16 replies to this topic

[SirSoggyDog]

Greetings, I'm the drop commander of a smaller unit and was wondering what you guys think about IS assaults when it comes to CW. Obviously the Stalkers are an old go-to (I myself have three, and drop with two in the deck), but I was wondering how some of the more obscure 80+ ton mechs played in CW. I know for a fact that the Banshee and Mauler are very capable (my lancemates routinely put up 1000+ damage lives in them), but I'm curious to see if anyone is a fan of the lighter Assaults.

For the record I run STK, STK, BJ, BJ currently. The Stalkers all carry BAP, CCONS, and NARC for drop calling purposes.

As far as I'm aware IS assaults are widely viewed as follows:

Banshee- Tanky, good firepower, excellent endurance, rather heavy.
Stalker- Surprisingly durable, spectacular hitboxes, high weapon mounts, lacking reliable firepower
Battlemaster- better hardpoints than the STK, but poor survivability.
Zeus- workable with mixed weapons, somewhat durable, plays like a fat heavy
Mauler- Downright terrifying fire support, somewhat squishy.

Any comments, builds, or mech reviews?

[Kimberm1911]

I don't play a lot of CW, but I believe that the Stalker, Atlas, or King crab are probably your best bet for an IS CW assault mech. The atlas is extremely good for a brawling push, and the stalker and King crab are both great at dealing consistent damage at range (The high mounts of the stalker probably win out over the King Crab, but 4x UAC 5 is crazy firepower if you can get those arms trained on target.) All three are incredibly tanky, which aids in the drawn out firefights of CW. The banshee is one of my personal favorite mechs to pilot, but it doesn't seem quite as useful to me in CW due to the fact that the stalker out lasers it and the king crab out dakkas it. That's not to say the banshee is bad, it's one of the best IS assaults in the game, it just seems to me that pulse brawling isn't as useful in CW as it is in other game modes. I don't think I've seen a zeus ever in CW, and the mauler is a bit new and squishy, so we'll see were he fits in eventually. Someone told me that after the laser range nerf that LRM's are making a comeback to CW. If that is the case, the BLR 1s and most stalkers may be a very good choice. Like said previously, I don't play a lot of CW, but I am aware of the capabilities of the mechs that you have listed, hopefully what I've said helps. Metamechs may be a good place to look if you are looking for drop deck ideas.

Peace, and have fun

Edited by Kimberm1911, 29 February 2016 - 09:05 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Okay, here's what I see (though I'm no expert, obviously):

Battlemaster- It's got a couple of top-tier variants out there, even after the IS laser range nerf. Survivability ain't quite Stalker level, but it's good enough. Twists/spreads well enough, has a MUCH wider torso twist radius than the STK, and can be a LOT faster. Try the XL 400 on one, and you'll be hooked. Even with a 325 or 340 engine, though, they're fun and relatively quick, and can carry plenty of firepower. And those high torso mounts for E weapons make it a great hillhumper. BLR-2C has the bigtime structure quirks, while the others just get a buff to arm armor (+14?), making it my personal favorite, especially if you want to set up for brawling (2x ASRM-6, 5x MPL, 2x AMS, makes a pretty good one).

Atlas- It's a brawler, and one of the best. Specifically, the AS7-S. AC/20, 4x ASRM-6? BRUTAL. With a 100-ton mech's armor and structure, and oh yeah, with the structure quirks too, it can survive quite well in the middle of the most brutal fistfights. On maps where an IS force expects to face their enemy at short range (DEFEND on Emerald Taiga, for instance), it can be quite a good idea to drop all AS7-S or -D-DC, or at least as many as you can, first mech. ESPECIALLY against a Clan opponent, who is better suited to mid-range and lacks (mostly) the defensive quirks. Atlas, in my humble opinion, is a short-range mech ONLY. 270 meters or less. In that bracket, though, it's the boss.

