Still slow enough to get spanked, but I can at least point my guns a bit to the left or right.....

[Widowmaker1981]

xXBagheeraXx, on 23 February 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

Yeah whales SERIOUSLY need some yaw angle and turn speed quirks but will NEVER get them because they are so well armed. It would make it pretty much the perfect 100 tonner. Still slow enough to get spanked, but I can at least point my guns a bit to the left or right.....

Maybe it will get some quirks, after the Teddy Bear comes out and makes it obsolete. For now its the super gunbag of the game, but it will be unused once the Kodiak exists, because it can do all the non-joke dire builds with much more agility and speed.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 23 February 2016 - 07:38 AM.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 23 February 2016 - 05:15 AM, said:

Victors yes, but not Highlanders. 90 tons of Assault mech with max 325 engine rating should be sluggish. What you should be asking for is JJ buff for the Highlander, cause jumping is what the Highlander is known for, not accel/decel.
But of course, PGI being as incompetent as they are, simply cannot implement good JJs without poptarts abusing the crap out of it.

Why even fear the poptarts? Are the laservomit masters afraid?

Edited by Mystere, 23 February 2016 - 07:39 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

El Bandito, on 23 February 2016 - 05:15 AM, said:

Victors yes, but not Highlanders. 90 tons of Assault mech with max 325 engine rating should be sluggish. What you should be asking for is JJ buff for the Highlander, cause jumping is what the Highlander is known for, not accel/decel.
But of course, PGI being as incompetent as they are, simply cannot implement good JJs without poptarts abusing the crap out of it.

A huge JJ buff would be welcome. It doesn't have high mounts. It already sacrifices a lot versus the laser poke high mount meta lords. By the time the HGN climbs high enough to fire off a volley it has already been CT cored by the beambads.

[Gas Guzzler]

Widowmaker1981, on 23 February 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:

Yeah, straight line speed is really not that important. The reason i pile gigantic engines into my banshees is not because there is a world of difference between running at 65 or 70, its the acc/dec, twist speed and turn rate that i care about.

I don't give two flying fcks about the Dire losing 1kph. I refuse to drive it ever again because of the turn speed, twist speed/range and acc/dec it no longer has.

Ehh 1 kph isn't a big deal. But going from ~60 to 73 is big jump and mobility is very helpful in re-positioning frankly. How does the torso twist speed stack up? I think the Banshee still has the advantage there. Along with high hardpoints and enough hardpoints to boat lasers.

[Widowmaker1981]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 February 2016 - 07:40 AM, said:

Ehh 1 kph isn't a big deal. But going from ~60 to 73 is big jump and mobility is very helpful in re-positioning frankly. How does the torso twist speed stack up? I think the Banshee still has the advantage there. Along with high hardpoints and enough hardpoints to boat lasers.

The Heavy Metal with a 325: (base agility rating 3.6111)

Acc/Dec as if it had a 505 (agility rating 5.6)
Turns as if it had a 440 (agility rating 4.88)
Twists as if it had a 375 (agility rating 4.15)

For reference the Banshee with a 400 has an agility rating of 4.21, so it twists slightly faster than the HGN, and moves 10kph faster, but is considerably slower with acc/dec and turning, and is spending 14.5 more tons on its engine, assuming the HGN is running an XL (which you can do fine tbh if you want).

Overall, the Banshee is probably still a better mech, only because of hardpoint locations and types.

[Lily from animove]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 February 2016 - 07:19 AM, said:

Well, the Banshee can at least move 70+ KPH, where the Highlander is stuck at 63, which makes XL engines not worth it, bringing you down to ~58 with a STD 300 if you want significant firepower. Just because it gets bonus acceleration, its still not very mobile at that speed.


And yeah, the Executioner is just awesome.



Actaully the Prime adder has a bonus reverse speed quirk that the other CTs don't get.

yes, but now its 10%reverse vs 40% turn, while previously there were ontop differences in energy heat generation of 10% which totally made the Prime the ultimate choice everyitme you slapped energy ontop of the mech. And for other non Energy builds there was not a real advantage for not using a prime. Shcih ultimately made the prime the superior choice because you could reconfigure it how youw anted while tyring to configure a non prime into an energy based mech always meant being gimped in comparison.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

I wouldn't have minded them just increasing the poor Highlander's engine cap (IIC and original) and reducing the agility quirks a bit since it will never be the gun bag that the Mauler is, and we know Mark I JJs will never be like they were once upon a time.

