54 replies to this topic

[Metus regem]

wanderer, on 03 March 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:

The problem with jump jets is that Paul basically chucked the entire system and randomly injected his own- including utterly ignoring anything construction related.

And sadly, there are so many little tie ins between the rules he chucked and the ones he kept, we've got the mess we have now....

[FalconerGray]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a big part of the popularity and effectiveness of these mechs the fact that you would often run drops / campaigns without the full weight range being covered? I played around with Megamek for a short while and one of the things I most enjoyed was running missions with mostly light mechs and perhaps a few mediums. It also gives those few mediums a serious impact when you encounter them, as if you're used to fighting 20-30ton mechs with the same then suddenly run into a 55 tonner, that's a serious situation to be in. Unfortunately with the way things are with MWO, I don't know how we would ever channel those same feelings.

[wanderer]

Valkyries, for those not in the know are a Davion 30-tonner that strongly resembles the Wasp. A bit slower and packs an LRM-10 instead of an SRM-2, and more armor. It also lacks a right hand actuator.

Speedwise, it falls at an engine base of 150, meaning it's speed range would be slightly superior to the Panther.

[Malleus011]

wanderer, on 03 March 2016 - 03:07 PM, said:

Valkyries, for those not in the know are a Davion 30-tonner that strongly resembles the Wasp. A bit slower and packs an LRM-10 instead of an SRM-2, and more armor. It also lacks a right hand actuator.

Speedwise, it falls at an engine base of 150, meaning it's speed range would be slightly superior to the Panther.

Conventional wisdom is that it won't be terribly good in MWO (kind of like the Panther) as it really only has right arm E and left torso M hardpoints to work from. I'm a big fan of the 'mech from TT days, but I can see how the general MWO player wouldn't understand why he should buy a Valkyrie when he can get a Firestarter.

Once again, if they think they can give it the full MWO treatment, I'm all for it, but if the only way they can see doing it would be to re-use a lot of Wasp/Stinger/Phoenix Hawk parts, then I'll take it if I can get the 'mech in the game.

Maybe the rumored new CW game modes would give some role for the light, cheap scouts, but we don't know enough about those modes to judge that.

[Johnny Z]

If they do make them similar geo and offer them at a standard price it would make for a great deal for the buyer and could, aside from mech purchase fatigue, make them very popular and numerous in game similar to how it would be in a Battletech story. That's a good thing.

[jss78]

Cathy, on 03 March 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

If P.G.I make them, not only would there be income here, they would be asests PGI can add to the H.B.S deal, if its not a job lot and done on a per mech basis

This is actually one of the bigger reasons why I'm secretly hoping PGI does the Stinger/Wasp models. I'm not sure they'll be particularly useful in MWO (although the CW scouting missions could hopefully include gameplay or tonnage mechanics which make them viable).

But I think HBS's game could really use them. (And the Crusader for that matter.)

[NextGame]

Malleus011, on 03 March 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

What shall we do about the Wasp and Stinger?

These 'mechs are staples of the Battletech universe, with the Locust, the most common 'mechs in the Inner Sphere by a long shot. These two 'mechs are cheap, are still in production, were made in *huge* numbers, and have lots and lots of spare parts. It would be a shame not to include them in MWO (and by extension HBS' upcoming title) but these little guys are going to face some struggles. How do we make them viable, if we can?

A 20 ton humanoid light will really struggle to be effective in MWO. They well be small, smaller than a Commando, but will both lack hard points and tonnage to use them. They will at least be fast and jump capable. Should there be role warfare, the little guys do make effective scouts more mobile (though slower) than the Locust due to jump jets, for a tiny investment in tonnage, so they've got that going for them. Offensively, they're weak tea.

The bigger issue is this - it will take PGI about the same effort to concept, model, rig, and skin the Wasp (and Stinger) as it will a 75 ton heavy or 100 ton assault that will absolutely sell better at any cash price. Buyers are already hesitating on the 20$/40$+15$ price point that the Phenix Hawk package has been issued at. They *will* have a problem paying 20$ for three Wasps or Stingers, much less 15$ for a 20 ton hero. But PGI has to recoup their development cost somewhere. How can they manage this?

My first thought is this: Make the Wasp, Stinger, and Valkyrie share as much geometry as possible, so the costs for making all three is closer to making one chassis with two special geometry variants. This may hit a snag with the Valkyrie needing to be slightly larger in size. It may also underwhelm buyers because the Wasp and Stinger might only have, say, different heads (but perhaps the same cockpit to save costs) making them otherwise very similar. But it might allow PGI to develop (and sell) three light 'mech chassis for slightly more than the cost of one.

That would, in theory, allow them to sell all three as a single 'Collector pack' at something close to the current collector pack prices. A buyer could reasonably object to 20$ for three 20 ton 'mechs, what about 20$ for nine? (40$ for nine plus three (S) variants?)

Other options might be 3 Valkyries for 20$, (collectors 40$), with 3 Stingers a 15$ add on, 3 Wasps as a 15$ add-on, with (S) Collectors of each another 15$ each.