King Crab- Don't see a LOT of this guy in CW. Big torsos are easy to carve up. Low weapon mounts for the arm ballistics. A LOT more vulnerable to LRMs, with that big ... well, big CRAB-SHAPED body it has, catching all of the missiles like a sadistic drip pan. THAT said, it's an offensive powerhouse if you can get it close enough to actually fire. Dual AC/20 or quad AC/5 or UAC/5 makes a pretty intimidating loadout, though other mechs CAN do it as well or better.

Mauler- It's the new IS Assault-class dakka king. Load up on AC/2, or AC/5, or UAC/5, and don't sweat having to put in the face time. WORTH IT. They're not as squishy as I had feared they would be, as long as you're not putting massive missile launchers into the torsos (SO DON'T).

Really, Zeus and Awesome are crap. Sorry. No one runs them, who wants to actually play well and win against a quality opponent. Banshee, at least the -3M, seems pretty popular for pulse laser boating. Otherwise, not a big fan. It was a bigger deal long ago, during the poptart meta days. Highlanders are weak sauce. And there's another one, a humanoid-ish one, that's so crap that I can't even remember its name. Anyhow, no. Just no.

CW assaults:

STK- can do ranged supporting fire, sniping, etc.
BLR- can do all range brackets pretty well, though STK is better at X-LONG.
MAL- the dakka mech this city deserves.
AS7- still the IS bar fight champ.
KGC- can dakka, can tank, can get hit by stray LRMs from the next planet over.

More 1-to-1 note here: Using NARC on your STK, because you're a DC? Man, get on TS or use in-game VOIP, and TELL someone what to do. But IS NARC is a WASTE, especially on that mech. It's 3 tons, plus ammo. It's only good to a certain range, which ain't much. CCONS is alright, if you have more tons available than slots. Not worth it as an I-WANT-IT-NOW item, but if you need it to fill out a loadout then it's not HURTING you. BAP is probably a good call, so long as it's not stopping you from doing anything else with your build that you want. That said, between the three you're already spending 5 slots and 8 tons (assuming at least 0.5 tons NARC ammo) on those, and they're doing ZERO damage. With 1 ton of NARC ammo, that's a full 10% of your mech's mass spent on stuff that can't kill anything. TEN FREAKIN' PERCENT! Pick one (I recommend keeping BAP, if anything) and ditch the rest for WEAPONS.

Then you can LEAD by EXAMPLE, by killing stuff and inspiring your unit's confidence in you.

Cheers!

[SirSoggyDog]

I have spent a lot of time wondering whether or not nine tons of info tech is worth it, and to be honest I really can't think of anything much better to put on the mech. NARC is surprisingly effective, mainly for the fact that it allows a pilot to keep detailed info on a mech when the target is out of sight. BAP and NARC both benefit from the ECM counter, allowing one mech to counter two or more ECM opponents.

In other words, the nine tons of infotech is probably too much, but Ghost heat and slot issues prevent me from justifying a switch. I could get maybe one more LPL or so, but that'd take out almost all the infotech for a negligible upgrade in damage, due to the staggered fire needed to avoid ghost heat.

By the way, no doubts to the effectiveness of the Atlas and King Crab, they just seem really heavy for what they are worth.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

SirSoggyDog, on 01 March 2016 - 05:24 PM, said:

I have spent a lot of time wondering whether or not nine tons of info tech is worth it, and to be honest I really can't think of anything much better to put on the mech. NARC is surprisingly effective, mainly for the fact that it allows a pilot to keep detailed info on a mech when the target is out of sight. BAP and NARC both benefit from the ECM counter, allowing one mech to counter two or more ECM opponents.

In other words, the nine tons of infotech is probably too much, but Ghost heat and slot issues prevent me from justifying a switch. I could get maybe one more LPL or so, but that'd take out almost all the infotech for a negligible upgrade in damage, due to the staggered fire needed to avoid ghost heat.

By the way, no doubts to the effectiveness of the Atlas and King Crab, they just seem really heavy for what they are worth.

In that case, are you running the heaviest STD engine you can in that thing? That's just A LOT of infotech, and I'd almost rather run hotter than try to go NARCin' baddies in a STK.

Which STK variants are you running, BTW?

[Spheroid]

Battlemasters are awesome. Way better than Stalkers which are far to slow.

