35 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Tristan Winter, on 10 March 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

Love to see people trying to make the Orion IIC work. I will do the same for the HGN IIC when it's out for C-bills.

I think the Orion IIC is probably no better than average, but I don't think it's entirely as useless as people claim that it is. Granted, I've never played it.

It's somewhat better than average, though not perfect of course due to its somewhat blocky shape. I suspect that shape will work in its favour come the rescaling, however.

But what the Orion IIC doesn't have a problem with is firepower. You can't really laser vomit well, but every one can at least run two large pulses. With a broad spectrum of hardpoints, there are many very viable loadout styles for any range band.

It's true that the ballistics/energy hardpoints are low (as per most more humanoid mechs) but it's things like that and the shape that prevent if from being overwhelmingly good IMHO.

I don't have the C yet (waiting for cbill buying) but I'm very excited for it. Dual UAC10 is an extremely potent weapon option, one I use to betual effectiveness on my HBK IIC regularly. Being able to push a 40 damage burst at low heat from that side torso is no joke. Either as a lrmboat, midrange laser ballistic striker or close range SRM brawler, the dual uac10 is the winning choice for that mech. In all cases, it provides a lot of damage at low heat and great range.

[Inveramsay]

I've started loving my Orions again. In fact I like them so much that the timber in my CW drop deck has been replaced with an Orion A ON1-IIC-A

[Y E O N N E]

Scout Derek, on 10 March 2016 - 11:55 AM, said:

I personally prefer my Orion IIC (O). 3 Mediums, 3 SRM 6+Artemis and a UAC/20, all with the largest ammo, 3 tons of srm ammo and 3 tons of UAC/20 ammo with the rest dedicated to DHS. Mwah. Perfecto.

You can almost build the same thing on a normal Orion with a STD 300.

Almost.

[Ace Selin]

habu86, on 10 March 2016 - 12:00 PM, said:

Try it with 2x UAC-10, 3xSRM4. I run the same build on one of my WHKs. The DPS is beyond stupid.

Now that sounds like a build ill have to try, whenever i can get them for cbills.

[Wintersdark]

Inveramsay, on 10 March 2016 - 11:05 PM, said:

I've started loving my Orions again. In fact I like them so much that the timber in my CW drop deck has been replaced with an Orion A ON1-IIC-A

My CW drop deck is usually Orion IIC, TBR, MDD, HBK-IIC, and if anything my TBR is the last mech I run and least effective for me. Always lead with the ON1, and it never disappoints. You wouldn't think it, but they can tank pretty decent while maintaining firepower by sword and boarding.

[Widowmaker1981]

Main problem with the Orion-IIC is the ridiculous LT hitbox, its literally half the mechs torso area... any missile builds lose their missiles instantly. The best builds ive been able to come up with for it try to turn that weakness into a strength of sorts (if you ALWAYS lose your LT first, why not use it as a shield side?):

ON1-IIC-C

ON1-IIC-C

I prefer the first one, personally.

[Lightfoot]

Wintersdark, on 10 March 2016 - 09:10 PM, said:

It's somewhat better than average, though not perfect of course due to its somewhat blocky shape. I suspect that shape will work in its favour come the rescaling, however.

But what the Orion IIC doesn't have a problem with is firepower. You can't really laser vomit well, but every one can at least run two large pulses. With a broad spectrum of hardpoints, there are many very viable loadout styles for any range band.

It's true that the ballistics/energy hardpoints are low (as per most more humanoid mechs) but it's things like that and the shape that prevent if from being overwhelmingly good IMHO.

I don't have the C yet (waiting for cbill buying) but I'm very excited for it. Dual UAC10 is an extremely potent weapon option, one I use to betual effectiveness on my HBK IIC regularly. Being able to push a 40 damage burst at low heat from that side torso is no joke. Either as a lrmboat, midrange laser ballistic striker or close range SRM brawler, the dual uac10 is the winning choice for that mech. In all cases, it provides a lot of damage at low heat and great range.

Orion IIc has a giant CT that no one misses and if you load Missiles in it the immense volume the missile pods take up to the ST, and shoulder (which is the arm mounted missile!!!) cause the left arm to literally explode on the first volley-fire the mech takes. It just sits out there like a giant catcher's mit. Eventually you realize the Mad Cat can do almost anything the Orion IIc can, but the Mad Cat does not explode when an enemy looks at it. PGI does not want this mech to work is the feeling you get.

Edited by Lightfoot, 11 March 2016 - 01:14 AM.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Lightfoot, on 11 March 2016 - 01:14 AM, said:

Orion IIc has a giant CT that no one misses and if you load Missiles in it the immense volume the missile pods take up to the ST, and shoulder (which is the arm mounted missile!!!) cause the left arm to literally explode on the first volley-fire the mech takes. It just sits out there like a giant catcher's mit. Eventually you realize the Mad Cat can do almost anything the Orion IIc can, but the Mad Cat does not explode when an enemy looks at it. PGI does not want this mech to work is the feeling you get.

This was my experience so I shelved them. Which is disappointing because they look so much better than the original Orion imo. I finally got the HGN IIC to be decent for me after eliting it, didn't have the patience for the Orion.

[J0anna]

Tristan Winter, on 10 March 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

Love to see people trying to make the Orion IIC work. I will do the same for the HGN IIC when it's out for C-bills.

