12 replies to this topic

[Gentleman Reaper]

So this is my impressions on the current balance of equipment in the game. I'd like to thank Scout Derek and Sandpit for the suggestion of splitting up my original post into segments as well as how to make everything here easier to read, as I have little experience making posts on these forums. Please keep it civil in here and bring your own ideas on how else certain things can be balanced.

Ferro-Fibrous Armor:

Spoiler

How it is now:
I really don't feel it's worth it most of the time with how bulky it is, it's not really an issue as it is, but I feel like it should be worth giving up bulky weapons and/or Endo-Steel to use. In TT the main balancing factor for FF vs Endo is that it's much cheaper to repair or replace, a factor which doesn't exist in MWO.
How it should be changed:
I think there should be maybe a damage reduction factor added in, I know that this would make it somewhat like the as-yet-unintroduced Ferro-Lamellor armor, but it would be the only way to buff it. As I said earlier though, this really isn't an issue at the moment, and would fully understand if PGI has no plans to change it.

Clan XL Engine:

Spoiler

How it is now:
It's plainly obvious that Clan XLs are flat-out better in every way to IS XLs, and while some people might argue that it makes up for Omni-mechs having fixed engines, Omni-mechs with perfectly sized engines like the Stormcrow and Timber Wolf as well as Clan Battlemechs completely circumvent this issue.

How it should be changed:
There should be greater penalties for losing a side torso, like further reduced speed and a much greater heat penalty, enough to have a huge impact on energy boats. This only addresses what should happen with a torso loss, if you really want to give an actual negative over an IS XL, then maybe lower structure health in the side torsos, with weaker omnimechs getting quirks to undo this.

After reading some comments perhaps buffing the structure on STDs and IS XLs would be a far better idea, as Clan mechs really don't need to get squishier than they already are with the lack of quirks.

Anti-Missile System:

Spoiler

How it is now:
Hard to say... While it does reduce the amount of missiles that can hit you, it doesn't seem to do enough to make most people carry it, as it's a rarity in most matches.
How it should be changed:
Perhaps an increase to range and/or rate of fire would make it more viable equipment.

Beagle Active Probe:

Spoiler

How it is now:
Honestly, how many people here even use this? The sensor range bonus isn't really worth anything since people just shoot at anything that moves anyway, and the ECM countering isn't anywhere as useful as it used to be since the ECM field was cut in half in one of the patches.
How it should be changed:
Like I said, the sensor range buff isn't really worth much since there isn't an unspotted invisibility system like in World of Tanks, but maybe giving a 50% sensor range boost might make it easier for your team to see people that you've spotted. As for its ability to spot mechs with sensor masking systems like ECM, it can have its range increased, but its effectiveness is mostly reliant on how powerful ECM is (which I'll go over later). An added effect could maybe be near instantaneous target scanning if it's within your BAP's range, allowing you to quickly assess how to engage the target if rounding a corner.

C.A.S.E.:

Spoiler

How it is now:
With the ability to mount ammo in the legs, all-energy loadouts being the norm in the current meta, and it being useless on XL equipped mechs, CASE's use is very limited.
How it should be changed:
It's important to not make it too similar to the future CASE II, unless they make CASE prevent explosion damage to the torso, and CASE II prevent ammo or weapons from exploding in the first place. Otherwise, make it greatly reduce the damage of explosions so that they probably won't destroy the protected torso (although I like the first idea more).

Command Console:

Spoiler

How it is now:
Pretty much a much weaker Targeting Computer (especially since they were buffed in the last patch), the CC isn't at all worth the rather heavy 3 tons needed to mount it. Right now, it provides tiny buffs to sensor range, zoom range, and target info time.
How it should be changed:
My idea is to make it work like ECM, except instead of masking their presence from enemy sensors, anyone within it's "bubble" recieves a decent boost to their radar range, target info time, and (if the PTS info warfare changes actually gets implemented) a reduction to how distance affects your target info time. These changes would make the CC actually benefit the team like it's supposed to in lore, rather than only affecting the equipped mech.

ECM:

Spoiler

How it is now:
Since its bubble radius was halved to just 90 meters in one of the patches, the ECM has seen a large decrease in use. While the user still benefits from the sensor cloaking, other mechs have to be practically hugging you to receive its benefits, making it a lot less useful for team use.
How it should be changed:
Increase the bubble radius to 120 meters, this is between the current 90 meters and the pre-nerf 180 meter radius. This would be enough to mask a small group effectively, while (hopefully) preventing it from becoming too powerful, like it used to be. Of course, like I mentioned earlier, BAP would become a much more effective tool if ECM becomes more useful and commonly used.

