13 replies to this topic

[Snazzy Dragon]

Before you even start reading: Yes, I am somewhat new to the game, no, I'm not 100% familiar with the BattleTech universe, and no, I'm not here to whine. I simply wish to share my observations.

Ever since IS laser ranges were standardized, clan mechs have, of course, outperformed at range. While I wouldn't mark this as an issue in normal play (given IS mechs have far more quirks and better heat management), it's seems to be a bit of a problem in CW. For one, every single clan drop I have seen has been bolstered by units and experienced players, whereas about 90% of the IS drops have been mixed and riddled with people that seem to be not so familiar with the game.

Basically, the clanners are being smart and using/abusing their range advantages on the very, very open CW maps, using coordination (focusing fire, taking better positions under the guidance of more experienced players, using NARC and TAG to their advantages, ect.). IS players are not as coordinated in a drop and end up chewed through by lrms and er large lasers, then finished off in a push that leaves the score far in favor of the clanners.

The only successful strategy I've witnessed is to loosely cluster at a gate and charge out as they open, forcing the long range clan builds to brawl; in which they normally don't hold up to the quirked mechs built for mid range. Problem is; where are the IS units? How can what seems to be newer players using trial mechs mixed in with the frustrated IS players that do have the experience hope to coordinate well enough to make an effective defense against the clanners, or an offensive push?

It just doesn't happen very often, and I question if CW is taking the right direction to become an enjoyable game mode for everyone.

TL;DR (OPINION/OBSERVATION, NOT FACT; FEEL FREE TO DISCUSS): IS isn't coordinated often enough to survive the long range attacks and pushes done by the clanners and the units working together, and IS mechs can't compete at long range. Clans are weighted heavily in favor of in the faction play. Also, Stormcrow's hands are... cute.

[AlphaToaster]

The game mode rewards aggression so the clans have a bit of an advantage with regards to uncoordinated pugs, because on average the mech speeds are somewhat normalized with their locked engines. This makes it easier to stay grouped up. It doesn't take much effort to hold down W, and generally see the deathball form up.

But for IS, the engines can be all over the place. My Atlas moves at 63+, but the next one might move at 55. This requires more effort to collect into a deathball. It's MUCH MUCH harder because now there are some people who mash W, and some who have to (gasp) slow down and wait for the heavier slower mechs. For some pugs, to slow down is just too much to ask.

So right there, you have one side in a deathball and the other spread out with their heaviest most armored mechs at the back of their strung out line.

It's not IS vs Clan, so much as general apathy with a touch of anti-social behavior with the aversion to communicate with unknown persons on the same team.

That last part is the barrier IS pugs have to overcome in addition to the speed differences in order to overcome a Clan unit or premade.

On another note, IS mechs with quirks out range Clans. Just look for those mechs, build them to their quirk strengths, and play them accordingly.

On Boreal, the biggest single mistake ANY attacker (clan or IS) can make is to not push the gate. The map is horrendous for the attackers up to the broken drop ship. There's not enough cover to fight out of that space. For attackers on Boreal (clan or IS), push into the gate and brawl inside the gate area C6/B6/E6/F6 area. Make the fight between just inside the gates and the connector just outside the gates. On Boreal its more about the tactical fails of passive players who won't push.

Think of Boreal like the beaches of Normandy on D-day. Not pushing the gate is effectively refusing to leave the beach.

Edited by AlphaToaster, 09 March 2016 - 04:43 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Most the good Clan teams I've played with miss their IS decks. The IS deck is generally stronger. If you're getting poked at range, stay in cover. Where youyou see people getting creamed by cerlls they're making bad trades and lingering in the open.

Don't do tjat.

[Snazzy Dragon]

AlphaToaster, on 09 March 2016 - 04:26 PM, said:

The game mode rewards aggression so the clans have a bit of an advantage with regards to uncoordinated pugs, because on average the mech speeds are somewhat normalized with their locked engines. This makes it easier to stay grouped up. It doesn't take much effort to hold down W, and generally see the deathball form up.

But for IS, the engines can be all over the place. My Atlas moves at 63+, but the next one might move at 55. This requires more effort to collect into a deathball. It's MUCH MUCH harder because now there are some people who mash W, and some who have to (gasp) slow down and wait for the heavier slower mechs. For some pugs, to slow down is just too much to ask.

