13 replies to this topic

[BlackRosePhoenix]

Trying to figure out what the cooldown is on my UAC/5 on a King Crab with -12% CD (module) and +5% cooldown (quirk). I do not have elite on the king crab yet so I dont have the other 5%.

So I wanna know how to do the math to figure out my cooldown right now and what it would be once I get elite skills on king crab.

Thanks for the help guys

[Not A Real RAbbi]

First, consider each % as a decimal. For instance the module (at level 5) is 12.5%, or 0.125 (or 1/8). The 5% quirk would be 0.05. If that's all, then add them up. You should get 0.175. Now, subtract that from 1.000. You should have 0.825 remaining. Multiply THAT by the listed normal cooldown time of the weapon, and BAM! The result is the new cooldown time, in seconds, of that weapon.

As far as I know, the various such bonuses (modules, quirks, and pilot skills) are ADDITIVE, not MULTIPLICATIVE, and as long as that is the case, the above is correct. More to the point...

CDN = CoolDown New (post-bonuses)
CD0 = CoolDown (listed, without bonuses)
BM = Bonus from Modules
BQ = Bonus from Quirks
BS = Bonus from pilot Skills

CDN = CD0 * (1 - (BM + BQ + BS))

Same for any facet, except that quirks/etc. that INCREASE something should be ADDED, not SUBTRACTED.

So, the 12.5% bonus to cooldown? Change that to a -12.5%, or -0.125. And so on. In which case...

AttN = Attribute (cooldown, range, heat, etc.) New (with bonuses, quirks, etc.)
Att0 = Attribute (original listed, without any quirks/etc.)
BM = Bonus from Modules
BQ = Bonus from Quirks
BS = Bonus from pilot Skills

And so the FINAL FORM (lol) of that simple little equation SHOULD be:

AttN = Att0 * (1 + (BM + BQ + BS))

Hurray for paying attention in sixth grade! (What a year, too! Chernobyl, Space Shuttle Challenger, Dad's first heart attack and open-heart surgery, my first spine injury, etc.)

[BlackRosePhoenix]

I don't know if I did something wrong or you did. Because with these equations my cd ends up longer then what it started out as....

[IraqiWalker]

BlackRosePhoenix, on 23 February 2016 - 08:50 PM, said:

Trying to figure out what the cooldown is on my UAC/5 on a King Crab with -12% CD (module) and +5% cooldown (quirk). I do not have elite on the king crab yet so I dont have the other 5%.

So I wanna know how to do the math to figure out my cooldown right now and what it would be once I get elite skills on king crab.

Thanks for the help guys

That's a 17% reduction to your Cooldown time. it's simple reduction.1.66 x 0.17 = 0.2822, 1.66 - 0.2822 = 1.3778 is your cooldown now, down from 1.66.

[Nyuuu]

https://www.reddit.c...alk_about_uacs/
Has all the calculations and numbers you need

[IraqiWalker]

Nyuuu, on 23 February 2016 - 10:44 PM, said:

https://www.reddit.c...alk_about_uacs/
Has all the calculations and numbers you need

Isn't that just about jam chance? We're dealing with Cooldown here, or did I miss something?

[Morggo]

I just put my build and skill levels into Li Song builder for that mech.. the status for the weapon and other stuff update when you reclick on the item for modules and it also factors in quirks...

(I did much poorer in sixth grade .... )

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Don't sweat the sixth grade thing. I made five trips to Math Field Day (5, 6, 8, 9, and 12 grades), but ended up getting a degree in a foreign language. Shows what my guidance counselors know!

@OP: Remember, when doing the maths, that anything that DECREASES something (cooldown time, heat, beam duration) should be added as a NEGATIVE number (or subtracted, though all subtraction is is adding a negative number with the same magnitude), and anything that INCREASES (range, rate of fire) should be added as a positive number.