Jump-Jets:

Spoiler

How it is now:
I don't think it needs being said that Heavy and Assault mechs barely get any lift with JJs, especially with how heavy Assault level JJs are (2 tons per jet).
How it should be changed:
Greatly increase thrust, so that with enough JJs the heavier mechs can actually hop up terrain effectively, and make it a hell of a surprise to see a Highlander or Victor appear out of nowhere.

MASC:

Spoiler

How it is now:
I honestly think it's perfect since the last patch, before the tiny speed boost wasn't really worth the tonnage, and the acceleration boosts didn't have as much of an impact on lighter mechs than heavier ones like the Executioner. But now the speed boost gives you the speed of a mech 2/3rds the weight.
How it should be changed:
It shouldn't, MASC is now a viable piece of kit which is very much worth the price of admission.

Narc Beacon:

Spoiler

How it is now:
A powerful piece of equipment for a mech of any weight class. Scout mechs can use it to call a barrage of LRM fire down on a target without exposing themselves like with a TAG, lighter LRM platforms like the Trebuchet can peak over a hill and mark a target and fire over the hill in relative safety, and heavier mechs can use it to keep track of fast units that outpace it. The only thing worth mentioning is the lack of targeting assistance for SRMs, like it's supposed to have in lore.
How it should be changed:
The only thing that needs to be implemented is allow SRMs to have slight homing capabilities on marked units, although it's possible that technical issues are what's preventing it from being implemented.

Targeting Computer:

Spoiler

How it is now:
The recent buff to TGs was a welcome change, but there's still not enough incentive to mount the heavier units. The laser range boost, on the other hand, was not. Clan lasers already have a significant range advantage over IS models, a further boost was not necessary, especially with IS energy range quirks being cut down, and frankly makes no sense as it doesn't follow the TC's philosophy of aiding accuracy.
How it should be changed:
Give even greater bonuses for heavier computers,especially for zoom and crit chance, and change the laser range boost for a shorter laser duration, as this would make it easier to focus damage on a single point.

Edited by Elit3 Nick, 09 March 2016 - 01:48 PM.

[Mcgral18]

FF with bonus damage resist could be a positive change, attach a quirk to it...but that buffs the God Tier Clams as much as any other.
You could reduce FF size on the IS side, 10 or fewer slots, and buff it to the same 20% of the Clam FF.

Cannot support reducing cXL side torso structure, or even increasing their penalties (maybe another 5% at worst).
I'd rather buff the isXL and STD. Would you ever choose an STD over a cXL


The Jesus Box never had its most powerful attribute touched: the Magic Jesus Field. The thing which quarters your sensor range and makes LRMs worthless and require 2.5 tons of tax to use mediocrely.

Adjust the 'targetingfactor' from 0.25 to something closer to 0.5 IMO, and it can keep the 180M bubble.


For CASE, I would do exactly what you want to avoid: turn isCASE into CASEII with normal CASE weight, but the CASEII performance.
Leave weightless Clam case as it stands.

[XtremWarrior]

I like your ideas for the most part, especially the Command Console giving a boost to your team sensor's in a radius. Team effects are quite rare in MWO.
I also think ECM should have their radius increased a bit or something to give them a less selfish role on the battlefield (team effects again).

And Jump Jets, well... it's a lost cause i guess.
(Though, since i started to level up mys ShadowCats, i realised that with MASC, JJ become incredibly fun again!)

EDIT: I also think that clan XLs are in a rather good spot and that IS STD and XL should have a boost somewhere to give players a reason to use them.

Edited by XtremWarrior, 09 March 2016 - 01:09 PM.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Mcgral18, on 09 March 2016 - 01:00 PM, said:

FF with bonus damage resist could be a positive change, attach a quirk to it...but that buffs the God Tier Clams as much as any other.
You could reduce FF size on the IS side, 10 or fewer slots, and buff it to the same 20% of the Clam FF.

Yes, I was thinking about how an FF buff would affect Clan mechs, although I didn't know how to suggest it without making Clan FF some kind of light FF with damage reduction vs IS FF being more powerful. Also reducing FF slots is a very good idea, although increasing the weight savings wouldn't work with the mechlab being copied from TT, you would have many stock builds with FF suddenly have unallocated tonnage.

Mcgral18, on 09 March 2016 - 01:00 PM, said:

Cannot support reducing cXL side torso structure, or even increasing their penalties (maybe another 5% at worst).
I'd rather buff the isXL and STD. Would you ever choose an STD over a cXL

That's also a good suggestion, I know many people would be opposed to making Clan mechs squishier, so maybe buffing the structure on STDs and IS XLs would be a much better idea.