Perhaps they could even skip the heroes (for now) in order to keep the development costs down? (and issue heroes the 'old way' for the MC/ton cost?)

Note: If we had an R&R system, the Wasp/Stinger (and Locust) could be given major discounts, to make them the most efficient 'mechs to run on a pure cost basis (good for grinding C-Bills when you are poor). But of course, we don't, so that's moot, unless we get one someday for CW.


TLDR: It costs PGI as much to model the Wasp or Stinger as a bigger, more valuable 'mech. How can they recoup that cost and make the pack worth it?

I dont see the problem. just make them and release them

[Clownwarlord]

I am going to laugh when PGI goes to sell one of these light mechs on its own for the same cost of an assault mech.

[SkaerKrow]

A $40 offering of the Stinger, Wasp, and Valkyrie in a triple pack, with two regular variants and one S variant apiece. including some premium time and other doo-dads thrown in, seems like it would be a good approach. Three hero variants could be add-ons, maybe $10 apiece, meaning that the "complete" pack would be $70, netting you 12 mechs, premium time, and whatever else they toss in to sweeten the deal. Ala carte' choices would run $15, meaning if you only wanted say the Wasp and its hero, you'd be out $25.

In my estimation, this is a fitting balance berween PGI needing money, and players wanting value for their money.

[Johnny Z]

SkaerKrow, on 04 March 2016 - 01:36 AM, said:

A $40 offering of the Stinger, Wasp, and Valkyrie in a triple pack, with two regular variants and one S variant apiece. including some premium time and other doo-dads thrown in, seems like it would be a good approach. Three hero variants could be add-ons, maybe $10 apiece, meaning that the "complete" pack would be $70, netting you 12 mechs, premium time, and whatever else they toss in to sweeten the deal. Ala carte' choices would run $15, meaning if you only wanted say the Wasp and its hero, you'd be out $25.

In my estimation, this is a fitting balance berween PGI needing money, and players wanting value for their money.

Why not take the opportunity here to change up the standard pricing a bit and offer a truly low budget package. No need to drop the prices on current packages but instead add a super low budget package.

Lets face it 20 dollars has been the bottom price for all packs up till now mostly, maybe a bit higher and that isn't a lot to ask. Especially when it isn't even required to play in any way. A player can wait a bit and its all in game for "free" anyway.

But if they offered a 10$ pack here that has to be a smart, even obvious move.

Like 10$ for a Sting trio of mechs, same for a Wasp Trio etc. 5$ for each of the hero's? If they use the same cockpit and geo that is...

I think they may go this route it makes so much sense, I probly spoiled the surprise.

The Valkyrie isn in the topic title so I'm ignoring it.

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 March 2016 - 02:29 AM.

[RAM]

Malleus011, on 03 March 2016 - 12:56 PM, said:

Maybe a Stinger, made from re-used Phoenix Hawk bits and a new head?



Perhaps a Wasp, made from re-scaled Phoenix Hawk bits?

Awesome work! Are you able to apply the special camo by chance? Regardless, would definitely buy!

Clearly the approach PGI should be taking is crowd-funding like they did with the Urbie. If the pre-sales do well, they create the mech(s); if not, no matter.

Logically the next step after selling us mechs that are not yet in game is selling us mechs that are not yet made. After that, it is a short slide to selling us mechs that may never be made

Interesting concept: could the community start crowdfunding mechs for PGI...? Queued in order of greatest funding

Anyway, I leave that for someone else as I am busy trying to correct the Phoenix Hawk 'Special' error!


RAM
ELH

[Malleus011]

Preorder/crowdfunding might be a good way for them to tell if there is enough demand for the normal treatment of the Wasp/Stinger, or if they need to be 'budget' versions.

[Mole]

Whatever the case may be, I will happily accept any new light mechs they want to throw in. I'm all out of light mechs to master and I love my light mechs. moar lights plox.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Mole, on 04 March 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

Whatever the case may be, I will happily accept any new light mechs they want to throw in. I'm all out of light mechs to master and I love my light mechs. moar lights plox.

Don't worry, PGI will take your money. So is mastering a mech your endgame? Just curious....I mean it is a simple thing to do but I am just wondering since the game is stale that can't be how you really get your jollies off in this game can it?

[Mole]

GRiPSViGiL, on 04 March 2016 - 10:25 AM, said:

Don't worry, PGI will take your money. So is mastering a mech your endgame? Just curious....I mean it is a simple thing to do but I am just wondering since the game is stale that can't be how you really get your jollies off in this game can it?

I enjoy leveling 'mechs. I master one chassis, and then move on to the next. My older mechs do still see play, but it's usually only when I have basiced a certain variant of the chassis that I am currently working on but do not have enough CBills to purchase and equip the next variant. Eventually I wish to have a favorite variant of each chassis in my mechbays and have it mastered. I hear a good number of people have already achieved this goal, but for me, a guy who likes to play hard and fast for a few months and then take a few months break, new mechs are getting released faster than I am mastering. Or at least they were back before these single mech packs started coming out and everything was in groups of 4 chassis per pack.