286 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

El Bandito, on 04 March 2016 - 08:10 PM, said:

One simply does not shrug off dual CLPL, dual Gauss, or triple ERLL hit at 600 meter range.

You would be surprised how much a mech can shrug off currently in coordinated pushes. I still don't really see the problem currently, just like Gas, super strong alphas are not really as strong as people play it off as. After all the strongest Assaults all have alphas below 60 points unlike shortly before the rebalance, and the 5 AC5 Mauler is one of the strongest assaults and it only has a 25 point alpha? So remind my why we are so worried about the boogiemen of things like the Whale which only have a niche in the current meta?

Why are we so worried about a few heavies and mediums that could simply suffer a minor nerf and be traded in for something with a smaller alpha. Big sweeping changes aren't need to fix high energy alphas, worst case a few quirks need to be lowered. Do we not like the variety of roles currently, do we really need to reduce that from potentially the most diverse meta we have ever had?

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 04 March 2016 - 08:24 PM.

[El Bandito]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 04 March 2016 - 08:24 PM, said:

You would be surprised how much a mech can shrug off currently in coordinated pushes. I still don't really see the problem currently, just like Gas, super strong alphas are not really as strong as people play it off as. After all the strongest Assaults all have alphas below 60 points unlike shortly before the rebalance, and the 5 AC5 Mauler is one of the strongest assaults and it only has a 25 point alpha? So remind my why we are so worried about the boogiemen of things like the Whale which only have a niche in the current meta?

Why are we so worried about a few heavies and mediums that could simply suffer a minor nerf and be traded in for something with a smaller alpha. Big sweeping changes aren't need to fix high energy alphas, worst case a few quirks need to be lowered. Do we not like the variety of roles currently, do we really need to reduce that from potentially the most diverse meta we have ever had?

Bottom line is, the current Ghost Heat system cannot catch all the big alpha culprits, such as mixing different class lasers/ballistics/missiles to avoid the GH. The 3LPL + 5 MPL Banshee-3M for example. Therefore such a change is necessary, as long as PGI continues to keep the GH system.

About the 5xAC5 Mauler or any other AC boating builds, PGI can simply nerf individual mechs or nerf the weapon itself. Lord knows the AC5 needs more heat, compared to other ACs' DPH.

Edited by El Bandito, 04 March 2016 - 08:31 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

the Question is will it be:
-
Power Draw into Heat? (Do more than 35Damage Heat Increases by XX%)
fire 6CERML(42Dam&36Heat)(42=7over35)(7x3=21)(Heat with OverDraw=(42+8.82(50.82[21%])
-
or Power Draw Into Damage? (Do more than 35Damage, Damage Decreases by XX%)
fire 6CERML(42Dam)(42=7over35)(7x2=14)(Damage with OverDraw=(42-5.88(36.12[14%])

[ScarecrowES]

oldradagast, on 04 March 2016 - 06:13 PM, said:

There will always be a meta, yes - I never said otherwise. But as long as the meta consists of basically a handful of weapons and a handful of builds (with a few exceptions thanks to hyper-quirks or very odd hardpoints), the game will stagnate quickly. Nearly every balance issue in the game, from ghost heat to Gauss charge up to mechs with poor hit-boxes being utterly worthless has its roots in the extreme ease with which certain weapons can land a large amount of damage at long ranges on a single pixel. Until THAT problem is address - that insanity of instant, perfect convergence that is so out of flavor with reality, every other FPS, and Battletech's lore - nothing will really be solved.

In the end, Ghost Power will just turn into "what combination of large lasers, Gauss Rifles, and maybe PPC's can I fit on this mech to stay under the Ghost Power limit." Or, if you're a light, "how many medium or small lasers can I fit to do the same thing." That's it - nothing else changes - because weapons that are short range and/or have damage scatter built-in have no place in a game where anyone can be a sniper, effectively.

I was in full agreement with you. Not sure if that was unclear, haha.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

El Bandito, on 04 March 2016 - 08:29 PM, said:

Bottom line is, the current Ghost Heat system cannot catch all the big alpha culprits, such as mixing different class lasers/ballistics/missiles to avoid the GH.

My question is why does it? As I have said, there are very few big alpha mechs, and they actually mix weapons to do it (*gasp* mixed loadouts?!?!?!). Why shouldn't that be considered good? I'm not saying I necessarily like Ghost Heat, but at the same time I feel like this power draw system is bound to push things way too far.

El Bandito, on 04 March 2016 - 08:29 PM, said:

The 3LPL + 5 MPL Banshee-3M for example.

The new Wubshee suffers from its own issues and its why I prefer the 5 LPL version (which is limited to chain fired alpha of 55 damage).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 04 March 2016 - 08:43 PM.

[El Bandito]

Andi Nagasia, on 04 March 2016 - 08:35 PM, said:

the Question is will it be:
-
Power Draw into Heat? (Do more than 35Damage Heat Increases by XX%)
fire 6CERML(42Dam&36Heat)(42=7over35)(7x3=21)(Heat with OverDraw=(42+8.82(50.82[21%])
-
or Power Draw Into Damage? (Do more than 35Damage, Damage Decreases by XX%)
fire 6CERML(42Dam)(42=7over35)(7x2=14)(Damage with OverDraw=(42-5.88(36.12[14%])

I prefer neither. Forced chain firing the excess weapons over the power draw limit would be my choice. BT novel Blood Legacy had something like that.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 04 March 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

The new Wubshee suffers from its own issues and its why I prefer the 5 LPL version (which is limited to chain fired alpha of 55 damage).

And the 5 LPL version would be right at home under my forced chain fire system. Moreover, it would be newbie friendly, since the computer will do the optimal chain firing, without extra delays.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 04 March 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

My question is why does it? As I have said, there are very few big alpha mechs, and they actually mix weapons to do it (*gasp* mixed loadouts?!?!?!). Why shouldn't that be considered good? I'm not saying I necessarily like Ghost Heat, but at the same time I feel like this power draw system is bound to push things way too far.

Because like it or not, the point of the system is to punish big alphas, period. A lot of people agree that instant pinpoint + big alphas make this game feel like a common twitch shooter. Since PGI is unable to do anything about the instant pin-point convergence part, they are trying to fix the other part of the issue--which is the big alphas. So basically it stems from PGI's limitations.

Spread weapons such as SRM/SSRM/LRM/LBX might have less power draw value compared to their damage, due to their inaccuracy.

Edited by El Bandito, 04 March 2016 - 09:07 PM.