Mcgral18, on 09 March 2016 - 01:00 PM, said:

For CASE, I would do exactly what you want to avoid: turn isCASE into CASEII with normal CASE weight, but the CASEII performance.
Leave weightless Clam case as it stands.

That is what I alluded to, with CASE preventing explosion damage (like CASE II does in TT) and CASE II preventing ammo from being destroyed in the first place, so it acts as a sort of armor for ammo.

Edited by Elit3 Nick, 09 March 2016 - 01:19 PM.

[Gentleman Reaper]

XtremWarrior, on 09 March 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

I like your ideas for the most part, especially the Command Console giving a boost to your team sensor's in a radius. Team effects are quite rare in MWO.
I also think ECM should have their radius increased a bit or something to give them a less selfish role on the battlefield (team effects again).

And Jump Jets, well... it's a lost cause i guess.
(Though, since i started to level up mys ShadowCats, i realised that with MASC, JJ become incredibly fun again!)

EDIT: I also think that clan XLs are in a rather good spot and that IS STD and XL should have a boost somewhere to give players a reason to use them.

I'm having so much fun in my Shadow Cat with the MASC buffs. With two LPLs, ECM and a MkII TG, it's a sneaky sniper that can come out of unexpected nooks and crannies.

[Scout Derek]

Err, duplicates of the thread?

[thehiddenedge]

Mcgral18, on 09 March 2016 - 01:00 PM, said:

Cannot support reducing cXL side torso structure, or even increasing their penalties (maybe another 5% at worst).
I'd rather buff the isXL and STD. Would you ever choose an STD over a cXL

The answer to that question is of course no. There is really nothing to make a Std engine even remotely appealing compared to cXL. Even on the IS side, the trade off for weight savings and speed makes isXL much better than Std's in most mechs. Std engines need something to make them more attractive besides side torso loss. Perhaps a boost to twist speed?

Scout Derek, on 09 March 2016 - 01:34 PM, said:

Err, duplicates of the thread?

No, this one is about mech equipment. The other one is about Weapon Balance.

Edited by thehiddenedge, 09 March 2016 - 01:38 PM.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Scout Derek, on 09 March 2016 - 01:34 PM, said:

Err, duplicates of the thread?

Nope, although it might be easy to read the topic as the same.

[Scout Derek]

Elit3 Nick, on 09 March 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

Nope, although it might be easy to read the topic as the same.

Okay, just a jumble to read today.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Reserved for questions and proposal of alternates. Also a demand for a title change as there was no statistical analysis.

[Exilyth]

For an in depth analysis, not much data is given.

[Anyone00]

Anti-Missile System: I agree with OP.

C.A.S.E.: Give it additional 'everybody gets one' effect negating one ammo explosion for each section equipped (for that section).

Command Console: In addition to what the OP suggested maybe also modules that allow the CC to set 'saturation points' that can be targeted by allies with LRMs (with a much greater spread) and by air/artillery strikes; or a 'Satellite Uplink' that basically that gives the mech a camera floating a few dozen meters above the mech that can be switched to (but takes a second or so for the image to come up and the image is really grainy and full or artifacts).

ECM: on the mech it's equipped it reduces detection range by 30%. In a 180m or even 200m bubble it increases lock-on time and lose lock time by 20%, no mech info, and hard counters NARC beacons even on the equipped mech. The up close disruption effect is the same.

Jump-Jets:
Yeah I'm going to advocate re-invention the wheel here.
For starters the reticle shake applies to every mech not just going up but also in free fall. The amount of reticle shake is according to a 'jump/fall stability rating' that goes to 0 to 100. At 0 the reticle never stabilize beyond what you would see running with MASC even at the jump's apogee. At 50 it is about what it is now. At 100 there is no reticle shake at all. The rule of thumb is the 'jump/fall stability rating' is 100 minus the mech's tonnage; the adjusted on a per model basis.
And on top of that change jump jets to burst based where a 100 ton mech with 4 JJs will jump about as high and as fast as a 20 ton mech with 4 JJs; it just takes longer for the 100 mech to build up the burst (plus the stability thing). Also when something like a Highlander is building up a jump everybody in the general vicinity knows it.
Also turning in air takes a bit of the JJ bar.
And here's the part people will be complaining 'too much like animu': on mechs with the base model that has JJs in addition to releasing the space bar for a largely vertical burst a direction can be quickly double tapped that splits the burst between the vertical and the direction tapped.

Edited by Anyone00, 09 March 2016 - 04:59 PM.

[SplashDown]

clan has been nerfed enuff and doesnt need anymore nerf tyvm