The ultimate meta deck is Battlemaster, Thunderbolt and or Jager-DD + BJ-1X.

Edited by Spheroid, 02 March 2016 - 12:42 AM.

[Leone]

BLR-1D 3025 legal, an pretty fun piloting in CW. I'm sure you can do better if'n your planning on kicking it up a notch with endosteel, but this has been used for my test run on whether DHS can be surpassed with enough Singles. I'm not yet convinced they are, but I'm fairly certain they're not worse.

Seriously, if I'm having this much fun screwing around, you'll do fine with em.

Okay, granted, I've not tried the Stalkers.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 02 March 2016 - 01:40 AM.

[Michal R]

OMG guys if don't play CW don't tell this guy what is good.

BLR - 4 LPL king of assaults in CW.
BNG 3M - 3 LPL + 5 ML - the same.
Mauller - if you like dakka. But Lazers are better fo CW
Zeus - tanky one 3LPL + 3ML. Fast assault for brawl.
Atlas - nope. Waste of tonnage.
KGC - like Atlas, waste of tonnage.
STK - don't play them.

Read Kinetix manual for CW. There is all.

[SirSoggyDog]

So what's everyone's beef with the STK, yes it can't mount a huge engine, but 57.7 KPH is more than enough with tweak. The hitboxes are downright ridiculous, and the mounts are pretty high.

For the record, I have a STK-3H (Yes, I know this is the "Bad" stalker, but it has good quirks and works for me)

And a STK-5M

Yes the Infotech could be sacrificed for heatsinks, but the 3H has no such problems. The 5M gets the job done too, and one rarely has to use both the ERLLs and SRMs at the same time. Heat's an issue here and then with this one, but it's not too much of an issue.

Regarding the BLR, I'm curious as to why 4 LPL is regarded as "King". 44 damage spread across two salvos doesn't seem like a whole lot, as a BJ can put out 8 more points of damage per alpha. Is something like this BLR-3M regarded as why too hot?

Edited by SirSoggyDog, 02 March 2016 - 07:55 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Just a couple things. And, mind you, if your builds ARE working well for you, then just ignore the rest of us. But yes, we ARE kinda giggling at them. A little. No offense. Anyhow....

1.) LEGS! Okay, there is NO mech in this game right now with a leg hard point for a weapon or ECM or AMS or any-darned-thing-at-all. So, those are ammo bins. If you've got a BAP in a leg, and ammo in a side torso (with some heat sinks and, y'know, unimportant stuff like WEAPONS), you're maybe taking some risks there.

2.) LEGS! Seriously, bro, don't skip leg day. Armor them puppies up. You can maybe skimp a COUPLE points per leg, but WHOA. And with ammo in them, DOUBLE WHOA. Seriously, I'll be keeping an eye out for you, and if I DO come up against you, expect that I'm aiming LEGS ALL DAY until you fix that. (Okay, okay. Player knowledge versus character knowledge. Got it. I'll pretend to un-see that.)

3.) STD 255? Wait, a BLR with an engine smaller than 325? Too slow even for DEFEND, man. Would take you have the match on Grim Portico just to get from the drop zone to Omega, which might make for a timely entrance but will ultimately end in tears. You're not going to break any land speed records in a Stalker, sure, but dude, that's just too slow. My BLRs with a 325 STD feel slow. Can't imagine that STK build.

4.) Command Console is cool IF you don't need any more ammo and you can't fit any more heat sinks and bigger/better weapons are already out of the question. These things DO NOT APPLY, of course, to your STK builds. Neato bonuses, sure, but not really enough to justify the added weight. Again, that's THREE TONS of not-hurting-a-fly. Even the NARC is at least seriously (potentially) improving the lethality of some friendly weapon system, and enhancing your information advantage. The CC? Paperweight, in your case.


Okay, on to the Fattlemasters. I like the BLR-2C, mostly because it's got the best defensive quirks. Seriously, look at those structure buffs! Bro works out. The torso E weapon mounts are HIGH, making it decent at hill humping. If needed, the -2C can mount a couple of ASRM-6s in the LT, too, for a brawler-ish loadout. AND it can do dual AMS, in case you fear the LURMAGEDDON.

