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Competitive Map 4V4B Feedback Request


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#1 Paul Inouye

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 01:51 PM

Hello folks,

I am looking for feedback on the small team competitive maps that are currently available in Private Matches only. It is imperative to get community feedback, especially the competitive teams, as to what is working and what isn't in terms of these map layouts. I have received feedback from a few of the top competitive teams already and am looking forward to more from everyone who is looking forward to what might be termed as the S-word 7. Posted Image

A special note about 4v4B. This was initially intended to be a free-for-all map. However, due to game mode restrictions (at this current time) we are keeping it a 4v4 for now.


Thanks in advance!

#2 Rushin Roulette

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 12:26 AM

Map is OK, but definitely needs much more work (and im not talking about the random missing junk, as this is perfect for a competitive Solaris styled map).

Random spawns are terrible if it is a team vs. team game. We tested it over and over trying to find any logic in the spawn point system, but there was none in the end. It didnt matter if players were grouped in lances, what order they were in or which lances they were set as (combined or separate). If you want a tactical aspect for team vs. team, then change the spawns from random to fixed. If it were a Solaris based all vs all, then the spawn points should stay as it is, but not for this mode.

The second point is the need to go into the central area to move anywhere. An external ring connecting each spawn points is needed so that singe mechs spawning far from their teammates have a chance of safely moving out of fire. To slow down light mech rushes, there could be walls covering half the ring staggered left and right alternatively.

My final point would be the colours. Team 2 has a massive initial advantage over team 1, as they spawn on the darker side. Seeing your opponents on the dark blue or green background is much harder than seeing a mech outlined on bright yellow or orange.
Maybe change the colours to dark grey/white alternatively like a round chessboard to give each side a 50% chance of good backgrounds.

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 08 March 2016 - 12:28 AM.


#3 Hadrogh

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 03:41 AM

My Team trained a lot on this map and participated in the Dudes 4v4 Tournament.

I contrast to Map A we really disliked this one. Rushin already made good points in general.
I like to add, that a range advantage on this map is crucial. Nearly all matches where decided just by killing the enemy team with better range.
It's extremly hard to close in without getting torn apart. Especially since the top area has no cover at all. For some reason those big walls have only the big gap behind them, rendering the only object apart from the big block on top of the stairs as useless against fire from other parts of the platform.
Combined with the spawns across the map (which already sets the team with better range in an advantage because they can simply stay where they are and start firing after 10secs into the match while the other team needs to group up first which is a lot of free damage taken) and the extremy long way to get from the lower area to the top (the stairway is so long that when you finally closed to a sniper he can simply move away because the path for the ascending team is so long) their is no way to win against an equally strong oponent with better range.
On a plus side, this map feels actually awesome if nobody picks ERLL or equivalent long range weaponry.
You can play around a lot with positioning and getting an other angle on the enemy team, using the ridge to the center of the map and the small hills. Jumpjets are fun too, to shift the dynamic of the battle within seconds. All in all it really rewards the team with better coordination. But then again: There's no chance against ERLL Gameplay.

Some small ideas:

1. Make the big blocks inaccessible with jumpjets or lower them alot - the situation gets even worse if their are ERLL snipers on the blocks. On Map A that's fine because the blocks are low enough that you can apply pressure once you reached the team. On Map B you can't get shots on the sniper on the block because it's to high - and you get shot from the other side.

2. Shorten the stairs

3. These "inner balconys" should be removed. They make free shots way to easy because you can shoot at every possible angle the enemy is using to reach you. Their are already big gaps at the top which allow shooting from afar. At least their would be some risk involved in using these and you need to reposition if the enemy is on the move.

4. Maybe combine the center hills to a single object and increase their height a bit. This would allow quick maneuvers to the top with jumpjets without beeing a free pick from the opposite sides and would alow crossing the map alot easier which would lead to more dynamic and interesting games.

5. Add a small walkable area behind the big walls. Would be nice to have some cover on top. That would be even nice for sniper gameplay because at the moment you want to hillhump in 90% of the cases (Blackjack, Stalker etc.) and would other chassis allow to work well in that role too.


Looking forward to these changes. The basic idea of the map is cool, just needs some tuning. Posted Image

Edited by Hadrogh, 08 March 2016 - 05:07 AM.


#4 Rushin Roulette

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 06:15 AM

Ahh, one other thing I forgot to mention, but that affects all test maps (not only this particular one) is the out of bounds markers should be lower under the floor and cleaner on some of the edges.

It was a running joke, that you would get an out of bounds announcement every time you tapped your jumpjets. Its not game breaking at all... but its deffintiely wierd and slightly distracting to hear out of bounds...out of bounds...out of bounds during a brawl while you were jumping around your opponent in the middle of a map.

