22 replies to this topic

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

A big shout out to the community. I have been pushing Russ and asking the question " Can we get a Timberwolf hero? " the last 3 or 4 town halls, since spring of last year. I tried guys I really did. Sean Lang is with me and repeats the question every town hall, its hilarious. Russ says its coming soon, and they are worried about balancing a hero clan omni, with the current game rules.

Well how about this : all clan heros must keep the omni pods they come with, with the exception of 1. Let us change 1 omnipod on a clan hero, but make sure they have amazing hardpoints and are worth the cash we put out. Add ecm. add ammo quirks. add JJ quirks. something that makes them truly unique over there invasion counterparts. Create something new to make it worth our $$$$$$$.

Thoughts? opinions?

Edited by Alwrath, 26 February 2016 - 09:30 PM.

[FupDup]

Is there some kind of law of physics that demands a new post about Clan hero mechs every other week or something? It gets old after a while...


Anyways...

Only changing one pod kind of defeats the point of an Omnimech to begin with. Might as well just make it a Battlemech.

But then if we let them equip any pod combination, they could easily be stronger than their C-Bill counterparts if at least one hero pod beats the equivalent C-Bill pod.

This is why it's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. For Battlemechs, their heroes are "balanced" by the fact that their hardpoints aren't changeable, thus you have to accept both the strengths and the weaknesses of the hardpoint layout. But with Omnis, you can just swap out the bad hardpoints for good hardpoints.


Case study: Summoner-M "Malthus"

Stock hardpoints: 1E right arm, 1B left arm, 1M + 1E left torso

Analysis: Both arms and the right torso are pretty mediocre. However, the left torso pod is clearly the best LT pod that the Summoner has because of adding an extra energy on top of the SMN-Prime, SMN-B, or SMN-C left torso. The player who buys this hero can then equip whichever arms and right torso they wish, and they will have exclusive access to a Summoner that is a bit stronger than C-Bill Summoners.

This isn't the best example because even then the Malthus would still be outclassed by things like the Mad Cat, but it should hopefully illustrate the balancing problem with hero Omnis.

Edited by FupDup, 26 February 2016 - 09:35 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

They could say that the Hero Timberwolf is a BattleMech conversion, stuck with weapon hard-points and other pods it has and, in exchange, it can swap engines and endo and ferro.

Preventing it from being OP will be entirely up to hard-points and placement.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

FupDup, on 26 February 2016 - 09:35 PM, said:

Is there some kind of law of physics that demands a new post about Clan hero mechs every other week or something? It gets old after a while...


Anyways...

Only changing one pod kind of defeats the point of an Omnimech to begin with. Might as well just make it a Battlemech.

But then if we let them equip any pod combination, they could easily be stronger than their C-Bill counterparts if at least one hero pod beats the equivalent C-Bill pod.

This is why it's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. For Battlemechs, their heroes are "balanced" by the fact that their hardpoints aren't changeable, thus you have to accept both the strengths and the weaknesses of the hardpoint layout. But with Omnis, you can just swap out the bad hardpoints for good hardpoints.


Case study: Summoner-M "Malthus"

Stock hardpoints: 1E right arm, 1B left arm, 1M + 1E left torso

Analysis: Both arms and the right torso are pretty mediocre. However, the left torso pod is clearly the best LT pod that the Summoner has because of adding an extra energy on top of the SMN-Prime, SMN-B, or SMN-C left torso. The player who buys this hero can then equip whichever arms and right torso they wish, and they will have exclusive access to a Summoner that is a bit stronger than C-Bill Summoners.

This isn't the best example because even then the Malthus would still be outclassed by things like the Mad Cat, but it should hopefully illustrate the balancing problem with hero Omnis.

Valid points thats why I offered the 1 omni swappable pod. Hopefully we can generate some ideas for Russ and the mechwarrior online team to implement and test the best solution to introduce clan heros. Also, I hope you accept my apology from my other forum thread, I was a ****.

[SteelMantis]

I'm not too crazy about having hero clan mechs. I prefer heroes to be slightly weaker than standard mechs to keep the pay to win side the of game at a minimum. Which as others have already said would be difficult with omni-pods.

I would rather have some (S)* versions of existing clan mechs available for MC.

