26 replies to this topic

[Jeffrey Wilder]

A single BAP/CAP will break a single enemy ECM within it's range. What's the point of an ECM mech carrying a BAP/CAP if it doesn't break an enemy's ECM?

[Cyborne Elemental]

There is no reason to do it, at least didn't used to be.

The only gain you get is quicker paperdoll readouts, and a bit of sensor range.

With the ECM range nerf, countering another ECM mech got much harder.

They probably need to figure out how to allow counter mode to get better range with CAP/BAP

[Divine Retribution]

There's still detecting shut down mechs at close range, increased target info gathering, and increased targeting range. In practice ECM mechs don't usually carry BAP/CAP though, except maybe ECM LRM boats that are trying to get their own locks at long range.

Edited by Divine Retribution, 26 February 2016 - 03:56 AM.

[El Bandito]

Meh, not even the majority of non-ECM mechs carry BAP/CAP in the first place, unless one is boating LRMs. BAP/CAP are very under-utilized pieces of equipment.

[Wolfways]

El Bandito, on 26 February 2016 - 03:57 AM, said:

Meh, not even the majority of non-ECM mechs carry BAP/CAP in the first place, unless one is boating LRMs. BAP/CAP are very under-utilized pieces of equipment.

I have both on my RVN-3L, but it comes with them stock.
What pgi need to do is fix GECM so it doesn't have the stealth-mode crap. Dropping the range did nothing but give players more reason to run off by themselves instead of using it to protect their teammates.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I run BAP/CAP religiously, just not on ECM mechs because its pointless as you don't gain the range counter benefit.

[Mizore]

Well, almost all my ECM-scouts carry BAP for the increased sensor range, but that's the only reason for a ECM Mech to equip a BAP.
And yes, it's really annoying that you have only the ECM-counter-range instead of the BAP-counter-range, but hey, that's the PGI way of balancing things... you don't need to understand their logic

All the other bonuses of a BAP are not really usefull.
(Honestly, how often do you need it to detect a shutdown mech? Once per 1000 games?)

[Galenit]

El Bandito, on 26 February 2016 - 03:57 AM, said:

Meh, not even the majority of non-ECM mechs carry BAP/CAP in the first place, unless one is boating LRMs. BAP/CAP are very under-utilized pieces of equipment.

On a heavy mech i try to take some team utility, at least a ams or bap/cap, maybe both.
On a 100 ton mech, i try to take both.

Its like having 1/2 radarrange module, 1/2 targetreadoutmodule and 1/2 ecm in one package without a module slot but for 1/1.5 tons. Its like taking a third module with only 2 slots..

But for ecm mechs?
If bap would increase the ecm-countermode to bap-counterrange, i would take it.

Edited by Galenit, 26 February 2016 - 04:35 AM.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

BAP/CAP should simply be the counter for ECM and should use hardpoints tomlimit which 'Mechs can carry it.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__5034210

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

Wolfways, on 26 February 2016 - 04:06 AM, said:

I have both on my RVN-3L, but it comes with them stock.
What pgi need to do is fix GECM so it doesn't have the stealth-mode crap. Dropping the range did nothing but give players more reason to run off by themselves instead of using it to protect their teammates.

Guardian ECM and Clan ECM should have stealth. But it should be limited to the 'Mech carrying it. Angel ECM should provide the bubble, at the cost of slots and tonnage, of course!

Let BAP/CAP counter GECM/CECM and Bloodhound AP counter AECM.

Edited by Brandarr Gunnarson, 26 February 2016 - 05:02 AM.

[Wolfways]

Brandarr Gunnarson, on 26 February 2016 - 04:59 AM, said:

Guardian ECM and Clan ECM should have stealth. But it should be limited to the 'Mech carrying it. Angel ECM should provide the bubble, at the cost of slots and tonnage, of course!

Let BAP/CAP counter GECM/CECM and Bloodhound AP counter AECM.

No, it should only hide the targets loadout and paperdoll. It should not hide the doritos or stop lock-on weapons.

Edited by Wolfways, 26 February 2016 - 05:09 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Jeffrey Wilder, on 26 February 2016 - 03:47 AM, said:

A single BAP/CAP will break a single enemy ECM within it's range. What's the point of an ECM mech carrying a BAP/CAP if it doesn't break an enemy's ECM?

There isnt one. If you have ECM, don't bring BAP/CAP.