4x LPL is a decent idea for a Fattlemaster, though a little less so since the IS range quirk nerf. Still, solid mechs. HINT: They shield fairly well with the arms, so maybe strip armor THERE instead of the LEGS. ANOTHER HINT: They can take some pretty BIG engines.

[SirSoggyDog]

Ok I broke down and got a Penta-AC/5 Mauler. It's slow, it handles like a pregnant moose, and is somewhat squishy for an assault.... That being said, the thing is absolutely bloody obscene when it comes to just dumping raw damage out at any range, and when our whole lance drops with them, woe to anyone who winds up in front of the guns. Glory to the Thunder Udder

Edited by SirSoggyDog, 04 March 2016 - 09:29 PM.

[The Mecha Streisand]

Thunder Udder? Love it! Keep us posted how that Mauler experience works out for you!

[Ollorin]

Being new to both CW and assaults I went the route of the the x6 LL Stalker 4N per the advice on metamechs. So far its worked pretty well for me once I got used to it. I usually drop with this first for the initial push.

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7848273b51183d4[/smurfy]

If you prefer longer range sniping you could drop the LL's and go with 4 ERLL's in the arms and additional heatsinks in the torso.

[aaykeem]

Sister RAbbi, on 29 February 2016 - 09:37 PM, said:

Highlanders are weak sauce.

I beg to differ.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6e591fef909cbe8

Also the 732B's got some stupid structure quirks. Too bad you can't fit an AC20, or more lasers in it.

[patoman]

Personally I got atlases because of founders, and then a pack a got but now sort of regret it. They are good in some ways but mechs that can be better specialized focus are better (just two or one weapon system), say the king crab for auto cannons or stalker for missiles (and either can use lasers). Atlas often have missile one torso, auto cannon another and some laser slots. Even cleaning up the stock fit that has literally every weapon type imaginable still makes it a everything including the kitchen sink slot layout.

I like the look of a atlas more than piloting it.

Edited by patoman, 12 March 2016 - 05:38 PM.

[SirSoggyDog]

My brother pilots a Atlas-D-DC, and tends to pull within the top three for damage. More importantly, the ECM and armor makes the mech an excellent pug shepherd. The Atlas is most valuable when it's on the vanguard of a charge, as it can dump an alpha or two and then use it's macho arms to sponge a couple mechs worth of damage.

With that being said, it's an incredibly frustrating mech to pilot, draws fire like it's going out of style, and lacks some of the raw damage potential of other assaults. More importantly, it's 15 tons heavier than the other staple assaults, which can cause some serious depth issues in a deck.

Edit: And yes, the Atlas looks downright terrifying, particularly with the Franken pattern...

Edited by SirSoggyDog, 13 March 2016 - 06:19 PM.

[Johny Rocket]

The Mecha Streisand, on 05 March 2016 - 10:46 AM, said:

Thunder Udder? Love it! Keep us posted how that Mauler experience works out for you!

I run the 5 AC5 MX90 in CW, we always go assaults 1st and it runs pretty consistently in the 700-800 damage neighborhood.

With elite done and a cooldown mod that is an AC25 alpha every 1.37 sec.
It gets range, heat gen and velocity quirks as well. Heat gen is -10%, AC5s already run ridiculously cool so this is gravy. The 25% velocity quirk is very nice for long range shots. The real magic is that 25% range quirk, stack that with a module and you are getting an optimal range of 837m and a max of 1674m.
The Mauler in lore and game was never meant to brawl and this build out dps the dual AC20 build at 3-4X the range. You have to run a STD to get the 5th AC5 in which also adds a lot of longevity to the mech in cw.

The cannons are high mounted in the torsos which makes it way better than the KC for range fighting.

I bind all 5 on 2 triggers 1 set to alpha the other to chain. If you chainfire and every 3rd shot hit the alpha button it will fire a burst of 3 with out breaking the chainfire rhythm.

Edited by Tractor Joe, 14 March 2016 - 09:24 AM.