For instance, with weapon cooldown, you will LOSE cooldown time (which is GOOD) with that module and with that quirk. Consider some of the mechs that have a +10% Energy Range quirk, and a weapon range module for the same. You'd ADD 0.1 to the multiplier for the quirk, and 0.1 for the module, to get a 1.2 multiplier for the weapon range in that mech. If it's, say, a medium laser (IS tech), then you take the 270 meter base range, multiply by 1.2, and wind up with 324 meters for its new optimal range on THAT mech with THAT module and THAT quirk. Etc. Whereas, if our fictional mech also had, say, a -10% energy weapon cooldown and a level 5 cooldown module for those same medium lasers, we'd subtract (or add the negative, w/e, same thing) 0.1 for the quirk and 0.125 for the cooldown, to arrive at a multiplier of 0.775. Multiply THAT by the IS ML's base cooldown time of 3 seconds, and you get 2.325 seconds cooldown.

Say you have a 10% energy weapon heat quirk on your mech. You want to run some sort of PPCs on it. A regular PPC does 10 heat per shot, so you'd be left with 9 after quirk (10 * (1 + (-0.1 + 0 + 0)) = 9.0). If you wanted to go ERPPC, then you'd get 13.5 heat per shot (15 * (1 + (-0.1 + 0 + 0)) = 13.5). Quick check on the arithmetic? 15 / 10 = 1.5, 13.5 / 9 = 1.5, so we're good to go.

Anyhow, MOST quirks aren't that much to write home about. A buff of 10% or less isn't critical. Some mechs, on the other hand, have some pretty wild buffs. Consider the BJ-1DC's generic ballistic weapon cooldown buff. It gets a 25% reduction in the cooldown time of ANY/EVERY ballistic weapon. Consider, then, putting a Gauss rifle on it (I certainly do). Gauss cooldown was recently nerfed to 5.5 seconds (from 4.0), then mini-buffed back to 5.0 seconds. So, without a module or the ELITE skill, the cooldown of a Gauss Rifle on a BJ-1DC is (5.0 * (1 + (-0.25 + 0 + 0)) = 3.75). That's already faster than the original pre-nerf cooldown, and you can still add another 12.5% decrease to cooldown time with a module! That gets even SCARIER! (5.0 * (1 + (-0.25 + -0.125 + 0)) = 3.125) Throw in the ELITE skill and you're hovering around the even 3-second mark, which means about a 60-something percent increase in that weapon's DPS. Considering it's all PPFLD, and its heat output is pretty negligible, that is a VICIOUS single-Gauss medium POTENTIALLY from day 1 (since it does a 3-1/8 second Gauss cooldown with just quirks and a module, which almost synchs up with the unquirked medium lasers you should carry to back it up).

Ah, ARITHMETIC! I SO prefer this over derivatives of multivariable functions!

[Koniving]

BlackRosePhoenix, on 23 February 2016 - 08:50 PM, said:

Trying to figure out what the cooldown is on my UAC/5 on a King Crab with -12% CD (module) and +5% cooldown (quirk). I do not have elite on the king crab yet so I dont have the other 5%.

So I wanna know how to do the math to figure out my cooldown right now and what it would be once I get elite skills on king crab.

Thanks for the help guys

First off "+" cooldown is a bad thing. Second while it is a positive quirk, the 5% on the King Crab is a -5%.

Now, it's base value + or - the total percentage of the alteration.

-5%
+ -12%
= -17%
Base 1.66s cooldown -17%.
Plug it into your windows calculator exactly as 1.66 -17% =.
The result: 1.66-17% = 1.3778.

Your cooldown is 1.3778 for "Hold down" no jam fire.
Your cooldown is 1.3778 /2 or 0.6889 seconds for "Ultra" jam-risk fire.

Once elited:
1.66 -(5 + 12 + Current Fast Fire rate)% = Whatever it is (too lazy to open the game up today).

