15 replies to this topic

[Undercover Brother]

I don't have time to troll a few THOUSAND threads, so I'll post, and see if anybody cares...

I pride myself on being a problem solver and a decent military tactician. I have been involved in a few other (unmentioned) MMOs and other multiplayer games, becoming somewhat sought-after as the "man with the plan."

So, what I want to know is, will there be any C3 (Command & Control Computer) interface options available on any of the Mechs. Quite a few mechs in the Battletech universe were equipped with C3s to increase battlefield awareness, whereas the unit commander could function in a tactial role, relaying coordinates and fire-control to various units, as well as sharing radar data. I'm not asking the developers for a "Mechcommander"-type extension of MWO, but I'm just saying that I'd be MORE-THAN-HAPPY to drop 3,000,000 C-bills on equipping MY unit with C3 capability...

Imagine, if you will, two mixed lances of heavy and assault-class mechs, advancing deliberately towards your paltry mixed-weight medium lances... Your spotter, a simple Locust, calls out: "Sending target telemetry now, sir..." All of a sudden, your tactical map/radar screen lights up with exact positions of the enemy. "Fire at will."
At once, every mech in your unit fires their LRMs at ONE SPECIFIC POINT, thanks to their C3 Slave units, and your Locust pilot's guts... Twin Atlases are consumed by fire as over 300 LRMs find their mark... "Targets down."

What do you think?

[Name48928]

Don't know. Haven't seen any video depicting gameplay for the command role yet.

[Arafinar]

http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

sorry you so busy you cant spend 10 seconds on the search box(which is how long it took)

[Sept Wolfke]

So the C3 system on tabletop works like this: closest C3 equipped model determines the ranged used by everyone.

I'd love to see the C3 system implemented like this: when I, lets say as a fire support mech with C3, go to target a distant target that is engaged with someone in the C3 network who is at close range, then my targetting attempts are rewarded with some degree of a 'snap to target' type effect. if the friendly C3 equipped mech nearest to my target is very close, then the 'snap to target' effect is more useful than if the nearest friendly C3 equipped mech is not as close to my target. Doing this without taking away from attempts to target specific locations would be an important consideration. This seems like it'd be a great way to implement some form of boost to accuracy.

just a brainstormy kinda thought.

[WardenWolf]

I've wondered about this myself - but it seems like we are getting most of the C3 system benefits just by virtue of how role warfare is being implemented. From the screenshots / videos so far, it appears that if a mech on your team has visual on an enemy mech, then you can see it on you radar display. The Commander role has been described as being able to coordinate instructions for lancemates, etc as well. Doesn't that sort of sound like the traditional role of the C3 computers in tabletop?

[Sept Wolfke]

you may be thinking of TAG (effectively a piece of equipment that buffs the 'spotter' role). TAG makes indirect artillery fire viable, where C3 works for all types of fire vs. a target. Seeing a mech on the map is more the domain of TAG (spotting), where C3 is about target number modification.

[Derek Icelord]

From how they've described modules, I would imagine the C3 computer will not be making an appearance since modules will be doing pretty much the same thing.

See Dev Blog 2
And Dev Blog 3

[Gabopentin]

So you are effectively controlling the firepower of every Mech in your lance. Does that sound right? So what are the pilots of your C3 controlled Mechs for? To wear hula skirts on advertising posters? I can see a place for TAG. Where the recon Mech TAGs a target for the LR Mech to fire LRMs and take it out. What I can't see is any place for a 'system' in which the 'commander' controls the fire power of a complete Lance.
Scenario: In the future of this MMO there may be battles of several 100s of Mech. Each Mech army controlled by a small number of C3 'generals'?. With what I read in your post this will kill the game faster than a compulsory part of the EULA being to wear hula skirts when playing in a tournament. People join an online game to take part in the battles themselves. Not to just pilot the Mech to a fire point and then just sit there whilst the Lance Commander 'takes control'.
A better 'system' would be to prove your effectiveness as a leader, earn the respect of your Lance enough that they will all fire at the target you designate through effective use of a scout Mech.

[Bongo TauKat]

I could see C3 working if carriers had some sort of extended range radar with slaves receiving the benefit, or perhaps faster lock on for missiles to the slaved units, perhaps even a limited auto-aim for the system as well.

To me, it sounds like a lot of work for a game just starting. Perhaps it is something we will see in the future?

[Sept Wolfke]

I like the idea of TAG enabling LRMs to fire indirectly and hit targets on the move, this is very fluffy and close to the tabletop rules in regards to TAG and artillery fire... I spose this comment is offtopic, but we all are heathens on occasion. I'll stop now.

I think limited auto-aim is probably the best way to implement C3.

[Undercover Brother]

Again, my point of reference for the C3 system is based more on the Battletech Literature than anything else... If anybody has ever read the books, then they would understand where I am coming from regarding realism, and the use of the C3 itself.

Case in point: A shutdown mech creates no signature on radar until you're practically standing on it, but a "Beagle Active Probe" (according to the literature) uses a combination of sensors to pinpoint even shut-down mechs.

An ECM system can confuse enemy radar and communications.

A TAG laser can be used the same way as a modern GTL or Guided Telemetry Laser, by pinpointing a target with range information so the person using it can get both accurate range as well as guide equipped munitions onto the target.

