32 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Lukoi Banacek, on 27 February 2016 - 03:27 PM, said:

As others have noted, it's not a side-grade, it's an overall buff.

They just reduced quirks on IS, probably should let that play out before another wide-sweeping swath of changes universally to Clan weapons. Game is much closer in balance right now....what "problem" exists here that needs fixing?

The problem is that it still takes an ISLL to compete with a Clan ERML because IS ML are terrible. If they had left IS ML keep their sometimes 350-365 meter-enabling quirks, it would be a lot more even since the two would have roughly equivalent max-ranges and the improved DPS and DPH on the ISML compensates for the better raw damage on the C-ERML.

If it weren't for these light-weight weapons being mediocre against the competition, we could leave off the heat-gen quirks since it would now be not-terrible to bring said lighter weapons and more heat-sinks to cool them.

But the solution posed in this thread is not the right way to solve that shortcoming.

[Monkey Lover]

Andi Nagasia, on 27 February 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

I tried to Keep all Lasers DPS & DPH the same if not make them Closer to what IS has,


,

One of the issues is you can't change anything without large effects on balance. If people just hate long duration I'm all for shorting it to make them happy.

You can't compare IS lasers to Clan lasers just by DPS HPS as you don't take into account range slots and weight. Even HPS is hard to compare because most clan weapons basically come with free heatsinks because of the weight.

[SplashDown]

If it gives me the clan advantage i so richly deserve and makes IS players cry then im all for it =)

[sycocys]

Monkey Lover, on 27 February 2016 - 02:08 PM, said:

.1 second would give you about half point of dmg. Your cooldown would be fast, due to this you basically be making a laser machine gun. Might be fun but would require lots of face time and you would die faster.

What I would worry about more is very long duration(30 seconds). With long cooldown(minutes) There would have to be some limit.

.1 Duration would put all those ticks into .1 seconds. Minus duration doesn't reduce the amount of damage done, just the amount of time it takes for lasers to burn their full damage.

[Andi Nagasia]

Listen im not Saying in anyway this should go Live Like Tomorrow,
im saying i would like a Public Test to see what happens to see if it works,
Also yes Duration is going down, but DPS is going down as well,

im also reworking the Stats to Better Show Changes,

[Hillslam]

OP did not present:

Weight
Slots
interchangeable hardpoints thru Omnipod system
overall more hardpoints on average in clan mechs

Stats are therefore incomplete and do not tell the whole balance story.

Short answer: No.

Also - for all the quirk b*tching, people always forgot to mention the targeting computers which can be put on any clan mech and which can pump up any mechs range, cooldown and speed to levels beyond most IS (except for the 1 or 2 most egregious quirked models), IS CC is suck in comparison.

[Andi Nagasia]

Hillslam, on 27 February 2016 - 07:22 PM, said:

OP did not present:

Weight
Slots
interchangeable hardpoints thru Omnipod system
overall more hardpoints on average in clan mechs

Stats are therefore incomplete and do not tell the whole balance story.

Short answer: No.

Also - for all the quirk b*tching, people always forgot to mention the targeting computers which can be put on any clan mech and which can pump up any mechs range, cooldown and speed to levels beyond most IS (except for the 1 or 2 most egregious quirked models), IS CC is suck in comparison.

ok im sorry,
here let me take care of that for you,
SL & C-ERSL = 0.5Tons & 1Slot(Both Identical)
SPL & C-SPL = 1.0Tons & 1Slot(Both Identical)

ML & C-ERML = 1.0Tons & 1Slot(Both Identical)
MPL & C-MPL = 2.0Tons & 1Slot(Both Identical)

LL & ERLL vs C-ERLL = 4.0(5)Tons & 1(2)Slot(Clan 1Ton Lighter & 1Crit Smaller than IS)
LPL & C-LPL = 6.0(7)Tons & 2Slot(Clan 1Ton Lighter)

if we are Talking about interchangeable OmniPods on OmniMechs,
then lets Talk About Interchangeable Engines and Upgrades on BattleMechs?
Both of which along with Dynamic slots allow for More Tonnage to be Found,

Also on some Omni's yes, but having lots of Hard Points & using them are are 2 different things,
a DWF can have 14Energy how many 14Energy DWFs do you see running around, right you dont,

and TCs? Right, how about this? if we are Counting TC(which Take up Tonnage & Crits)
than you cant Complain about LL & ERLL Weighing 1Ton more & having 1Crit more,

Also TCs dont Decrease any weapons Cooldowns,
and the Range bonus is only +5% for TC-Mk2(2Tons&2Crits),
CC isnt Designed to Compete with TC, as IS eventually get their Own TCs,
Which is Why the Normal IS-ML doesnt have the range of a C-ERML,
think of when PGI Implements the IS-ERML,
Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 27 February 2016 - 08:35 PM.

[El Bandito]

Andi Nagasia, on 27 February 2016 - 05:48 PM, said:

Listen im not Saying in anyway this should go Live Like Tomorrow,
im saying i would like a Public Test to see what happens to see if it works,
Also yes Duration is going down, but DPS is going down as well,

im also reworking the Stats to Better Show Changes,

You do realize that of all the stats relevant to lasers, the most useless one is the cooldown? So what if your new Clan lasers have longer cooldown? It will have zero negative impact on the big peekaboo Clan laser alphas. Big alphas that are bolstered by 20% less duration.

Basically, overall it is still a buff.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 February 2016 - 11:09 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

El Bandito, on 27 February 2016 - 08:31 PM, said:

You do realize that of all the stats relevant to lasers, the most useless one is the cooldown. So what if your new Clan lasers have longer cooldown? It will have zero negative impact on the big peekaboo Clan laser alphas. Big alphas that are bolstered by 20% less duration.

Basically, overall it is still a buff.

but their DPS & Alphas would be lowered to that of IS levels,
6C-ERML & 2C-LPL will go from 68 to 60, 8 less 1C-MPL less Damage,
where as IS 6ML & LPL are 52 Damage only 1C-MPL Difference instead of 2,
and a half a second more means IS have more of an Advantage in Brawling,

[MauttyKoray]

Nope, I prefer the clan (ER mind you, IS only has ERLL, hence the disparity of the ML and SL) having the higher damage and range at the cost of higher heat and longer duration. I'm still not a fan of the Clan ballistics personally but they do much better with the reduced burst.

[Y E O N N E]

Andi Nagasia, on 27 February 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

but their DPS & Alphas would be lowered to that of IS levels,
6C-ERML & 2C-LPL will go from 68 to 60, 8 less 1C-MPL less Damage,
where as IS 6ML & LPL are 52 Damage only 1C-MPL Difference instead of 2,
and a half a second more means IS have more of an Advantage in Brawling,

"IS levels"

IS can already get up to 52 and stay playable; even Clans have a hard time pushing past that and remaining playable. So, it's already sort of homogeneous. By making the two sides even more alike, you are just making the game more homogeneous.

[Hillslam]

Thx for the update Andi. considering the extra info.

In the meantime, meh, I can't get too worked up over balance anymore. I just really believe that's a red herring. What this game needs is meaningful Co-Op PvE

[AEgg]

Sjorpha, on 27 February 2016 - 01:40 PM, said:

No, the factions should be made more different, not less.

I'd rather do the opposite and increase damage, heat and duration. But I'm pretty fine with the current difference as well.

Exactly this. Trying to make IS and Clan weapons closer to each other simply won't work because the base stats (weight, size) cannot change. What you would end up with is clan weapons strictly inferior to IS weapons. Instead, give clan weapons a real downside. For lasers, duration is an obvious downside (of course assuming that damage/tick is lower than damage/tick on the IS side).