41 replies to this topic

[Rhent]

MrMadguy, on 02 March 2016 - 11:57 PM, said:

Can you explain, why Viridian Bog is bad? When players say, that some map is bad, they at least bring some arguments. Therma, Alpine and Crimson have terrible "King of Hill" type of gameplay. Polar and Alpine - are way too big, so they gimp Assault 'Mechs. Polar, Alpine, City and partially Forest (center is open, like at City) - lack cover, so they're too biased towards Snipe/LRM meta. So if you play Assault/Heavy brawler - you simply have nothing to do on this maps. Also all this maps lack variety of tactics, so they're played the same way again, again and again, cuz any deviation from standard tactic = suicide, which is extremely boring.

And Bog is actually good map - right size, good amount of cover, enough routes to provide variety of tactics. The only problem - it's imbalanced a little bit, cuz central hills have stairs only from one side. It's good, or at least isn't bad, and majority of players agrees with me:

So if you play some extremely Meta crap, that shouldn't even exist in this game and wouldn't exist with sized hardpoints, like ER-LL boat Light, so you need open maps to grief other players - then it's only your problem.

Also problem with streaks of same maps - isn't problem with players. It's problem with PGI's so called "RNG" - instead of providing random 4 maps for every vote, they are trying to force terrible ones. And when it's always something like Polar, Therma, Alpine, Bog or City, Therma, Bog, Forest over and over again - then players just have no other choice, but always vote for Bog.

Also don't hope, that blind fixed voting will favour random map rotation, as you like. Tricks, like changing you vote at last moment, just compensate the fact, that vote trolls can intentionally stack multipliers today. Yeah, with fixed voting we won't be able to change vote at last moment. But you won't be able to intentionally stack your multiplier too. So, situation will be even better. You will have to vote for maps, you want to bring, only - it will make stacking 10x slower.

So. It's called democracy - power of majority. You don't have vote multiplier, when you vote for your president. We don't need tyranny, i.e. power of minority, here, sorry. And don't tell us about tyranny of majority. When interests of different people are mutually exclusive - only power of majority is possible. So minority should know it's place. It isn't more important or special, only because it's minority. Majority shouldn't be punished to cater to whimsical, salty, whiny minority, just because they're "endangered species", so they need to be "put into the Red List".

Your analysis is 100% subjective with only your viewpoint backing it making it useless. The same is for me when I say Crimson Straights is the best why? I like that map because it allows all game styles to play and counters to each game style is present.
-Want to LRM, no problem climb top of hill and fire uimpeeded. If you don't want to get hit by LRM's go tunnel or under. Hell use tall buildings.

-Want to snipe go to hill in middle of water or top of hill or top ledge. Don't want to be sniped go tunnel or use a building.

-Want to circle around and get rear flanks go saddle. Don't want to be flanked, set up trap to stop flank behind water.

-Last light mech on conquest vs 4 mechs with a lead an 100 pts to go. Go deep water and let the water hide you. Don't want to have that happen, kill enemy lights or send your remaining lights to check the deep water.

[Jables McBarty]

MrMadguy, on 02 March 2016 - 11:57 PM, said:

It's good, or at least isn't bad, and majority* of players agrees with me:

*Can you provide sources for your absolutely subjective statement?

MrMadguy, on 03 March 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

Look, your rank is way too subjective** - you like LRMs, so you want maps, that suit your tactics the most. My rank is objective**: I have 70 'Mechs and all of them are different. So I can compare, how every map is played in almost every possible build in this game. And I've been doing it for thousands of matches already.

...

My advice: try to play brawler build and you'll see, how your preferences will change.

**I'm beginning to wonder if you know what these words mean.

That being said, your statements (which I truncated for brevity's sake) that maps and tactics vary, etc., I can generally agree with. Different maps yield different tactics. However the fact that you have played thousands of matches or have more mechs than other people doesn't make you better equipped to decide which maps are "better" or "worse" because those are 100% subjective measures.

Tarogato, on 04 March 2016 - 03:14 AM, said:

I'm willing to bet that that is still false. Before map voting was introduced, if you checked your Map Stats, you would see that Frozen City and Frozen City Night would have some of your lowest number of matches played. Same was true for River City (Night) and Forest Colony (Snow). In fact, checking your Map Stats today, I'm willing to bet that they are still at the bottom and if you add the numbers together for both Frozen City and Frozen City Night, you will get a number consistent with the other maps. For me, my most played map is River City with 908 matches, and combining Frozen City + Night gives me 910.

So it isn't twice as likely to appear, combined together it is equally likely. My stats, sorted from most played to least:

Twice as likely to appear in the voting, or in actual gameplay? Because I've definitely seen both as options in the voting screen. I think composite they are more likely to appear, though not necessarily "twice" as likely.

Tarogato, on 04 March 2016 - 03:31 AM, said:

Wow, that is extraordinarily inconsistent with mine. My archived stats also show that Frozen City and Frozen City Night were dropped half as often, and when combined, equaled the other maps. What do your current stats look like?

Huh. Frozen Cities combined are at the top of my list: 174, with next in line being River City at 158:

91+83 = 174 Frozen City
158 RC
149 MC
130 Forest Colony
128 VB
124 CN
118 HPG
102 TD
87 AP
86 CV
84 CS
78 PH
64 TT

In the end, I think the issue is also largely what tier you play in, what server, and what time you play. I'm hearing lots of complaints about Terra Therma--this map is almost never played for me. But yes, streaks are irritating. I must have played 20 matches in Canyon Network this week. I like the map, but I get tired of playing the same maps over and over, so by the end of last night I was voting "anything but CN" (whereas I'm usually voting "anything but River City, or Terra Therma if it's an option" simply because those are my most and least played maps).

EDIT: wrote out Frozen City and Forest Colony since both were abbreviated FC.

Edited by Jables McBarty, 04 March 2016 - 08:46 AM.