LOL, Sorry Mist Lynx. That hardlocked CRAP in your head is even more annoying now, isnt it? PGI won't remove it though, Mist Lynx OP, clearly.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

Wolfways, on 26 February 2016 - 05:09 AM, said:

No, it should only hide the targets loadout and paperdoll. It should not hide the doritos or stop lock-on weapons.

I could get behind that. I was just going for the simple, elegant solution.

If that were the function than it would be an easy thing to introduce AECM as the stealth version. (Especially since that's what it is!)

Bloodhound still has to counter it, though, as "counter" has to top the chain of checks and balances.

[Variant1]

Wolfways, on 26 February 2016 - 04:06 AM, said:

What pgi need to do is fix GECM so it doesn't have the stealth-mode crap. Dropping the range did nothing but give players more reason to run off by themselves instead of using it to protect their teammates.

No they dont need to fix 'stealthmode' because its the only thing keeping lrms in check from becoming anymore cheesy

Widowmaker1981, on 26 February 2016 - 05:10 AM, said:

LOL, Sorry Mist Lynx. That hardlocked CRAP in your head is even more annoying now, isnt it? PGI won't remove it though, Mist Lynx OP, clearly.

That cap is not useless on the mist lynx, the extra range as well as being to counter an ecm is actually very useful.

Wolfways, on 26 February 2016 - 05:09 AM, said:

No, it should only hide the targets loadout and paperdoll. It should not hide the doritos or stop lock-on weapons.

admit you want your lrms to be op

Edited by Variant1, 26 February 2016 - 06:36 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Brandarr Gunnarson, on 26 February 2016 - 05:22 AM, said:

I could get behind that. I was just going for the simple, elegant solution.

If that were the function than it would be an easy thing to introduce AECM as the stealth version. (Especially since that's what it is!)

Bloodhound still has to counter it, though, as "counter" has to top the chain of checks and balances.

So, just replace the current ECM with AECM at what cost to the Mech and players? Keep ECM at 1 Slot and no weight cost (restricted by chassis) like now and then ADD AECM which would cost what exactly? Perhaps 2t and 3 slots... or 3t for 3 slots. The stealth abilities of current ECM carriers are already whined about incessantly right?

Thus, I am not seeing how replacing something, that is heavily griped about in its current state, with something the same but may have weight and or more slot requirement, unless ALL Mechs have access? Is that where this is going...ALL MECHS can have stealth? LOL!

Edited by Almond Brown, 26 February 2016 - 07:45 AM.

[Damia Savon]

Variant1, on 26 February 2016 - 06:35 AM, said:

No they dont need to fix 'stealthmode' because its the only thing keeping lrms in check from becoming anymore cheesy


That cap is not useless on the mist lynx, the extra range as well as being to counter an ecm is actually very useful.


admit you want your lrms to be op

I'd prefer lrms to be a proper weapon system instead of the ultranerfed cr*p we have now thanks to whiners like you. I bet you think you got mad skillz bro cause you can laser vomit an alpha. Wheee...click to win indeed.

[Mcgral18]

Adjust the "targetingfactor" which is the Magic Jesus Field on the Jesus Box.

Move it from 0.25 to 0.5, that is half nominal sensor range instead of quarter. 400M base instead of 200M.
Still useful at range, but doesn't kill LRMs (without the 2.5 ton tax) as a weapon system.
Keep the same double lock time, cancelling Artemis and other stats.

[jss78]

As noted, you still get all the other BAP benefits.

I run BAP on some mechs which have considerable pin-point firepower out to 800-1000 m, and that's mainly for the sensor range boost. If the target has a component you can hit for a quick kill, that information can be really useful.

A side benefit is that BAP can be a decent money maker. Consider a situation on some wide open maps where you're in your team's deathball, and spot each enemy before your team mates. After the recent c-bill reward adjustment, Scouting is now 3000 c-bills a piece. You can rack up a good number of those in some games.

[Wolfways]

Variant1, on 26 February 2016 - 06:35 AM, said:

admit you want your lrms to be op

lol other than having them drop straight down on the target it isn't possible to make them op. Once you learn to play you will pretty much be able to forget they exist.

What I want is for GECM to do what it is supposed to do, not what pgi came up with while drunk.

Edited by Wolfways, 26 February 2016 - 01:34 PM.

[OznerpaG]

well the clan TC Mk1 has the same target info data speed as the CAP so outside of breaking ECM (which to me is kinda pointless) and extra detect range (again, whatever, i can use a module to do that if i REALLY want it) it's always a waste of time to carry over the TC

actually i just did a check - both the BAP/CAP say it speeds up targeting data, but it doesn't list a bonus which may mean it doesn't even do that