(If you had this for a Clan Ultra AC/5, you would also have to 'add in' the burst time and count after you find out the cooldown.)
Clan Ultra AC/5 with -17% cooldown.
1.66 - 17% = 1.3778 + (Burst delay 0.13s between shots 1 and 2) = 1.5078 for hold down no jam fire.
1.66 - 17% = 1.3778/2 + (Burst delay 0.13s) = 0.8189 seconds between 'double tap' ultra fire.

o.O;

[Koniving]

Sister RAbbi, on 23 February 2016 - 09:12 PM, said:

CDN = CD0 * (1 - (BM + BQ + BS))
AttN = Att0 * (1 + (BM + BQ + BS))

I believe trying to break them into decimals might have overcomplicated it. The 1- or 1+... It doesn't do anything if you interpret it as multiply parenthesis within parenthesis. And if interpreted as '1 minus (this number)' you change the answer entirely from the actual digits. Either way after you take in the additional *, it comes out incorrect.

A simpler method:
CDN = CD0 + (BM + BQ + BS)%
UAC/5 New Cooldown = Cooldown 1.66 + (-5 -12 - 0)%
1.3778 = 1.66 + -17%
1.3778 = 1.66 - 17% (OR 0.2822)

AttN = Att0 +/- (BM +/- BQ +/- BS)%

The second line's +/- as in "+ or - as applicable."

Example
EnergyHeatGenerationNew = EHG 7 +/- (BM 0 - BQ +6 - BS -10)%
6.72 = 7 - 4%.
(Made up, assumes the module isn't in use, the quirk has a punishing factor of 6% more heat and the skill cuts the heat back by 10% leaving you with -4% heat off of the base number.)

Edited by Koniving, 24 February 2016 - 09:59 AM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Koniving, on 24 February 2016 - 09:34 AM, said:

Your bad step here was the use of " * ".
It is simply subtraction of the total number of bonuses from the base cooldown. "Additive, not multiplicative" as you said.

Same result. Different way of showing it.

Also, just noticed that sig of yours. CONGRATULATIONS!

[Koniving]

Sister RAbbi, on 24 February 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

Same result. Different way of showing it.

Also, just noticed that sig of yours. CONGRATULATIONS!

Thank you.

Had to redefine my explanation a little bit but I'll retry it.

CDN = CD0 * (1 - (BM + BQ + BS))
CDN = 1.66 * (1 - (0.12 + 0.5 + 0))
CDN = 1.66 * (1 - (0.17))
CDN = 1.66 * (0.83)
1.3778 = 1.66 * 0.83.

Okay I read it and did it correctly this time.
But holy crap that was a LOT more complicated than it had to be.
Just 1.66 - the tally of percentages on the windows calculator.

Edited by Koniving, 24 February 2016 - 10:00 AM.

[Nyuuu]

IraqiWalker, on 23 February 2016 - 11:13 PM, said:

Isn't that just about jam chance? We're dealing with Cooldown here, or did I miss something?

Quote

As a sanity check, I also compared the JM6-A DPS to the King Crab DPS and it was EXACTLY 10% higher. That means the cumulative 10% cooldown bonus on the JM6-A is working perfectly as intended.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

This math doesn't check out entirely correctly though. Does anyone remember B33f's 1000% Quickdraw video?

2 LRM20s emptied out 900 missiles in about 3-3.5 seconds (and then melted down the mech due to heat). If the 'mech CD quirks worked on the same scale as the module CD Time -% bonus, then the total cooldown time on the CD0 * (1 - sum of all bonuses) would be negative. Even assuming PGI servers would round that up to 0 seconds, there is still some time in firing the missiles. They don't all fly out at the same instant.

My best guess at the equation so far is that the server progresses cooldown in 'units per tick', and the mech cooldown % bonus increases the number of units gained per tick. Each weapon has a number of 'units' it needs to gain before it can refire again, and the module -% bonus reduces this number of 'units' it needs to gain. If this is the case, it resolves the 1000% cooldown case.

Edited by Fox With A Shotgun, 25 February 2016 - 06:01 PM.