14 replies to this topic

[Greyhart]

Looking at a lot of the option on the mech lab, Endo and FF adn single or double HS.

Are these really options or just upgrades that have to be paid for.

seem double HS and endo are as a general rule no brainers. There's little downside to not taking them.

FF appears to be used only if tonnage is at an absolute premium.

Should They be adjust to make the alternative a viable choice?

If so how would you go about it?

[Inveramsay]

Double heat sinks without a doubt. Endo nearly always but ff mainly on lights and some mediums.

[Wildstreak]

Have you built Mechs using third party tools like Smurfy's and Li's Mechlab?
Allows you to experiment without spending money in game to see how these choices affect your build.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

Well, they are already choices, just not meaningful choices.

To make the choice more meaningful, Standard structure should receive a durability buff to structure. Similarly, standard armor should receive a durability buff to armor.

This would help to drive the contrast between builds that focus on freeing weight for more weapons/mobility and those that focus on being more durable tanks.

It would also help to ease the absurd reliance on Quirks as a primary balancing mechanism. This is because many Clan 'Mechs would opt for ES/FF because the Clan version takes less critical slots. Thus, IS 'Mechs would naturally tend toward the tankier without any need for durability Quirks.

[Raggedyman]

Wildstreak, on 26 February 2016 - 04:10 AM, said:

Have you built Mechs using third party tools like Smurfy's and Li's Mechlab?
Allows you to experiment without spending money in game to see how these choices affect your build.

Those help, but I can never get a real feel for what a new set up is like until I've driven it around for a bit.

If there was a loadout simulator in the game that would be super tasty

[Sjorpha]

Yeah DHS and Endo are currently not well balanced against standard structure and SHS. Not meaningful choices and bad design.

Ferro is sometimes a meaningful choice, as in build the mech with endo and XL or with endo+ferro and standard can be a choice. But most of the time it's a no brainer whether to take ferro or not on a particular mech.

Would be nice if they were balanced and difficult choices at all times, but I doubt it will be changed. Too much loreheads wanting the game to simulate the BT tech race rather than have all choices balanced.

[Intrepid]

Repair & Rearm

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Intrepid, on 26 February 2016 - 04:48 AM, said:

Repair & Rearm

Yeah penalize the newer players who don't have a billion cbills banked.

[KodiakGW]

Raggedyman, on 26 February 2016 - 04:37 AM, said:

Those help, but I can never get a real feel for what a new set up is like until I've driven it around for a bit.

If there was a loadout simulator in the game that would be super tasty

This. Would be nice to take a customized mech into Testing Grounds before committing to a purchase. I'm talking the ones available in the store for CBills and MC. The ones you can customize in the mech lab part of the store.

[El Bandito]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 26 February 2016 - 07:01 AM, said:

Yeah penalize the newer players who don't have a billion cbills banked.

Perhaps introduce it to CW queue? Allow unit coffers to fix the broken mechs, or hire techs etc... and give people more incentive to play as Loyalists.

[process]

Double heatsinks are absolutely an upgrade. Endo usually is, except for heavier mechs where critical slots become more valuable, or with XL engines. Ferro only in a few cases, usually lights, where you're trying to squeeze in the last bit of tonnage.

I don't have a major problem with the Endo or Ferro mechanics for now. It might be more interesting to have some alternate benefits to Ferro since it's more prevalent in stock builds, but I'm not sure that's necessary.

I'd like to see all internal heatsinks be counted as doubles, which instantly makes stock mech configurations significantly more workable, and makes single heatsinks another tonnage vs crit slot trade mechanic. It would be especially useful for heavier mechs so they can fit heatsinks where they couldn't usually: legs, CT, ST with AC20s, etc.

Edited by process, 26 February 2016 - 08:04 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 26 February 2016 - 07:01 AM, said:

Yeah penalize the newer players who don't have a billion cbills banked.

That only happens if done wrong. If done right, it helps to level the playing field, by making it increasingly expensive to gather wealth. But it's all a moot point now anyway. MWO is already so old that people have a billion c-bills, so R&R would have no purpose right now, unless limited to CW with a separate economy for CW.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Greyhart, on 26 February 2016 - 04:00 AM, said:

Looking at a lot of the option on the mech lab, Endo and FF adn single or double HS.

Are these really options or just upgrades that have to be paid for.

seem double HS and endo are as a general rule no brainers. There's little downside to not taking them.

FF appears to be used only if tonnage is at an absolute premium.

Should They be adjust to make the alternative a viable choice?

If so how would you go about it?

There are a handful of niche builds where SHS are better than DHS. Primarly slow or XL engine assault mech energy boats.

To expand the role of SHS I'd probably give them a bit more heat capacity and either make the first 10 heat sinks count as true dubs or count as single heat sinks for both types.

Endo and Ferro are simple to balance.

IS Ferro should allow you to mount the same tonnage of armor as you can STD armor. Is it worth giving up the 2-5 tons from endo for more armor? That you might actually have to debate which you'd prefer indicates that they'll be somewhat better balanced.

I would also recommend giving STD structure a structure bonus and allow IS endo to keep 1/3 to 1/2 of that bonus while the 7 slot clan endo wouldn't get any of it. Some of the more general IS structure quirks could then be removed.

To balance clan FF and clan STD armor I'd allow clan mechs with STD armor to mount more armor so you have to ask do I want the 3-4 tons of weapons, heat sinks etc or more armor on my battlemech. Additionally it removes the handicap on omnimechs that don't have both weight saving techs mounted by default and makes those choices a design decision instead of them cheaping out..

[Mead]

Been here from the beginning, never even had 100M at one time. Not everyone has the ultrabank.

But that's beside the point. R&R is an interesting concept for a campaign-style game. This is not one of those.

[process]

Mead, on 26 February 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

Been here from the beginning, never even had 100M at one time. Not everyone has the ultrabank.

But that's beside the point. R&R is an interesting concept for a campaign-style game. This is not one of those.

Ditto. For an instant-action multiplayer game, R&R is just a tax on fun.