So right there, you have one side in a deathball and the other spread out with their heaviest most armored mechs at the back of their strung out line.

It's not IS vs Clan, so much as general apathy with a touch of anti-social behavior with the aversion to communicate with unknown persons on the same team.

That last part is the barrier IS pugs have to overcome in addition to the speed differences in order to overcome a Clan unit or premade.

On another note, IS mechs with quirks out range Clans. Just look for those mechs, build them to their quirk strengths, and play them accordingly.

1.) Heavily agreed on the speed vs. lack of communication, that's part of the problem with IS; uncoordinated, split teams do absolutely awful, with faster mechs dying first and blaming the heavies for not backing them up.. and then the heavies blame the lights for rushing and dying, leaving them easy targets.

2.) That would have been the case if laser ranges weren't standardized; if a mech has increased range, it's only a 10% boost. It doesn't match up to the clans' better natural ranges, even with a range module (since clans will be packing the range modules, too!). Clan mechs will almost always win trades at range.

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 09 March 2016 - 05:12 PM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

MischiefSC, on 09 March 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:

Most the good Clan teams I've played with miss their IS decks. The IS deck is generally stronger. If you're getting poked at range, stay in cover. Where you see people getting creamed by cerlls they're making bad trades and lingering in the open.

Don't do that.

I personally don't poke against clan mechs unless it's at mid/close range and around a safe/safeish corner. However, that doesn't stop the pug players or new players that seem to choose faction play first.. and they're not always willing to coordinate or listen to their teammates ("you're not my mom!").

IS decks are stronger at mid to close range, I agree; clan decks are prepared for long range because it's an obvious advantage. Just pick off the pokers, soften up the general team, and make the push; it usually goes downhill for IS teams from there.

[MechWarrior4023212]

Snazzy Dragon, on 09 March 2016 - 04:11 PM, said:

Before you even start reading: Yes, I am somewhat new to the game, no, I'm not 100% familiar with the BattleTech universe, and no, I'm not here to whine. I simply wish to share my observations.

Ever since IS laser ranges were standardized, clan mechs have, of course, outperformed at range. While I wouldn't mark this as an issue in normal play (given IS mechs have far more quirks and better heat management), it's seems to be a bit of a problem in CW. For one, every single clan drop I have seen has been bolstered by units and experienced players, whereas about 90% of the IS drops have been mixed and riddled with people that seem to be not so familiar with the game.

Clan are supposed to have a greater range, this fix just put it back to where it was supposed to be.

[MischiefSC]

Snazzy Dragon, on 09 March 2016 - 05:10 PM, said:

I personally don't poke against clan mechs unless it's at mid/close range and around a safe/safeish corner. However, that doesn't stop the pug players or new players that seem to choose faction play first.. and they're not always willing to coordinate or listen to their teammates ("you're not my mom!").

IS decks are stronger at mid to close range, I agree; clan decks are prepared for long range because it's an obvious advantage. Just pick off the pokers, soften up the general team, and make the push; it usually goes downhill for IS teams from there.

Clan pugs are worse - significantly worse. You can put a lot of stupid in a Clan mech.

The difference though is just population. There are more IS pugs and a lot of unit's have gone Clan. So you'll see more is pugs than Clan. Also defending you'll be pugs vs units most the time.

If IS players were smarter they would fill the attack queue. You eat maybe 1 ghost but the Clan pugs show. With no Clan v Clan action going on the Clan borders tend to be quiet.

[AlphaToaster]

Snazzy Dragon, on 09 March 2016 - 05:05 PM, said:

1.) Heavily agreed on the speed vs. lack of communication, that's part of the problem with IS; uncoordinated, split teams do absolutely awful, with faster mechs dying first and blaming the heavies for not backing them up.. and then the heavies blame the lights for rushing and dying, leaving them easy targets.

2.) That would have been the case if laser ranges weren't standardized; if a mech has increased range, it's only a 10% boost. It doesn't match up to the clans' better natural ranges, even with a range module (since clans will be packing the range modules, too!). Clan mechs will almost always win trades at range.

With regard to #2, I believe they only normalized the bonuses across the board to 10% for the general weapon buffs, but there should still be some chassis that have weapon specific range buffs on top of the general buffs. I'm not home yet so I can't check my mechlab, but I'll post some specific ER LL quirked mechs later. I think there's a couple stalkers, a battlemaster, a quickdraw, one of the BJ's are very good for long range. These are the IS range kings that I wouldn't trade with, even in a 4 erLL hellbringer when we were clans.