A NARC Beacon uses an SRM with a homing beacon attached to it to "paint" a target on radar and GPS, making (for a short period) the target completely visible to friendly units...

If we were going for realism, according to the literature, then just because your lancemate sees a target that is behind a hill from you, doesn't mean YOU see it on your sensors (radar, tactical map, etc...). Hills, trees, weather; ANYTHING that doesn't allow some sort of line-of-sight to the target would most likely interfere with tracking the enemy. Your lancemate could give you map coordinates as to where his/her target is, but YOU wouldn't necessarily "see" the target. What the C3 does, is use data streams (not normally available) to link targeting, radar, and tactical maps from all parties that happen to be carrying the C3 "master", or C3 "slave" units. The downside to having a C3 "master" is that it is a large, and heavy, system... The pilot who carries one loses weapons, armor, etc..., in exchange for having it. The "slave" units weigh next-to-nothing (.5 ton if I remember correctly), but the extra cost in weight, C-bills, and security (for the one carrying the "master") could be a decisive advantage in an engagement.

The bottom line is this: EVERY MECHWARRIOR / BATTLETECH GAME HAS GOTTEN IT WRONG SO FAR!!!
No single mech, or lance, or company, or regiment, should have "omnipotence" on the battlefield when real-life typography, weather, etc..., are always factors. The C3 was designed so that if one member of a unit could see it, EVERY member of the unit could see it. That's it.
If we are going for the greatest, most fun, most realistic, and (GOD willing) most frantic Battletech experience EVER, then lets DO it!

[Bodha]

I hope they implement C3 in some form AND make it something desirable for the pre-built lances to use across the board.

I can easily see it boosting missile accuracy somewhat, but I don't know how they can easily add the +hit feature to direct fire weapons. I suppose they could implement some form of aim support... but I don't know how strong that should be and then there is the question of how it improves your aim. Should aim support make you miss less or hit specific spots more easily?

[Kalenn]

T Decker, on 13 July 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

I don't have time to troll a few THOUSAND threads, so I'll post, and see if anybody cares...

I pride myself on being a problem solver and a decent military tactician. I have been involved in a few other (unmentioned) MMOs and other multiplayer games, becoming somewhat sought-after as the "man with the plan."

So, what I want to know is, will there be any C3 (Command & Control Computer) interface options available on any of the Mechs. Quite a few mechs in the Battletech universe were equipped with C3s to increase battlefield awareness, whereas the unit commander could function in a tactial role, relaying coordinates and fire-control to various units, as well as sharing radar data. I'm not asking the developers for a "Mechcommander"-type extension of MWO, but I'm just saying that I'd be MORE-THAN-HAPPY to drop 3,000,000 C-bills on equipping MY unit with C3 capability...

Imagine, if you will, two mixed lances of heavy and assault-class mechs, advancing deliberately towards your paltry mixed-weight medium lances... Your spotter, a simple Locust, calls out: "Sending target telemetry now, sir..." All of a sudden, your tactical map/radar screen lights up with exact positions of the enemy. "Fire at will."
At once, every mech in your unit fires their LRMs at ONE SPECIFIC POINT, thanks to their C3 Slave units, and your Locust pilot's guts... Twin Atlases are consumed by fire as over 300 LRMs find their mark... "Targets down."

What do you think?

I'm going to pre-emptively declare a Trial of Possession over the sig... also known as "dibs"

Aaaanyways, C3 was useful in I think MW3, where you didn't have magic see-through radar. They had some maps where the weak visibility meant that you actually benefited from advanced ECM. Other than that, don't think it's been done well to date.

[Grey Weasel]

T Decker, on 13 July 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

The bottom line is this: EVERY MECHWARRIOR / BATTLETECH GAME HAS GOTTEN IT WRONG SO FAR!!!
No single mech, or lance, or company, or regiment, should have "omnipotence" on the battlefield when real-life typography, weather, etc..., are always factors. The C3 was designed so that if one member of a unit could see it, EVERY member of the unit could see it. That's it.
If we are going for the greatest, most fun, most realistic, and (GOD willing) most frantic Battletech experience EVER, then lets DO it!

I disagree. Two points. If what you say is true, then you would not /also/ get to use the range to target of the closest unit on the network. Also... double blind rules as they are written and played would be completely wrong, as well. When someone on your team spots a mech, it is designated and everyone knows where it is and probably what it is. Kind of how indirect LRM fire works, too. Otherwise scouts without C3 would be useless. They are not.

[Xune]

T Decker, on 13 July 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

I pride myself on being a problem solver and a decent military tactician. I have been involved in a few other (unmentioned) MMOs and other multiplayer games, becoming somewhat sought-after as the "man with the plan."

So, what I want to know is, will there be any C3 (Command & Control Computer) interface options available on any of the Mechs.

Wow.... just wow....

if the man with the plan cant read then i dont know what to think anymore.

To answer your question "yes" but please stop... becouse " Mein gott strinkt deine Selbstbeweihräucherung"

Edited by Xune, 16 July 2012 - 11:52 PM.

[Xune]

T Decker, on 13 July 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

If anybody has ever read the books, then they would understand where I am coming from regarding realism, and the use of the C3 itself.

Even more Wow, i mean common even more trolling ? Your have been right with the very first sentance in your top post i guess.

Anyway im out here