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 08 March 2016 - 06:15 AM.


#5 Danjo San

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 11:47 AM

I am really loving this map. The layout works great for me. I have to agree on some of Hadroghs ideas.

You need a hinch more of cover from ERLL fire, something that lets you move closer up to make up for the range disadvantage if you are running a Mid-Range Mech.
And there definetly should be a small walkway behind the large walls on top to move behind.

#6 Koniving

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 08:00 AM

I disagree with Rushin Roulette on the change from random to fixed. Dynamic spawns are actually pretty sweet especially with changing against a 'monotonous' routine that is pretty much every other gamemode and map.

What it could use, however, is a bit more sense to how they are spawning. For example grouping them together temporarily, or spawn 2, 2, 2, and 2.

The rest is very much agreed to.

#7 Deathlike

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 03:14 PM

Two things:

1) Fix the OOB "problems" on this map. While not gamebreaking, it's disturbing at the very least.

2) Make the ramps to the upper level more accessible from both sides of the ramp. Having it only work for one side limits accessibility.

That's it.

#8 Paul Inouye

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 11:07 AM

Thanks for the feedback so far folks. Notes taken and you'll see adjustments made to these maps soon.

* Yes this message was copied and pasted 3 times but the sentiment is the same. You guys are driving the direction of these maps with your feedback!

#9 Scout Derek

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 01:48 PM

For me, like others have said, range really is the winning factor on this one.

Per say, when doing a 4v4, someone on the other side brought a brawling build, but couldn't get close, but by the time he eventually did, he was banged up from all the lasers that had softened him up.

In short, maybe more cover in certain open areas could help a lot, because when it's a 4v4, there's better movement as a lance as to a whole company of mechs.

#10 Tarogato

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 07:59 AM

View PostPaul Inouye, on 24 March 2016 - 11:07 AM, said:

Thanks for the feedback so far folks. Notes taken and you'll see adjustments made to these maps soon.

* Yes this message was copied and pasted 3 times but the sentiment is the same. You guys are driving the direction of these maps with your feedback!


Appreciate it! Excited to see the next stage. Hopefully April patch?

#11 Paul Inouye

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 10:53 AM

Just to square up development on these maps, I'm going to draw a line in the sand and ask for further feedback from this point on. Our new Level Designer Liz will be tracking your feedback and will check in with you as updates are released in the patches.

#12 Panzermagistratus

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 05:04 PM

Paul I just want you to know I've been dying for a free for all mode forever.

#13 TheWatchman

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 08:17 PM

My 2 cents:
In my clan I regularly use this map for training purposes in both combat and lore. If possible some things such as what follows would be nice and I'll explain why.
1: The raised paltform areas close to the center grey circle made higher but kept the same top size.

OR

1.5: lower the area in the grey circle to make it hard to see over the areas between the raised points.

Why: Zellbringen primarily but also would give some variance to the area rather than a flat zone. We use it as an excellent staging area for 1 on 1 combat with people watching over it. Lore wise I think you can all see why this would be advantageous for people do lore based combat (as my clan unit does very often). Combat wise it would add more height variables for the lower areas.

2: The back areas and raised paltforms on edges refined or edited somewhat.

Why: they are not very useful for mech combat. It's the sort of thing we see in halo not MWO. Big changes are not what I am suggesting but rather editing to make it more "mech friendly".

Other than those sugestions I love the map and as I said use it quite frequently for training in both regular combat and lore combat such as various forms of zellbringen.

#14 ManusDei

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 05:44 PM

Paul as you can easily observe from the recent tourny matches that 8 vs 8 is perfect. You certainly don't see 8 people running in a circle around the map leaving the assaults behind to get focused down by a chase the dog's tail strategy currently implemented in many of today's online matches. Less is better. 4 v 4 is a good match. Free for all is for the mcdonald generation of pilots that care for nothing but respawning and have absolutely NO DESIRE to play using any kind of strategy other than to run and gun like many other games. I think it would give those types of pilots that prefer to go fast, gotta run, leroy jenkins mentality an outlet and make the larger matches with 12 vs 12 a bit more qualitative. do it.

#15 ManusDei

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 05:57 PM

View PostScout Derek, on 24 March 2016 - 01:48 PM, said:

because when it's a 4v4, there's better movement as a lance as to a whole company of mechs.


Few pilots understand bounding over watch techniques for moving troops across a map. (i.e. moving cover to cover). Everyone just bunches up and hopes for the best marching straight through a bottleneck. Pilots end up marching over each other like a stampede of bulls. It's the reason why the so called deathball is so effective because no one understands how to create over lapping lanes of fire and defend a bottleneck or protect the corners of the formation. The game is not deficient in movement its the lack of drop commanders experience in properly putting resources where you need them.





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