47 replies to this topic

[ScarecrowES]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 02 March 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

It is the reason that mechs like the Mad Dog and Warhawk suffer in the scale department in the first place, because they share the same leg and thus same size as their heavier counterparts.

I can concede this point entirely, however it has an interesting effect when you're doing a volumetric rescale. Because you now have an abnormally large volume associated with the legs compared to what would be considered proportional to the torso, this actually provides a certain amount of additional weight that must then be accounted for when the whole Mech model is scaled down. If you think about that, because the legs are so large, the models will require additional negative resizing to compensate for those legs. In turn, this means that the torso will actually be reduced to a smaller size with the larger legs intact then if the mech was rescaled after the legs were reduced to an aesthetically proportional size. So if you would like the smallest possible hitboxes on the torsos of the mad dog and the Warhawk, you would actually want to leave the legs intact as they are.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

ScarecrowES, on 02 March 2016 - 01:57 PM, said:

I can concede this point entirely, however it has an interesting effect when you're doing a volumetric rescale. Because you now have an abnormally large volume associated with the legs compared to what would be considered proportional to the torso, this actually provides a certain amount of additional weight that must then be accounted for when the whole Mech model is scaled down. If you think about that, because the legs are so large, the models will require additional negative resizing to compensate for those legs. In turn, this means that the torso will actually be reduced to a smaller size with the larger legs intact then if the mech was rescaled after the legs were reduced to an aesthetically proportional size.

It isn't that the legs are overly big compared to the torso, it is that the torso was modeled to be correct proportions with the legs, and thus sized like their heavier counterparts, if they were globally shrunk like the Nova, I would have no problem with that (though I think the Warhawk model needs tweaking for other things).

[ScarecrowES]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 02 March 2016 - 02:00 PM, said:

It isn't that the legs are overly big compared to the torso, it is that the torso was modeled to be correct proportions with the legs, and thus sized like their heavier counterparts, if they were globally shrunk like the Nova, I would have no problem with that (though I think the Warhawk model needs tweaking for other things).

I think a total global rescale using the existing proportions probably does the best justice to the mech, as it gives it the smallest torso... and reducing torso size overall for the Mad Dog and Warhead give both mechs a much needed boost.

[ScarecrowES]

MATRAKA14, on 02 March 2016 - 10:51 AM, said:

This thread is super important, keep it alive.

Come and see the house of horrors!

I think some of that falls outside the scope of what might be possible during the rescale.

It seems like the hardpoint fixes for the Griffin might require remodeling of the torso to better accomodate racks... or a total rethink of how dynamic geo is applied to that mech.

I'll add the Raven to the list of examples of "barrel" improvements. My general feeling is that if a hardpoint is mounted into a "pod" it should remain relatively flush with the pod... think a Hunchie's hunch, most torso energy mounts, fairing arm mounts etc. But if a hardpoint is mounted to the front of an arm, for instance, it should have barrels. Is the community in agreement with that? So Raven arms = barrels, Raven torso = flush.

I find cylindrical arms on a CLASSIC Timberwolf appealing, but not on the MWO version. However, there's a pic floating around showing a TBR sporting the hybrid cylindrical arms from the Hellbringer Invasion special geo. I highly approve of that geo for the TBR, and an arm swap, since it doesn't require remodeling, is doable during rescale. How do people feel about the hybrid arms?

I'm hoping someone on the forums with more knowledge about modeling for C rytek might be able to chime in about the feasibility of single axis rescales. This is pretty easy to do in modeling software, and doesn't have to completely bork textures, etc if it's not a massive change... i just don't know how it affects animation especially. I intend to suggest investigation into the feasibility of single axis rescales and independent component rescales (making arms or legs proportionately larger or smaller independent of the rest of the model).

[ScarecrowES]

Starting to compile many of the suggestions into more cohesive write-ups. I should have a tenative set by the end of the weekend. Still looking for more suggestions.

So far, we've seen a few mech rescale comparisons come down from Russ and the team. Most people have already seen the new smaller Nova, and we've got images of the Dragon now. For the sake of comparison, it's noted that the Shadowcat falls in at less than 2% off its correct size via volumetric comparison... so don't expect that mech to see much change. It gives you a good idea what 45 tons of mech looks like.

As expected, the Warhawk is quite big. 8% too large, in fact, so we should see this one drop a few pounds.

It doesn't appear, through limited review, that mechs are seeing any actual changes in rescaling... though it was expected that without prodding, PGI would merely rescale by total percentage and not make any other adjustments.

I hope this thread might see some good work done.

[ScarecrowES]

I have a mission for the community regarding proportional ideals. There's been much discussion about how certain mechs have acceptable designs and general geometry, but are proportioned in ways that are undesirable for aesthetic and balancing reasons. The mech might be generally too tall for its frame, or have a torso that's too wide. It might have legs that are too short or too long for its body, or arms that are too fat or thin. The mech might be, overall, too chunky or too gaunt. I'm not looking at mech designs that are a little "off" by design. The Hunchie is intentionally stubby. The Grasshopper is intentionally wispy.

When making suggestions to PGI for mechs that could use a little independent axis or component tweaking before rescale, I'd like to be able to point them to another mech that is more ideal. So from the community, I'd like suggestions for mechs that have all the right proportions. I don't mean that they're the right size compared to other similar mechs... just that they're well-composed. Specifically, I'm looking for examples of humanoid mechs, since discrepencies in human proportions seem to trigger rejection in the brain most easily. So in each class of mech, I need one (preferably humanoid) that fits the ideal to compare to.

[Volthorne]

Longer legs and a shorter torso on the Black Knight would be nice. Also arm cannons in place of those stupid laser boxes!

[ScarecrowES]

Volthorne, on 03 March 2016 - 09:25 PM, said:

Longer legs and a shorter torso on the Black Knight would be nice. Also arm cannons in place of those stupid laser boxes!

If the community is in agreement, I could add the BK to the list of mechs that might benefit from specific independent geo scaling. But yeah, general modifications to dynamic hardpoint geo in certain condition (laser barrels in certain arm pods, for example) is on the list already... but I could use the BK as an example of that.