24 replies to this topic

[GuardDogg]

Yes, been reading/hearing these since MWO was beta. Three lances of 4 mechs for two teams. When the battle starts, all three will group together, then things start getting really messy. Chaos starts to happen. Pilots banging into each other, friendly fire, mechs in the way, trying to get around.

So in all, their is no strategy, but staying as a group following someone. Then battle starts to happen. Later I will find myself alone, during a battle with a group. Everyone took off, with out communication, or their was no time to read, but focus on surviving. Their was times moving to a location from group, next thing I find I am the last one alive. Was hoping to pull enemy from one side to another away from team. And next thing the whole team blames you for not being in the battle, when in fact you have, that in he group, it was crowded, chaotic, friendly fire, no movement, obstacles in the way (hills, trees, friendlies), and you are being hit with constant LRMs. So, you move else where to help, finding yourself your the last guy alive (In a assault mech "Fresh"). How?!, do not let me explain why, and why I am over here, when in fact I was with group at the very start and in battle.

Their was no formation, no coordination, no strategy, but only to stay together, and hoping you do not wonder off, or left alone during battle, (everyone took off). So, when your the last guy alive for example: 6-11, you are blamed for their deaths, their mistakes. Your piloting an Assault (possibly fresh), would not make a difference if you did help. Because if you did, it would be 8-12, still a lose. Friendlies would been down the same exact way.

Battles are the same on every map "H9", every day, time. The whole team pulls to center or hill top. I never encountered a battle, where some one will call a lance to move here, and that lance go here, shut down and wait for a call to ambush from a pull, push,... Never. I tried many times, but team says their is no time for that. Just go to battle. Just stupid, and team doesn't follow. I get in trouble playing my way.

Edited by VeeDog, 11 March 2016 - 11:20 AM.

[Roughneck Cobra]

Helps make friends.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

The key is to death ball at their death ball than they death ball at your death ball.

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 11 March 2016 - 10:56 AM.

[Xavori]

...and then get shot in the back by teammates

[Mister Blastman]

HOLY WALL OF TEXT! ACH! MY EYES!


For the sake of readability, use paragraphs, please!

[Oberost]

Your wall of text really stay together...

Narcissistic Martyr, on 11 March 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

The key is to death ball at their death ball than they death ball at your death ball.

For God sake, you speak like our Prime Minister.

Edited by Oberost, 11 March 2016 - 11:00 AM.

[GuardDogg]

In all, Your never at fault for their deaths. They did the mistake.

[AlphaToaster]

The deathball works because of target saturation, combat loss groupings, slow movements speeds of most mechs, and you would think it's REALLY easy to get people to do that one thing rather than some complicated maneuver where some are fodder and some are the chosen ones.

A nearly fresh assault at the end of a loss is just a sad, sad waste of armor that could have saved the team. In your example of if you pushed the score would have just been 8/12 vs 7/11, that's not the right way to think about it. What if the one or two guys your assault took down did 1500 damage and 6 kills between them. Had you slowed their roll with your assaults armor, maybe instead the score would have been say, (maybe they only got 2 kills total so) maybe the score is now 7/7 and your team is in a better position to actually win overall.

[Cion]

VeeDog, on 11 March 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

valid points

• Blame N1 poor map design. Current maps encourage hide and peek gameplay.
  
• Formations tend to work better when there is no cover and open terrain. We have cover gallore and broken terrain.
  
• The lack of lance objectives are due to poor game design. Best and easiest objective is to kill as many mechs as possible, encouraging the deathball.
  
• This is further encouraged by the fact that we are assigned to 4 man lances, usually never 4 mechs of the same weight class or even the same speed. It's pointless to tell "lance Alpha go cap" when in lance Alpha you might have a Jenner, Cicada, Spider and a Zeus because even in a perfect 3/3/3/3 the weight classes bleed into different lances. Also a Spider pilots worlds appart than a Cicada.

So in summary, the game and it's lack of strategy, tactics, and variation are....(I hate to say it)...Working as intended.

I think i just threw up a bit.

Edited by Cion, 11 March 2016 - 01:34 PM.