*of course with 30% C-bill boost

[El Bandito]

Just give the Hero Timbie dual ballistics on one or both torsi. As Clan ballistics are not very meta, I doubt it can be considered P2W.

[Soulos]

Why not just make the money bonus on the omni's? With a slightly larger bonus on the CT? Fits with what we got and just seems like fun to me.... Could make a lighter Cbill verson with JJ on the S or more money on the Hero.

*edit spelling

Edited by Soulos, 26 February 2016 - 10:46 PM.

[Tristan Winter]

Why didn't you push for Nicholai Malthus' Summoner with centered cockpit instead? I am disappoint.

[KuroNyra]

This forum need more Clan Hero Mech!

Also: not sur about that.

But hey. People made there Invasion variant basicly hero like version. Why the hell not.

[Zolaz]

If Clan Hero mechs are pay to win ... why arent the current (I) mechs not pay to win? Wouldnt they be the same?

[TheArisen]

What if, like quirks, the cbill bonus decreases depending on how many of the heroes pods you have equipped?

[Y E O N N E]

To PGI, Hero 'Mechs are about more than just a 30% C-bill boost. Russ wants a possible Hero Timberwolf to be played as envisioned, so it's not enough to just attach the C-bill bonus to the pods.

[Davegt27]

It should be just like the other hero Mechs

No big deal, my other hero Mechs suck so why shouldn’t the TW hero be any different

You get a fancy paint job CB bonus that’s it

[Seal Farmer]

Davegt27, on 27 February 2016 - 01:03 AM, said:

It should be just like the other hero Mechs

No big deal, my other hero Mechs suck so why shouldn’t the TW hero be any different

You get a fancy paint job CB bonus that’s it

Agree with this guy. IS heroes are all poor to mediocre so the Clan heroes need to be pretty much the worst of the lot too. Their saving point should only be that they can earn 30% cbills more, thats it.

[FupDup]

TheArisen, on 26 February 2016 - 11:43 PM, said:

What if, like quirks, the cbill bonus decreases depending on how many of the heroes pods you have equipped?

That doesn't affect the mech's combat performance, so it wouldn't solve potential balancing issues. C-Bill boosters are irrelevant to mech balance.

Zolaz, on 26 February 2016 - 11:01 PM, said:

If Clan Hero mechs are pay to win ... why arent the current (I) mechs not pay to win? Wouldnt they be the same?

The Invasion mechs have identical combat performance as their Prime counterparts. Their only differences are cosmetic and convenience (money booster). But when it comes to killing enemy mechs and winning the game for your team, a C-Bill Prime mech is 100% identical to an Invasion mech. Invasion mechs are not more powerful in any way.

Hero mechs, though, would have different combat performance that is only available for real-money, which may either be superior or inferior depending on the case (e.g. scroll to my first post to see the analysis of a superior hero Summoner).

Edited by FupDup, 27 February 2016 - 08:56 AM.

[Robot Kenshiro]

Just make it have locked pods. I know its an omni but...being a "hero" why would you need to make em any different. Give good hard points. Cbill bonus. Paint job. Few positive and negatice quirks. I say negative cos well... cant have that p2w hero timby running around now can we... but meh. P2w doesnt exist in this game. All mechs are destroyable. Theres no mech that has +50% armor. Now thats p2w.

[Zerberus]

Want a clan hero? Buy an Invasion Prime model, problem solved.

Seriously, where would the point be n an "hero" omnimech other than the 30% c-bill bonus said invasion mechs already have? Special Omnipods? The P2W screaming will be deafening if those pods aren´t available for everyone.

Other than the paintjob and bonus, where´s the point?

Or only allow Battlemechs ars hero mechs. A possible middle ground would be that any "omni-hero" would not be a true omnimech, but be severely limited in terms of what can be swapped out, possibly to the point of everything but the weapons themselves being hardwired.

[Robot Kenshiro]

Or what Zerberus said^^^^^^^

[Ted Wayz]

Is Hero really a clan concept? If you were good it just meant you were cloned more than others. Not sure the concept applies given that all clan pilots were the best of the best and given the whole point of clan mechs was versatility.

[LegendaryArticuno]

We already have a Madcat hero... it's called the Madcat C(S)