*Edit*

So I just checked and I guess only the Stalker-4N had another 5% Large Laser range on top of 10%. Most of the weapon specific quirks were for Large Pulse laser 10% or Medium Laser 10% range on top of the base energy 10% range. I didn't realize how few of the IS mechs had weapon specific range buffs, that most had the base energy range buff. I guess that puts the emphasis on the chasis that have 10% Large Pulse Range quirks, with duration reduction and push in to dominate at mid range.

Edited by AlphaToaster, 09 March 2016 - 06:01 PM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

AlphaToaster, on 09 March 2016 - 05:29 PM, said:

So I just checked and I guess only the Stalker-4N had another 5% Large Laser range on top of 10%. Most of the weapon specific quirks were for Large Pulse laser 10% or Medium Laser 10% range on top of the base energy 10% range. I didn't realize how few of the IS mechs had weapon specific range buffs, that most had the base energy range buff. I guess that puts the emphasis on the chasis that have 10% Large Pulse Range quirks, with duration reduction and push in to dominate at mid range.

Here lies the problem; with the vastly differing speeds of IS mechs, and the unwillingness to slow down/coordinate, "push in to dominate at mid range" doesn't happen until it's too late and the score is 0-4 to 9-15, IS teams would rather sit back and try to outtrade clans at range.. and it's getting old.

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 09 March 2016 - 06:20 PM.

[MechWarrior4023212]

Please trade ranging shots with my 4 x C-ERLL with TC 7 and range 5 module Clan mech....

[MaxFool]

Snazzy Dragon, on 09 March 2016 - 04:11 PM, said:

TL;DR (OPINION/OBSERVATION, NOT FACT; FEEL FREE TO DISCUSS): IS isn't coordinated often enough to survive the long range attacks and pushes done by the clanners and the units working together, and IS mechs can't compete at long range. Clans are weighted heavily in favor of in the faction play.

Well yes, it's not Clan vs IS issue, it's groups vs solo PUGs issue. Clans might have more and bigger groups at the moment, but in general it's more about groups attacking and PUGs defending. The match making system is just basically garbage because it makes most sense for groups to attack (defending PUGs will almost always come) and solo PUGs to defend (because there are more planets you can defend than to attack). So the system is set up in the way where the option that gets you matches fastest in general also makes the worst match ups. Having those pop ups only makes it worse.

So while the system is garbage there are three player driven fixes for it. First, if you drop solo try to get into attacking instead of defense queues. Second, if you drop in a group, pick also defenses and don't always just attack. Third, instead of dropping solo, you can get into groups, either by joining an unit and dropping with them or by joining your faction TS server and grouping up there.

[Widowmaker1981]

MischiefSC, on 09 March 2016 - 05:20 PM, said:

Clan pugs are worse - significantly worse. You can put a lot of stupid in a Clan mech.

They really, really are NOT. Playing CW as IS recently has been a giant exercise in frustration. ill drop with one unit mate, we will do 2-3k dmg each and the rest of the team will be lucky to have 2 other people that break 1k. Enemy clan teams that look like mixed bags with mostly unitless and unknown players seem to be doing much better.

Im really happy to be back Clan tbh, im so annoyed with the GDamn IS PUGs. SO MANY GODDAMN LRM ATLASES!!

[Agent 0range]

if you are poking v clan on say AV in CW remember the clERLL has a 1.5 second burn time you can fire is ERLL and torso twist away before they finish also memorise the ranges to ridges so you know if you can hurt them or not

[Monkey Lover]

If you're attacking at some point you have to trade or push into.the long range. The "don't trade with clans" doesn't matter.

Only time you can hide from the range is on defense and for what I seen the good clan teams are taking brawling mechs on attacks.

Agent 0range, on 10 March 2016 - 06:49 AM, said:

if you are poking v clan on say AV in CW remember the clERLL has a 1.5 second burn time you can fire is ERLL and torso twist away before they finish also memorise the ranges to ridges so you know if you can hurt them or not

Clans erll does more dmg they don't need to hold it the hole 1.5 seconds to match your erll in dmg.

If they're smart.they're out ranging you so even quirks isn't going to make up for this.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 10 March 2016 - 02:27 PM.