[GuardDogg]

^^ Better than what I wrote. Good post. If I bug out from a group (even in an fresh Assault), their is prob a very good reason. It has to be with what is going on with the team, not me. I have gone out of my way (a lot) to save, protect team mates and lost, and my name ends up in the garbage.

[Felicitatem Parco]

The problem with splitting into Lance's is that your team will likely be fighting 4v12, followed by 4v12, followed by 4v12. In all 3 situations, a bad ratio of good guys to bad guys.

The only time splitting works well is if you reform a 12v12 afterwards. Be it by surrounding the enemy or whatever...

If they deathball, then you cannot "pick off the stragglers" or do other things that a small group can do on its own.

[LegendaryArticuno]

OP don't be part of the problem.

If you don't group up you automatically lose.

[Namwons]

This is why i dont pug in assaults anymore. I rather play solo in a light scout or medium flanker. I only bring out my assaults when in a coordinated team.

[Tier 1 Smurf]

Some times it is best to stand near friendlies. But not always. :shrug:
I just make sure if I do stand near other players to not be in front of them as often as possible. Seems if you do, that means they are behind you plotting how to best noob block you. And instead of shooting the baddies they are also beating each other off back there while you tank for them. So.. your choice.

[GuardDogg]

Grouping up, stay together appears to be the only tactic MWO players know. It gets boring, half the time, doesn't work. It is chaotic, friendly fire, always same play on each map "Center". If the tactic has formation, tactic.Then I, maybe others will join. Gets frustrating. I tried to change gameplay (making it more enjoyable, winnable) by being a commander, but 10 out of 12 will not follow. Then you get actual children playing (4 year olds), or drunks on your team. So you lose your tier. I have requested formation stuff inside MWO, oh gosh for years. Nothing yet. No one knows what echelon left/right is.

[GeoFalke]

the thing about lances not being organized is that people can take company command and reorganize lances to where assaults are with assaults, lights with lights, so on and so forth. the problem is that no one seems to want to take responsibility for organizing the lances into practical units and would just rather everyone hit READY and get the drop over with, which leads to the deathball effect.

Personally if I had more experience and could identify mechs by their model designation and not just their general name I'd definitely step up to the plate and try to get some semblence of unit cohesion going, but I'm still learning how to handle my own mechs.

TL;DR, if you're not going to take responsibility for organizing and leading the pugs, you don't have any right to complain about the tactics they decide to use.

[Ace Selin]

VeeDog, on 13 March 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

Grouping up, stay together appears to be the only tactic MWO players know. It gets boring, half the time, doesn't work. It is chaotic, friendly fire, always same play on each map "Center". If the tactic has formation, tactic.Then I, maybe others will join. Gets frustrating. I tried to change gameplay (making it more enjoyable, winnable) by being a commander, but 10 out of 12 will not follow. Then you get actual children playing (4 year olds), or drunks on your team. So you lose your tier. I have requested formation stuff inside MWO, oh gosh for years. Nothing yet. No one knows what echelon left/right is.

In group Q / FW where you trust the others to do as told, actual tactics may work. In solo where who knows whats gonna happen, deathball works - mostly

[Thunderbird Anthares]

Hey, we had a blast a bunch of times organizing an ambush...

But then again, we are the nasty backstabbin devious Liao, its in our nature.

USE YOUR DAMN VOICE COMMS AND TAKE COMMAND IF YOU HAVE A WORKABLE IDEA, or dont ***** afterwards.
That goes for everyone.

[El Bandito]

Pugs (especially those that are low tier ) have hard time keeping up with orders more complicated than "move there". So I tend to herd my pugmates to the most optimal position and then let them do their stuff. Occasionally some of them are good enough to shoot the called targets/UAVs within 2 seconds of the call.

[fat4eyes]

People do it because it works. It's one of the most basic of military tactics:

https://en.m.wikiped...e_concentration

It has worked for thousands of years and still works today.

What a lot of people fail to see though is that the purpose of staying together is for mutual support, not to hide behind teammates. When your teammate is getting shot at, your first instinct should be to shoot back, not to hide. That way you get fire superiority on the enemy, and get closer to victory.