I think the Orion IIC is probably no better than average, but I don't think it's entirely as useless as people claim that it is. Granted, I've never played it.

The Orion isn't a bad mech, it takes advantage of the battlemech flexibility quite well. However the Highlander isn't, even with max engine, it's only slightly more mobile than a Dire Wolf and far more sluggish than any other assault, while I mastered it, the experience was very painful. If you want to try, just forget it has jump jets, 3 JJ on an assault is just a waste of 6 tons. PGI simply cannot implement jump jets, they have no idea how to do it. Other than that, good luck, the Highlander used to be one of my favorite TT mechs, when they released them (for the IS) they were good, now I wouldn't use the highlander IIc or the Highlander on a bet.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

If you're cheap you can chuck a STD275 and a pair of Gauss on it. It still does pretty well.

[Wintersdark]

Lightfoot, on 11 March 2016 - 01:14 AM, said:

Orion IIc has a giant CT that no one misses and if you load Missiles in it the immense volume the missile pods take up to the ST, and shoulder (which is the arm mounted missile!!!) cause the left arm to literally explode on the first volley-fire the mech takes. It just sits out there like a giant catcher's mit. Eventually you realize the Mad Cat can do almost anything the Orion IIc can, but the Mad Cat does not explode when an enemy looks at it. PGI does not want this mech to work is the feeling you get.

The madcat can't do much that I want to do with the Orion, because tonnage. My Orion builds are all 325 or 315 rated engines.

I do lose the left arm fast, but don't care because I rarely even bother to use that hardpoint at all (depends on variant). However, I've NEVER lost my CT before my LT.

[Lugh]

Graugger, on 10 March 2016 - 12:55 PM, said:

Ballistics are 4 n00bz go lazors and SRMs!

Puleeaze. Lasers are for noobs.

Anyone even Tier 5 Underhive players can get 80+ percent accuracy with the .5 damage they get on to the target with FLAILOMATIC I GONNA HIT SOMETING play.

[Chimera_]

Lightfoot, on 11 March 2016 - 01:14 AM, said:

Orion IIc has a giant CT that no one misses and if you load Missiles in it the immense volume the missile pods take up to the ST, and shoulder (which is the arm mounted missile!!!) cause the left arm to literally explode on the first volley-fire the mech takes. It just sits out there like a giant catcher's mit. Eventually you realize the Mad Cat can do almost anything the Orion IIc can, but the Mad Cat does not explode when an enemy looks at it. PGI does not want this mech to work is the feeling you get.

Except that the Mad Cat is far more limited in tonnage. In the ON1-IIC, you can use up to a 360 to still get 83 KPH w/ tweak while saving 3 tons over the Mad Cat's 375. You can even go lower, like a 325 which saves you 7 1/2 tons. The Timber still has better options for laser vomit, but the ON1-IIC can outgun it with ballistics and missiles any day.

If you're dying quickly in a ON1-IIC, you're doing something wrong. Yes, its hitboxes aren't great, but it's still a 75 tonner with 75 tonner armor. I've been doing very well in my ON1-IICs since I dusted them off a few days ago, I'd suggest trying them again if you haven't in a while. They're not OP -or as flexible as the Timber- but they're very powerful.

[zagibu]

Vickinator, on 10 March 2016 - 08:16 PM, said:

Wait people are only realizing this now?

No. I've made a thread about the IIc mechs and how ridiculously good (in theory) the combination of clan XL + battlemech flexibility is even before they came out, but everyone told me that they all suck or are mediocre at best, because they lack structure quirks. Apparently they melt like snow in the Sahara, or something. And the original IS pendants are SO MUCH BETTER, because they have quirks.

[LordMelvin]

Scout Derek, on 10 March 2016 - 11:55 AM, said:

I personally prefer my Orion IIC (O). 3 Mediums, 3 SRM 6+Artemis and a UAC/20, all with the largest ammo, 3 tons of srm ammo and 3 tons of UAC/20 ammo with the rest dedicated to DHS. Mwah. Perfecto.

Pic of my Orion IIC (O) by Lordred

That is a damn sexy shot. Might have to pick up a few Orion-IICs now.

[Wintersdark]

zagibu, on 11 March 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

No. I've made a thread about the IIc mechs and how ridiculously good (in theory) the combination of clan XL + battlemech flexibility is even before they came out, but everyone told me that they all suck or are mediocre at best, because they lack structure quirks. Apparently they melt like snow in the Sahara, or something. And the original IS pendants are SO MUCH BETTER, because they have quirks.

The only thing stopping the IIC mechs from being grossly OP is that they're based on rather mediocre IS mechs in the first place, and inherit all those mech's flaws.

But those flaws? They're not terribly crushing flaws. You've still got high-end-of-the-weight-class mechs with lots of available tonnage and lightweight Clan weapons. Sure, you may not have structural quirks, and those structural quirks are not inconsiderable, but keep in mind: The difference between a structural quirked mech and one without them is generally surviving for one additional alpha (and often without weapons) - that matters, for sure! But it's just one alpha. It's almost always better to do more damage than take more.

The agility quirks are far more significant (particularly comparing the Highlanders) but even then, the IIC mechs are still very strong offerings.

If I had to put money on a ON1-IIC or IS ON1? It'd be on the IIC every time.

Same comparing Highlanders, or Hunchbacks.

And that's considering quirks.