[Gas Guzzler]

Lily from animove, on 23 February 2016 - 08:20 AM, said:

yes, but now its 10%reverse vs 40% turn, while previously there were ontop differences in energy heat generation of 10% which totally made the Prime the ultimate choice everyitme you slapped energy ontop of the mech. And for other non Energy builds there was not a real advantage for not using a prime. Shcih ultimately made the prime the superior choice because you could reconfigure it how youw anted while tyring to configure a non prime into an energy based mech always meant being gimped in comparison.

No, there is no trade off. The Prime CT is identical to the others, but gains a 10% reverse speed quirk. There is still no reason to take any other CT.

[FupDup]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 February 2016 - 08:25 AM, said:

No, there is no trade off. The Prime CT is identical to the others, but gains a 10% reverse speed quirk. There is still no reason to take any other CT.

Plus, the Prime also gives you a spacebucks booster if you have the Invasion variant...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FupDup, on 23 February 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:

Plus, the Prime also gives you a spacebucks booster if you have the Invasion variant...

So we should keep this quiet so I can run the best variant AND get space bucks, kinda like the BK-6.....

[FupDup]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 February 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

So we should keep this quiet so I can run the best variant AND get space bucks, kinda like the BK-6.....

After seeing their treatment of the Koshi, they would probably nerf the Prime instead of adding the quirk to the other variants.

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 February 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

So we should keep this quiet so I can run the best variant AND get space bucks, kinda like the BK-6.....

The BK 6 is great, unless you want the super alpha on the 6B.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 February 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

The BK 6 is great, unless you want the super alpha on the 6B.

Extra agility > one extra medium laser imo, now that the agility quirks are actually working.

[Mister Blastman]

Mystere, on 23 February 2016 - 07:38 AM, said:

Why even fear the poptarts? Are the laservomit masters afraid?

OH NO! 30 point alpha!

Versus what? 54 - 60 pt. wubstrikes and 42 - 58 pt. clamburns?

Sheesh.

[Kodyn]

I probably shouldn't say this, but pop-tarting isn't dead at all, just not many of us do it, and we don't do it in the mechs that used to be known for it..

You can very easily pop-tart in BJs, Cicadas, Hoppers, Quickdraws, even Crabs. You can do this with Peeps, ER Peeps, even lasers with short burn times if you know how to time your shots.

So if people want to bring pop-tarting back, just do it in other mechs besides Victor and HGN. It does work, and works well vs vomit. I don't do it to annoy people, I do it because I find it fun to try and time my jumps and shots like that, and it helps avoid some of the massive alphas, spreads damage well.

If only there was an Adder with JJ, I'd try it in that too....loved my Adder even before it got fixed, I expect I'm going to enjoy it even more now that it'll stop and go faster.

[Ultimax]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 February 2016 - 07:40 AM, said:

Ehh 1 kph isn't a big deal. But going from ~60 to 73 is big jump and mobility is very helpful in re-positioning frankly.

You're not comparing fair things here, you can't put a 400XL and just say "this mech has greater mobility" - it also has clearly worse survivability in pretty much every possible scenario outside of pure solo derpy pug matches where people have no clue.

So for the Banshee to move 73 KPH with a STD engine, we're looking at 59 tons of investment - which is obviously non-viable.

350? More reasonable, and now you are as slow as the HGN with a 325, except the HGN has another 200+ engine rating for free when it comes to maneuvering.

[Lily from animove]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 February 2016 - 08:25 AM, said:

No, there is no trade off. The Prime CT is identical to the others, but gains a 10% reverse speed quirk. There is still no reason to take any other CT.

Oh ****, yes I w as a bit confused by comparing old and new column. Wow yes then it's pretty much nonsense what they did. The pime is then surely just better. Wow GG PGI, what rubbish, one mech t rule them all, the others just to be wasted money for unlockign the skills..

[Chimera_]

Can confirm, Highlanders are pretty agile now. I already did pretty well in my 732B (Was my original easymode mech), but trying it again after a month of mothballing it feels pretty good. Still slow (mine only has an STD 300), but I was able to push up and brawl effectively vs heavies and mediums twirling around me.

It was actually kinda funny, I fought a grasshopper and warhammer who I think were under the impression HGNs were bad and completely incapable of twisting (probably read the forum posts from people who haven't used them in years)

They did not survive.